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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    1) how is her bein an ally redundant, but making her a villain not? Especially, when she is yet another character who has gone from friend/acquaintance to enemy? Also, Doom's currently an ally for Tony in Iron Man.

    2) Felicia has made it crystal clear she has zero boundaries right now and that there are no lines she won't cross. If she's not as bad as Osborn or Octavuis she's getting close. She's attempt pyre kill Peter, as well as Aunt May and killed a scientist in Hawkeyes vs Deadpool.
    1. Her stale flirt thing has been a done over and over as well as her dark hero with a good conscious niche, plus anything morally rightous she does gets inconsistent when she does crime regardless and gets away with it(by either seducing Peter and making him forget she's a criminal or just being able to escape being caught from Spidey or the cops), it has no suspense in my eyes, it just makes her a poorly written anti hero, she feels like cartoonish sex symbol that isn't meant to taken seriously, Minerva Mink style. She now exploits a serious role and thrives away from being another Call Girl to Spider-Man and a link to more boring sexual tension with a guy who contrasts her in philosophies. How many of Spidey's friends has chosen consciously to do evil without being influenced by a corrupted force like Symboites or freaking goblin serum?

    2. Felicia has gone past the point of sympathy, but she's not at the level of Osborn level of depravity. She's just entered darkness in the same way Venom had, she's ruthless to a straight forward point, but at least these evil actions are tied to a purpose she can actually work towards and not out of pure sociopathy. I think this is the most unique way to build her stock as just more than just a catwoman expy and a subservient spiderman fangirl.

  2. #32
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Because it would be a massive quote-chain if I tried to quote everyone here who responded, I won't. I'll just be brief and say thanks to all the people who understood my point and express my apologies for not making that point clearly enough. To summarize, while some may have found Felicia's immediate pre-OMD/BND status quo boring, I thought it was a great example of character growth, showing that Felicia was more than just a pretty face, nice cleavage, and a flirty attitude, that there was an actual person underneath who had fears and hopes and dreams and regrets and was capable of genuine emotional attachment that outstripped her more selfish inclinations. When all that got dropped after OMD to regress her to a status quo that was more "fun," it had the effect of making her less compelling as a character and reducing her to little more than the superficial appeal I outlined earlier. Making her a full-blown villain with no limits to how far she'd go to get what she wanted might have been an attempt to make her more interesting in the eyes of Marvel, but all it did was highlight and exaggerate the self-centeredness that was her major character flaw in her earlier appearances to such a degree that it blotted out everything that made her appealing and likeable in the first place.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  3. #33
    Rachel Grey-Summers Sardorim's Avatar
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    Eh, I gave up on Web Warriors. The extreme Gwen focus at the cost of the rest of the cast killed the book in my opinion. If I wanted Gwen than I would read her solo.

  4. #34
    Amazing Member azalben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solletaire View Post
    Don't get me wrong... I love Spider-Woman's direction... but it was always puzzling why they chose Spider-Woman for this story when Jessica Jones already has a baby... Again, I am glad that our heroes are able to grow up and grow into new roles, but I have also noticed that, at least historically, superheroes or even supporting characters don't fare too well as parents. The parents in question either disappear from the main stage of events aka Jessica Jones and Tigra, lose their child aka Cyclops, Spider-Man and Wasp, or the child is somehow forgotten about and swept under the rug aka Jane Foster's son or the kids Pepper Potts adopted way back when... Even the Fantastic Four went through some pretty crazy stories aimed to age the kids on the team while not aging their parents... so did the X-Men...

    I guess I need more time to trust this story will end well and things will not revert to the status quo as soon as Dennis Hopeless goes exclusive for Image or something like that...
    I totally get what you're saying, and that's my concern as well - but there's more than one story you can tell as a parent, and the current one in Spider-Woman is superb. Will someone age up the baby or make it retcon out of existence years from now? Maybe. But for right now, as much as possible, just try to enjoy a superbly, emotionally written and jaw-droppingly drawn book.

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  5. #35
    Amazing Member azalben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seren View Post
    I think they have been doing a brilliant job with Jess.
    Same! I'm loving it so far.
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  6. #36
    Incredible Member Von's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azalben View Post
    I totally get what you're saying, and that's my concern as well - but there's more than one story you can tell as a parent, and the current one in Spider-Woman is superb. Will someone age up the baby or make it retcon out of existence years from now? Maybe. But for right now, as much as possible, just try to enjoy a superbly, emotionally written and jaw-droppingly drawn book.

    If you can
    I can, this run of Spider-Woman is stellar on all levels imo.

  7. #37
    Amazing Member azalben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    I can, this run of Spider-Woman is stellar on all levels imo.
    Agreed! We are best friends now.
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  8. #38
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    I miss Wacker.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyberhubbs View Post
    I really don't wanna read about a "mature" Black Cat. She helped him out during BND, but she still also did her own thing because, hey, it's fun and she digs thrills. And I usually hate that male characters have this effect on female characters where they learn they were really just always hurt on the inside and wanted nothing more than to settle down with a nice guy like him. Not everyone wants a family and a white picket fence and whatever society expects because we're a little older and we're supposed to "mature".
    I don't know why mature is being made to sound synonymous with settling down, but I'm pretty sure the argument being put forward is that it'd be preferred that Black Cat be multi-layered rather than one dimensional.
    ♪ღ♪*•.¸¸¸.•*¨ ¨*•.¸¸¸.•*•♪ღ♪¸.•*¨ ¨*•.¸¸¸.•*•♪ღ♪•*

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    I miss Wacker.



    I don't know why mature is being made to sound synonymous with settling down, but I'm pretty sure the argument being put forward is that it'd be preferred that Black Cat be multi-layered rather than one dimensional.
    .

    Agreed. The Queen Pin is an awful 1 Dimensional idea and it doesn't require much thought to know that. I mean Queen pin

    The only small ray of hope is the writers are acknowledging it's not popular "She's my favourite character so hopefully when Slott goes, this idea will go

  10. #40
    Amazing Member azalben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    I miss Wacker.



    I don't know why mature is being made to sound synonymous with settling down, but I'm pretty sure the argument being put forward is that it'd be preferred that Black Cat be multi-layered rather than one dimensional.
    I don't know if it's a "mature" Black Cat, so much as a "matured" Black Cat... She's still double dealing and doing her own thing, but she's pushed herself into a new phase of her life, going for no-care-in-the-world jewel thief to leading a group of criminals. We all change as we grow, and the team is letting the characters grow up, too. I get where you're coming from, but I'm interested to see what direction they take her.
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  11. #41
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    I do see what you're saying too and it's a very forgiving take, but I can't get behind it plainly because I don't consider regression as a sign of growth. What we've got right now is a poor man's 80's Black Cat with different window dressing, and honestly the defense from editorial that it's in character because she used to be that way thirty years ago is pretty weak and utterly depends on ignoring the added dimensions the character had gained through the mid 00's - where she was still cheeky and fun but also dependable and responsible. The character had already grown up thanks to far better characterization. No, the real factor as to why things are the way they are is because the Spidey office had carte blanche to repurpose anyone they wanted post BND, but why the powers-that-be would de-evolve a character back to a immature and spiteful one dimensional take and are deciding to double down on it is beyond me.
    I don't see any of her current characterisation as being much more than serving a necessary plot function and forcing a square peg in a round hole. I guess I can see how it'd be interesting, in the sense when you're morbidly watching a car crash you wait to see if the fire spreads to other vehicles.
    ♪ღ♪*•.¸¸¸.•*¨ ¨*•.¸¸¸.•*•♪ღ♪¸.•*¨ ¨*•.¸¸¸.•*•♪ღ♪•*

    ♪ღ♪░NORAH░WINTERS░FOR░SPIDER-WAIFU░♪ღ♪

    *•♪ღ♪*•.¸¸¸.•*¨ ¨*•.¸¸¸.•*•♪¸.•*¨ ¨*•.¸¸¸.•*•♪ღ♪•«

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