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  1. #166
    The Superior Spider-clone SpideyClone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMagus View Post





    Still not clear enough? To quote someone truly heroic... I've seen his "heroism." The only thing he really fights for is himself. He's not the guy to make the sacrifice play, to lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over him.
    .
    Did you read ASM # 800 by any chance? He literally threw himself in front of the Red Goblin daggers intended for Aunt May when there was no tactical advantage for him to do so. While you can argue it still doesn't make him a hero, it was a heroic act, and the door is open for more...

  2. #167
    The Superior Spider-clone SpideyClone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I think I'm more excited to see SpOck back than I am any other Spider featured on that cover. I'm giddy with anticipation.

    So, I wonder if the SpOck feature will be from an alternate universe where Otto kept Peter's body as well as the role of Spider-Man after Goblin Nation?
    I think it's more likely it's Otto's new proto-clone self, now Dr. Elliott Tolliver. A threat to all the spiders is also a threat to him, and they're more likely to accept his help as a Spider-man than an Octopus.
    That said, I'm hoping he's back as the Superior Octopus before long...

  3. #168
    World's Greatest Hero blackspidey2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    SpOck being back is the only thing that would make me read this event.
    I'm kinda glad SpOck is back, but I'll be super pissed if they give Ock the "scientist" role and conveniently forget that Peter is much smarter, like they did in the first Spider-Verse event.
    "Anyone can win a fight when the odds are easy! It's when the going's tough - when there seems to be no chance - that's when it counts!" - Spider-Man

  4. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    Did you read ASM # 800 by any chance? He literally threw himself in front of the Red Goblin daggers intended for Aunt May when there was no tactical advantage for him to do so. While you can argue it still doesn't make him a hero, it was a heroic act, and the door is open for more...
    No, I haven't gotten to that yet. Thanks for the spoiler.

    I think Slott just seems more interested in setting up SpOck to be a hero than Peter. He should have just stuck with writing his own spin-off instead of ASM.

    Also, he's not a hero. A hero doesn't risk the possibility of people dying in a burning building, or people getting shot in a mugging because he's too lazy to resolve the matter himself. Go read ASM 700.1-700.2, "Frost". That story reminds everyone what a true hero is.

    After talking to some guys over at Spider-Man Crawlspace forum, I retract my previous statement that SSM is satire. Nope. It's just exactly as it looked like, an edgy display of how SpOck is better than Peter. Go write about how awesome Otto Octavius really is some place else, Slott, just don't do it in a book called Amazing Spider-Man like you did even after SSM ended. It's like me coming to a Superior Spider-Man appreciation thread and s*** all over SpOck. Ironic, isn't it, Slott? Some might even call it karmic.
    Last edited by NelsonMagus; 06-10-2018 at 08:56 PM.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    SpOck being back is the only thing that would make me read this event.
    Him and Miguel are my 2 favorites. I can't wait to see SpOCK go to work again.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  6. #171
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    I wonder if this Otto is the present day Otto or a past version?
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  7. #172
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMagus View Post
    No, I haven't gotten to that yet. Thanks for the spoiler.

    I think Slott just seems more interested in setting up SpOck to be a hero than Peter. He should have just stuck with writing his own spin-off instead of ASM.

    Also, he's not a hero. A hero doesn't risk the possibility of people dying in a burning building, or people getting shot in a mugging because he's too lazy to resolve the matter himself. Go read ASM 700.1-700.2, "Frost". That story reminds everyone what a true hero is.

    After talking to some guys over at Spider-Man Crawlspace forum, I retract my previous statement that SSM is satire. Nope. It's just exactly as it looked like, an edgy display of how SpOck is better than Peter. Go write about how awesome Otto Octavius really is some place else, Slott, just don't do it in a book called Amazing Spider-Man like you did even after SSM ended. It's like me coming to a Superior Spider-Man appreciation thread and s*** all over SpOck. Ironic, isn't it, Slott? Some might even call it karmic.
    If you are referring to the mugging scene in Superior Spider-Man, Otto redirected it to the police because the Vulture was robbing MJ's nightclub. Otto is more of an Anti-Hero.

    I don't think it was "edgy" at all. Slott was showing how inefficient Peter can be with his hero work and Otto showed some minor changes that can be employed to make hero work more efficient. And even then, Slott balanced it by making Otto go over the top with some of his methods, he was still hindered by some of the problems Peter has that can make him less efficient as a hero and he still had some of Otto's more problematic character traits.

    Ultimately, this is an appreciation thread for the Superior Spider-Man, so if you have any grievances, you should probably make a new thread.
    PLUS ULTRA!

  8. #173
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post
    I'm kinda glad SpOck is back, but I'll be super pissed if they give Ock the "scientist" role and conveniently forget that Peter is much smarter, like they did in the first Spider-Verse event.
    Yeah, I agree.
    PLUS ULTRA!

  9. #174
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Also, the fact that Slott was developing Phil Urich's story since he started Big Time and how Phil being exposed would effect Nora, Robbie and Ben. And the impact of Smyth's execution came from the fact that J Jonah Jameson ordered the execution and how Jonah's wife's death effected Jonah.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 06-11-2018 at 03:14 PM.
    PLUS ULTRA!

  10. #175

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    A chain of posts were deleted.

    Discuss the topic, and not the other guy.

    Appreciation threads are also not the place for contentious back and forth arguments on the thing being appreciated.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  11. #176
    Mighty Member Johnny Peril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post
    I'm kinda glad SpOck is back, but I'll be super pissed if they give Ock the "scientist" role and conveniently forget that Peter is much smarter, like they did in the first Spider-Verse event.
    I have to respectfully disagree with that.
    "The world is coming to an end. So where would you rather die? Here? Or in a Jaeger?"

  12. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMagus View Post
    Okay, so I have an apology to make, both to @Michael Watkins and to every fan of Superior Spider-Man. I was at best rude and at worst passive-aggressive, and I'm sorry. Furthermore, after some reflection, I realized that Watkins and @Inversed might actually be right about me being wrong after all. Because of my review on Superior, I've been starting to think about whether if Superior Spider-Man was just a satirical take on violence being a solution.

    In my defense, it's not exactly a clear subtext. Most satire isn't.

    I've said before that my review wasn't going to be scathing, and now with this new information, I think it might even be a positive one for all I know. I don't know. I've been working on it for days now, and I'm not even halfway done yet since I'll also be covering Superior Team-Up and Superior Foes in the same review to parallel the three different writers' take on the entire saga (Superior Foes is included because I want to talk about his depiction of a likable villain).

    Anyway, I understand if you still hate me for it, but there it is. Peace.
    I know you retracted the satire argument later, but that wasn't quite the right word, even though a big part of the story was to show the power of Spider-Man in the wrong hands. A satire is about ridicule and shaming, and Superior Spider-Man wasn't that.

    I wrote this elsewhere during Superior Spider-Man, but I think it was like a cover song.



    A potential argument against Marvel demoting Peter Parker to a supporting character is that a similar story could be done without the new protagonist taking the place of the most popular character. Doctor Octopus could become a hero in his own title, without Marvel artificially inflating sales by making his book the new Spider-Man title. So that got me thinking about the appeal of new characters in old roles. And it hit me: Superior Spider-Man is like a cover song.

    You have some familiar elements, like the power set, supporting cast and the rogues gallery. But there’s a twist to it. He’ll use his abilities differently. In the same setting with the same tools, he’ll respond to supporting characters and guest stars in ways that Peter Parker never would.

    So it’s like hearing a new version of a song you like. The Jimi Hendrix version of “All Along the Watchtower,” the Bruce Springsteen version of “Chimes of Freedom” and The Byrds version of “Mr. Tambourine Man” bring a new energy to songs that were pretty good when Bob Dylan sang them. Johnny Cash’s cover of “Solitary Man” presents a new way of considering Neil Diamond’s lyrics. Cash’s “Hurt” and “I Hung My Head” have supplanted the originals, though Spider-Ock is unlikely to replace Peter Parker in quite the same way.

    “I Want to Hold Your Hand” is a fantastic song. But the version from Across the Universe is a revelation, even if it’s not quite on the same level. It causes you to consider the music from an entirely different perspective. The Beatles were always going to get the girl, but what if the song comes from someone who doesn’t have a chance?



    With someone else in Peter’s shoes, we get new insights into Spider-Man and his world. When Spock knocked Scorpion’s jaw off, it was a reminder of what happens when that power is in the wrong hands. Slott has spoken of the meta aspects of the story, and how he flipped the board, so that the world trusts Spider-Man again, but the reader is more than suspicious. He’s exploring major themes in the Spider-Man comics from a new angle.

    In comics, this has previously worked best in Ed Brubkaer’s Captain America and Morrison’s Batman and Robin. The former featured Bucky going through the same things Steve Rogers went through in the Silver Age, as he fought to avenge his partner, and got used to modern life when so much had changed since World War 2. In the latter, Dick Grayson became the new Batman while Damian Wayne, son of Bruce Wayne and Talia Al Ghul, became the new Robin. That was probably the most fun, just because of how different Damian Wayne was from Batman’s earlier sidekicks. Morrison also inverted the relationship, so that he had a Robin much grimmer than Batman. When Bruce Wayne returned as Batman, Tomasi and Gleason have used Batman and Robin to explore what had previously been a master-apprentice partnership as a true father-son relationship. The Damian Wayne Robin was also a welcome addition to the Teen Titans.

    One of the things that makes supervillains who have the same powers as the hero so interesting is the ability to feature similar situations with different characters. The Evil Counterparts use their abilities in ways that the hero never would. Moriarity shows readers what would happen if Sherlock Holmes used his mind for nefarious purposes. The Abomination demonstrates what the Hulk is capable of if he actually was what he was assumed to be. Writers and artists usually just pit the hero against their dark mirror, but it could be interesting to have heroes fight twisted versions of their allies. The Justice League should sometimes fight evil Kryptonians without Superman’s help.

    A cover song doesn’t replace the original, except perhaps in the case of Johnny Cash’s “Hurt.” But it can add to one’s appreciation of it. That could happen here. An interesting wrinkle with Superior Spider-Man is that Peter Parker is still around as a bystander. So he gets to see Spider-Man in action from the outside. The character may learn a few things when he eventually regains control of his body.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  13. #178
    World's Greatest Hero blackspidey2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Peril View Post
    I have to respectfully disagree with that.
    How so. I mean even Slott, Doc Ock's biggest fan, literally made that clear as explicitly as possible more than once.
    "Anyone can win a fight when the odds are easy! It's when the going's tough - when there seems to be no chance - that's when it counts!" - Spider-Man

  14. #179
    Mighty Member Johnny Peril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post
    How so. I mean even Slott, Doc Ock's biggest fan, literally made that clear as explicitly as possible more than once.
    I think it best if another thread is created for this.
    Last edited by Johnny Peril; 06-11-2018 at 07:21 PM.
    "The world is coming to an end. So where would you rather die? Here? Or in a Jaeger?"

  15. #180
    The Superior Spider-clone SpideyClone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMagus View Post
    No, I haven't gotten to that yet. Thanks for the spoiler.

    I think Slott just seems more interested in setting up SpOck to be a hero than Peter. He should have just stuck with writing his own spin-off instead of ASM.

    Also, he's not a hero. A hero doesn't risk the possibility of people dying in a burning building, or people getting shot in a mugging because he's too lazy to resolve the matter himself. Go read ASM 700.1-700.2, "Frost". That story reminds everyone what a true hero is.

    After talking to some guys over at Spider-Man Crawlspace forum, I retract my previous statement that SSM is satire. Nope. It's just exactly as it looked like, an edgy display of how SpOck is better than Peter. Go write about how awesome Otto Octavius really is some place else, Slott, just don't do it in a book called Amazing Spider-Man like you did even after SSM ended. It's like me coming to a Superior Spider-Man appreciation thread and s*** all over SpOck. Ironic, isn't it, Slott? Some might even call it karmic.
    My apologies for mentioning that scene, I assumed you were a current reader as well.

    Regarding SSM's elevation of Otto Octavius and your feeling towards that, I thought that you would have seen by SSM 30-31, that the whole point of the SSM arc was that Peter Parker is the "Superior" Spider-man. Otto may have done some things better, but failed at many more, as was evident by Goblin Nation. Only Peter Parker could have won that final battle, and how and why he did is what sets him above Otto.

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