The Superior Spider-Man Appreciation Thread 2018

[KC]

So, after the events of spoilers:

Amazing Spider-Man #800

end of spoilers, what do you think will happen next for Otto?

spoilers:

Will he go back to being The Superior Spider-Man, based on that last image? I like him as The Superior Octopus. He should keep the look but go back to being his great anti-hero self. Hopefully he gets his own book!

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I would love it if this lead to a new book about Otto as an anti-hero. I think Slott is going to use what he built here in Iron Man of Fantastic Four, and I am sure he could launch a book from what he does next. With him using resources from Horizon again and Anna Maria suspecting that the new Horizon Scientist is Otto.

end of spoilers

[Obsidian Spider]

Didn’t Otto take something like a cosmic cube fragment or something during his Hydra Avengers time?

[Obsidian Spider]

JUst found it. He stole one of Black Ant’s Pym Particle containers. We’ll see if that comes up again.

I’d bet that Slott starts a Superior Octopus series by the end of the year. Superior Spidey sales must have been good so Marvel would want to capitalize on that. Plus the supporting cast is great and Spidey fans must miss Anna Maria and the Horizon crew.

Who else is in SAN Francisco these days? There’s going to be a new West Coast Avengers series coming soon. Lots of possibilities.

If Peter isn’t going to be doing the science thing as much, I’d love to see Otto continue down that road.

[blackspidey2099]

If Peter isn’t going to be doing the science thing as much, I’d love to see Otto continue down that road.

Honestly this is one of the reasons I’m no longer interested in Spencer’s run. I guess Dan spoiled me with Horizon Labs and Parker Industries, because now I absolutely can’t read anything with Peter not as a scientist. It just doesn’t make sense.

Anyways, I’d be down to see a new Superior Spidey series with Slott on writing duties. Chris Yost also wrote an amazing (heh) Superior Spidey.

[Batman Begins 2005]

I miss the Superior Spider-Man era. I've said the following before, check out Christopher Yost's Spock issues in Avenging Spider-Man and Superior Spider-Man Team-Up as he writes the character better than anybody.

[Batman Begins 2005]

Did anybody get the limited edition Superior Spider-Man Funko POP? I was able to despite difficulties.

[MP95]

I miss the Superior Spider-Man era. I've said the following before, check out Christopher Yost's Spock issues in Avenging Spider-Man and Superior Spider-Man Team-Up as he writes the character better than anybody.

Chris Yost was great at writing Superior Spider-Man. I love that era in general. Dan Slott, Christos Gage, Kevin Shinick and Chris Yost all did a great job writing Otto in those situations.

[Michael Watkins]

can't wait to see what Otto does next. I'm rooting for Anna Maria to give him another shot.

[NelsonMagus]

Let me emphasize something... SpOck will never be a hero. Believe all you want. It AIN'T happening. Put SpOck in a spider-suit or showing off his stupid Spider-bots in EVERY message board avatar in the world. Still never happening. Ever. Ever. Ever. I'm sure I'll be here next year telling you the same thing. Not happening. Over a quarter of a century has been spent by Marvel to define what a true hero is. It ain't happening. Sorry. Ever.

This isn't a "let's argue about it" or "let's debate about it". This is fact. This is in stone. There is no administration in the near or distant future that will ever reinstate SpOck as a true hero in Superior Spider-Man EVER. Could he be redeemed by other writers in the future? Yes. That could happen. Could there be an alternate continuity where Doc Ock was never a villain and merely helped humanity with his intellect? You bet. And I wouldn't mind paying to see that. Will his actions in SSM be considered heroic? Never. Is there some future person out there who loves SpOck and will someday wind up a creator or editor at Marvel? Could happen. Will he be able to reinstate SpOck as a hero? No. A person who believes that's a scenario that could happen does not have a proper grasp on what the definition of "hero" means. That's the reality of the situation.

It's not happening. Ever. It's never, ever going to happen. There is no person, no matter how passionately they cared about the SSM setup who could ever make it through all the steps and paces to get to a position of editorial power AND change the foundation of what Spider-Man and true heroism really mean. There is no lottery ticket BIG enough that anyone could win it, buy Marvel, and make this ludicrous notion happen. It's NEVER, EVER, EVER coming about. No matter how much Slott wants it. It ain't happening. There is NO possible path to this.

Still not clear enough? To quote someone truly heroic... I've seen his "heroism." The only thing he really fights for is himself. He's not the guy to make the sacrifice play, to lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over him. If there's a fire, he would just phone for the firemen, risking the possibility that they might not be able to save everyone. That's somehow more "superior" than what Peter did, naively trying to save everyone trapped in that burning building. If there's a mugging, he would just phone for the cops, risking the possibility of another Ben Parker dead on the streets. SpOck might not have been a threat, but Slott better stop pretending he's a hero.

If you need a reminder of why Peter was truly the superior Spider-Man, go read ASM #700.2 and how he saved the people trapped in the burning building instead of just calling it in and forget about it. Oh yeah, and it wasn't written by Slott. Big surprise.

[Inversed]

Thing is, you could probably replace every instance of SpOck in that post with Venom and it would make the exact same sense. And look where Venom is now, and has been for the past decades.

He's not a hero, he's an anti-hero, and there is a big market for those kinds of characters, and they can be extremely compelling when written well. It's the difference from say, Doctor Doom as Iron Man, who was a villain, but is trying to be a genuine hero, Otto is someone who acts for himself and puts his goals as top priority, but at the end of the day will do the right thing, which is essentially the definition of an anti-hero.

[NelsonMagus]

and they can be extremely compelling when written well.

"When written well," yes. For at least half of Superior, however, SpOck was Slott's pet character where everything went right for him because he wanted to prove how SpOck was somehow better than Peter. It was a boring insertion of a Gary-Stu. There wasn't an actual conflict in the book 'till as late as #17, when 2099 showed up and SpOck finally couldn't juggle the responsibilities he claimed he could have handled better than Peter.

SpOck coming off as a pet character is also why his relationship with Anna Maria is so creepy. Not because she's a little person or whatever (I liked her as a character on her own), but because it felt like Slott's self-insert fantasy, picturing himself with his idealized version of women with "inner beauty." If Slott was so intent on putting Peter through suffering, why not put SpOck through the same thing in SSM? Because he favored SpOck over Peter.

[Inversed]

"When written well," yes. For at least half of Superior, however, SpOck was Slott's pet character where everything went right for him because he wanted to prove how SpOck was somehow better than Peter. It was a boring insertion of a Gary-Stu. There wasn't an actual conflict in the book 'till as late as #17, when 2099 showed up and SpOck finally couldn't juggle the responsibilities he claimed he could have handled better than Peter.

SpOck coming off as a pet character is also why his relationship with Anna Maria is so creepy. Not because she's a little person or whatever (I liked her as a character on her own), but because it felt like Slott's self-insert fantasy, picturing himself with his idealized version of women with "inner beauty." If Slott was so intent on putting Peter through suffering, why not put SpOck through the same thing in SSM? Because he favored SpOck over Peter.

But that's the whole point of the book. Make it seem like SpOck was in fact "superior" to Peter with everything going right for him, until it slowly starts to unravel and then he realizes he was wrong. The conflict is instead seeing how Otto reacts to the mundane things Peter deals with, and making sure no one figures out who he is.

And your assumption with Anna Maria is just completely wrong, because that theme of "inner beauty" has ALWAYS been there anytime Otto has been romantically involved with another character.

[Frontier]

Thing is, you could probably replace every instance of SpOck in that post with Venom and it would make the exact same sense. And look where Venom is now, and has been for the past decades.

He's not a hero, he's an anti-hero, and there is a big market for those kinds of characters, and they can be extremely compelling when written well. It's the difference from say, Doctor Doom as Iron Man, who was a villain, but is trying to be a genuine hero, Otto is someone who acts for himself and puts his goals as top priority, but at the end of the day will do the right thing, which is essentially the definition of an anti-hero.

I think the difference between Venom and SpOck is that Brock, in his own warped way, does have a genuine sense of justice.

Otto, as you said yourself, is someone who acts for himself and who's justice only regards what is "right" or "wrong" for him. I don't think at the end of the day he would do the right thing unless it still benefited him somehow, not out of any sense of altruism or heroism.

SpOck coming off as a pet character is also why his relationship with Anna Maria is so creepy. Not because she's a little person or whatever (I liked her as a character on her own), but because it felt like Slott's self-insert fantasy, picturing himself with his idealized version of women with "inner beauty." If Slott was so intent on putting Peter through suffering, why not put SpOck through the same thing in SSM? Because he favored SpOck over Peter.

I thought it was creepy because it was a relationship built mostly on lies.

[NelsonMagus]

But that's the whole point of the book. Make it seem like SpOck was in fact "superior" to Peter with everything going right for him, until it slowly starts to unravel and then he realizes he was wrong. The conflict is instead seeing how Otto reacts to the mundane things Peter deals with, and making sure no one figures out who he is.

And your assumption with Anna Maria is just completely wrong, because that theme of "inner beauty" has ALWAYS been there anytime Otto has been romantically involved with another character.

Well, it was less an assumption and more of a feeling, a vibe really, that came from my prior assertion that SpOck was a pet character.

But anyway, your description of "how Otto reacts to the mundane things Peter deals with" still doesn't change my mind about how boring the book was for the first-half. That wasn't even remotely conflict. That was Slott setting up SpOck's new status quo. That was contrived comic book writing at its basest and most conventional level, setting up a new character's status quo.

Also, "making sure no one figure out who he really is"? He didn't have to because The Avengers (and MJ) were acting like complete idiots who should have been smart enough to figure out who he was early on. Slott's poor handling of their intelligence was contrived and forced.

Let's take a look at another character with ambiguous morals: Light Yagami from Death Note. I once compared Superior Spider-Man to Death Note because both starred egomaniacs who wanted to change the world according to their own superior ideals. The difference is that one was entertaining because there was a constant barrage of conflict that forced the main character to display his brilliance and intelligence, while the other was just setting up the status quo. The taking down of Phil Urich and Horizon Labs, the removal of Ghost-Peter, and whatever killing Smythe was supposed to be (the actual killing of Smythe was even rushed! It happened so briefly in a single panel, when the fact of Spider-Man killing yet another villain should have a bigger focus). SpOck should never have been comfortable with his status quo, much like how Light's own status quo was constantly challenged.

#25 was the most entertaining read to me since #10 because SpOck finally unleashed his full power against The Avengers as The Superior Venom. After #10, SpOck kinda stopped showing off his intelligence, and the story felt a lot more like SpOck was cleaning up the city of its criminals like a maid. Setting up Spider-Island was great, but where's the brilliance in that? It's simply what Otto did back in the day as a villain, setting up his own super villain base and hiring his own henchmen. Boring. I could only wonder how much better the rest of the book would be compared to the past issues (I haven't finished the entire thing yet).

And you know what? This is all beside the point. Whether if SpOck was a more effective Spider-Man or not, he's still a murdering psychopath who threatened to wipe out the entire Earth. You expect my kids to look up to that sick son of a b**** who fantasized about having sex with MJ without her proper consent (which is an obvious contradiction of Otto's desire for inner beauty, by the way), who compared himself to Hitler? No thank you. If SpOck had some kind of redemption arc where he showed remorse on the crimes and murders he've committed, I might have liked the character a little, but as it is, I have no love for this piece of s***.

And going back to his desire to wipe out the Earth, why would he concern himself with the fate of others when he wanted to wipe off the Earth? In all of my reading of Superior Spider-Man, SpOck's motivation never made any actual sense to me, why he wanted to be a hero, why he cared about others. I wish Slott had developed his motivation a little better instead of busying himself with SpOck's pointless gloating.

[Inversed]

If you didn't like the series, I completely understand and that's all your opinion, stuff like the Avengers and the other friends and family not being able to figure out whats going on I think is a problem too.

But what you're saying is they're trying to make us see Otto as a hero and I absolutely don't think that was the intention at all. Your kids aren't supposed to look up to him, he has done lots of terrible things and hasn't done enough to truly redeem him. But he has still done some good things, and that's why he would classify as an anti-hero, someone like Venom, who we don't necessarily root for all the time, but are still interested to follow along to see what he does next. And that's why I personally overall enjoyed the series, because I thought he was a compelling character to want to read along to.