Remakes/Re-Adaptations - Better, Worse, Just As Good

[Gray Lensman]

The 1939 movie remake of the 1925 Wizard of Oz movie has to be the best remake ever in the history of film.

And technically, the Heston starring 10 Commandments and Ben-Hur films were both remakes as well - with the 10 Commandments being remade by it's own original director.

[Osiris-Rex]

And technically, the Heston starring 10 Commandments and Ben-Hur films were both remakes as well - with the 10 Commandments being remade by it's own original director.

But the original Ben-Hur wasn't all that bad. The chariot race was every bit as good. The 1925 Wizard of Oz was pretty bad even by 1925 standards. I realize the technology 15 years later was going to get better, but the story itself just didn't capture the magic of the Oz books

[Totoro Man]

that 2013 "Evil Dead" remake was actually pretty good.

[Surf]

and I think the 90s Captain America is still better than First Avenger even if no one else does.

Wait, what? The one with Ronny Cox? What do you mean by 'better' because I think on the films basic criteria of execution, OF IT'S OWN DAMN STORY, is poor let alone of the actual character- that fell on it's ass from the jump. If better is a more fun watch, then the Reb Brown Cap's got that beat too. Tell me there is a high level of personal sentiment behind this statement i.e. my personal affinity for the Lundgren Punisher. Tell me Ronny Cox signed a VHS copy of this...this, ah, film? Tell me you're baiting me or at least explain why this isn't the worst superhero adaptation ever. Tell me the unholy trinity of bad superhero movies isn't 1990 Cap, Shumacher B&R and Quest for Peace. I think you owe the board and to a larger degree me, an explanation sir.

Better:
1. The Thing (1982)

3. The Fly (1986)

'Better' just doesn't call it for these two, they are heads and shoulders the head of the class. You win the challenge, couldn't agree more.

[Siddon]

Five Remakes/New Adaptations That Are Better Than the Earlier
1 True Grit
2 Departed
3 The Letter
4 Mad love
5 The Omega Man


Five Remakes/New Adaptations That Are Just as Good as the Earlier
1 Outland
2 House on Haunted Hill
3 Body Snatchers
4 The Man Who Knew Too Much
5 The Ring


Five Remakes/New Adaptations That Are Bad movies and Worse than the Earlier
1 Nightmare on Elm Street
2 Godzilla (1998)
3 The Fog
4 Day of the Dead
5 Breathless

Five Remakes/New Adaptations that are good but worse than the original
1. Heaven Can Wait
2. Point of No Return
3. The Killers
4. I Am Legend
5. Night of the Living Dead

[Zero Hunter]

Does Star Trek really count as a 'remake' though? Although it mostly takes place in an alternate universe, it has continuity with the other shows and films via old Spock and the future Romulans; and many of the events of the film-Kirk's academy years for example-were never portrayed in any Trek lore, just mentioned (Although Spock's Vulcan past was heavily inspired by an episode of the animated series) although in the movie they presumabely unfolded a bit differently due to Kirk having a father. So it's kind of more a sequel/reboot than a direct remake.

That is thing. To be a fair comparison you would have to compare the new Star Trek to Star Trek the Motion Picture since both were the first movies in their franchises. If you do then new Trek wins by a country mile because Star Trek the Motion Picture was just a mess of a film.

[Gray Lensman]

That is thing. To be a fair comparison you would have to compare the new Star Trek to Star Trek the Motion Picture since both were the first movies in their franchises. If you do then new Trek wins by a country mile because Star Trek the Motion Picture was just a mess of a film.

They didn't call it "The Slow Motion Picture" for nothing. And that's a name I learned from my Trek convention going friends.

[tjarvis]

Because remakes and new adaptations get a bad rap, and I think the 90s Captain America is still better than First Avenger even if no one else does. I started thinking about how many times we talk about it, here or anywhere, without establishing - as it were - the playing field. So, in your opinion, three categories, no particular ranking to 1-5...


Five Remakes/New Adaptations That Are Just as Good as the Earlier
1 Halloween 2, inasmuch as it's a remake

To this day, that's one of the few movies that makes me mad I spent money on it. The original isn't some kind of beloved classic, but the remake was a incomprehensible mess of concepts that frankly don't make any kind of narrative sense what so ever.

[Coin Biter]

The 90s Captain America certainly has a much better Red Skull than Hugo Weaving's. The captured/tormented Italian child really was a very good idea, and I'd have been happy if hew was in the comics.

A Fistful of Dollars, though, is a decent film, but it pales in comparison to its progenitor Yojimbo, it really does.

Dredd, which has cropped up, is not a remake, nor is it a re-adaptation in the sense that the Maltese Falcoln is. I don't mind the Stallone Dredd too much, which is a tad underrated, but the Urban Dredd is a better film, if only because it doesn't make the foolish error of trying to make Dredd a conventionally sympathetic hero. The Stallone movie even gave him a love interest, for God's sake

[t hedge coke]

Wait, what? The one with Ronny Cox? What do you mean by 'better' because I think on the films basic criteria of execution, OF IT'S OWN DAMN STORY, is poor let alone of the actual character- that fell on it's ass from the jump. If better is a more fun watch, then the Reb Brown Cap's got that beat too. Tell me there is a high level of personal sentiment behind this statement i.e. my personal affinity for the Lundgren Punisher. Tell me Ronny Cox signed a VHS copy of this...this, ah, film? Tell me you're baiting me or at least explain why this isn't the worst superhero adaptation ever. Tell me the unholy trinity of bad superhero movies isn't 1990 Cap, Shumacher B&R and Quest for Peace. I think you owe the board and to a larger degree me, an explanation sir.

The Red Skull was a fascist bastard who was both sick in the head and had become a long term untouchable threat who looked messed up. Cap was honest and true and kind and feigned carsickness to avoid hitting people who didn't need to be hit. The scene when he gets to Bernie and she's old and all breaks my heart. Cap was Cap for ten seconds and he inspired a boy to become the President while saving America. "She didn't know a lot about camouflage, but she sure loved the red, white, and blue," about the costume. And the shield stuff blew my mind as a kid. Not just the throws and ricochets, but the badass catches and how it's used as a symbol, too. Captain America is a shield in that movie and I really appreciate that.

And, plot? Yeah, there are plot holes. But, First Avenger has brilliant tactical strategy like "we'll go in through the front," and "I'll get captured and taken to this place we can't possibly predict so you can slide down that cable into that place we couldn't have predicted and we'll continue the battle from inside!" The plot mechanics and the rise and fall tonally, in First Avenger, is all over the place. Winter Soldier's a good fight movie, with good, clear missions and all, but I wish it'd either been a political movie as advertised or not sell itself so hard as one, because no.

I like the new movies, but Cap always seems to have an ax to grind that taints his selflessness and good intentions. Given my druthers, I druther see Cap being good than Cap trying to prove himself against the tallest man in the room over and over again.

[Zero Hunter]

The 90s Captain America certainly has a much better Red Skull than Hugo Weaving's. The captured/tormented Italian child really was a very good idea, and I'd have been happy if hew was in the comics.

Wait ........ WHAT?!?!? That movie was soooooooo bad and the Red Skull was a major part of why it was so bad. It was garbage. You can honestly with a straight face say that was better than Weavings Red Skull?

[t hedge coke]

Wait ........ WHAT?!?!? That movie was soooooooo bad and the Red Skull was a major part of why it was so bad. It was garbage. You can honestly with a straight face say that was better than Weavings Red Skull?

I could. With a straight face, while drawing an explanatory diagram. And, not just because Weaving's was pretty weak, which it - subjectively - was.

[batnbreakfast]

I could. With a straight face, while drawing an explanatory diagram. And, not just because Weaving's was pretty weak, which it - subjectively - was.

But... but he's Elrond (and V, too)
Maybe Weaving just didn't get the material to really shine. Cap needs the Red Skull and the Skull is really just a racist bastard. I really like Evan's portrayal, though. He just works as that decent/good guy/too boring for most hero. The first (Evans) movie has that timeless feel and I'd place it next to Baldwin's The Shadow (I love the Shadow, sue me)

[t hedge coke]

But... but he's Elrond (and V, too)
Maybe Weaving just didn't get the material to really shine. Cap needs the Red Skull and the Skull is really just a racist bastard. I really like Evan's portrayal, though. He just works as that decent/good guy/too boring for most hero. The first (Evans) movie has that timeless feel and I'd place it next to Baldwin's The Shadow (I love the Shadow, sue me)

I think Evans did way better with what he was given than many would, in that first movie. We're lucky to have him all over so many comics things (he's my third favorite Casey Jones and still, that feels like praise to me; we're all biased on these things). He really sells that direct earnestness so well.

[Surf]

The Red Skull was a fascist bastard who was both sick in the head and had become a long term untouchable threat who looked messed up.

The 90s Captain America certainly has a much better Red Skull than Hugo Weaving's. The captured/tormented Italian child really was a very good idea, and I'd have been happy if hew was in the comics.

I can dig that, motivationally and thematically character wise. First Avenger's Skull was just kind of to be be accepted with little background. As a long time comic fan our points of view through familiarity can get skewed exposition wise in the movie translations so I can dig that. Now understand me, that there is no actually comparing the two movies on really any front past face value and I'm not here to beat the First Avenger drum. Only to understand why (not a normal why either, a Nancy Kerrigan pipe to the knee type whyyyy) anyone, would beat the 1990 Cap drum, feel me.

I gotta say though, Weaving's Skull in sheer presence and visually was pretty damned cool. So good that the on screen composite of all of it all; the face reveal, the Hydra interactions, the third act plane scene- and this does account for the lack of background, is more than enough to eclipse the impact of the 1990 Skull, so. I'll even go as so far to say, at the very least it's the most Kirby-esque visual we've ever seen in the MCU (and likely to- although maybe there is hope due to the Ditko inspired Spider-Man in the CW trailer).

Cap was honest and true and kind and feigned carsickness to avoid hitting people who didn't need to be hit.
...And the shield stuff blew my mind as a kid. Not just the throws and ricochets, but the badass catches and how it's used as a symbol, too. Captain America is a shield in that movie and I really appreciate that.

I like the new movies, but Cap always seems to have an ax to grind that taints his selflessness and good intentions. Given my druthers, I druther see Cap being good than Cap trying to prove himself against the tallest man in the room over and over again.

Yea, so about the bolded, lol he went to the well TWICE. Then proceeded to steal the woman's car. I don't quite feel how superhero-y that was but you have to agree it was more of a wtf?! moment then anything else right. Man that undersized fiberglass shield just didn't do it for me, I mean this is (albeit right before) post Batman 1989. It was charming as hell, I guess but that was kind of a weak effort of a movie prop to represent the larger symbol narrative though.

IDK, maybe Evans's Steve Rogers has notes to play a type with short man syndrome, I mean he is playing a guy from the 1940's. Bullies back then were more physical than verbal, this is me guessing on that. Not for nothin' there were many a movie where Cagney convincingly played up to that type as well. As far as the ratio of ax grinding to good dude, I don't know what a reflection of that of a super soldier brought back from the 40's put into the 60's or 1970's is gonna be different than a guy brought back 40 more years tacked on to that, if that's sweaty enough for ya.

And, plot? Yeah, there are plot holes. But, First Avenger has brilliant tactical strategy like

Aright, we don't have to pull down one to prop up another right now. I get all of that but I will add that Joe Johnston's efforts as far as the propaganda of the Cap character went were some of the best parts of the film. The musical number, Tucci was great as the scientist as a prop for discovering the virtue of Rogers, the appearance of the Howling Commandos, him getting booed in front of the soldiers in the field, those parts worked really well. Can't leave out that they got the physical shield right, right? When Evans puts that joint behind his back...forgetaboutit.

Winter Soldier's a good fight movie, with good, clear missions and all, but I wish it'd either been a political movie as advertised or not sell itself so hard as one, because no.

A great fight movie and I do agree with that. I don't get this whole angle of some type of political thriller either, that only speaks to the film background and presence Redford brought. As a viewer we weren't even presented with any layer of government other than this 'council' Redford quasi answers too, It's not even like they had some scrappy civilian character thrown into the mix who discovered or even was aware of the Hydra infiltration of S.H.I.E.L.D. If that' my only gripe and it is, then it's still a very sold picture to me.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread btw.