When is DC going to actually USE the multiverse?

[Lairston]

Do people actually understand the concept of dividing the audience into groups that are so small they don't produce the minimum sales to make a book profitable?

Or that the purpose of crossovers and other events is actually to get people to buy more comics than they normally do?

which is why I said it would probably be too much.

Yes that's the purpose. A purpose that doesn't usually convince me to do so. I think i bought one of the Crisis minis one time. Forget which one.

[CaptCleghorn]

Do people actually understand the concept of dividing the audience into groups that are so small they don't produce the minimum sales to make a book profitable?

Or that the purpose of crossovers and other events is actually to get people to buy more comics than they normally do?

Do people understand that most people's likes are not dictated by what's best for the company?

[JackDaw]

Do people actually understand the concept of dividing the audience into groups that are so small they don't produce the minimum sales to make a book profitable?

Or that the purpose of crossovers and other events is actually to get people to buy more comics than they normally do?

Yes, I think large majority of us understand idea that cross overs and other events have purpose of selling more comics.

And...often...in short term they do just that.

But a fair number of us suspect it gives DC (and Marvel) a short term boost, but at a cost of alienating some of their potential readers....and that their long term effect of all the "marketing cleverness" is a long term sales decline.

Here's my "personal story". I read a wide variety of fiction...crime, fantasy, historical fiction, SF, and even the odd serious literary fiction. But also potentially love my fix of mainstream super hero comics...done right it's great escapist entertainment. Up to 2 years ago I bought anything from a dozen to a score DC and Marvel comics a month...just getting those where I liked the writer/ artist/ character combos.

Eventually it dawned on me that:-
1/ DC changed writer with monotonous regularity.
2/ That often comic I bought was quite often difficult to follow without buying ones I'd got little interest in...that cross-overs and "special" events came around very often.

So DC made it difficult for me to follow a favourite writer. And even if a favourite writer did stay on a comic for a reasonable length of time, there would be a good slug of time when he wouldn't be progressing story he wanted to tell.

Net result was that I just dropped all current mainstream super hero comics...the short term gimmicks drove a potential customer away.

I can't be the only one.

[Trey Strain]

I dunno. I kinda think they should focus on telling good stories in this universe.

Does that mean that no good stories can come out of a multiverse? No. But it's not as if they have so many good stories to tell that this universe can't contain them all.

[Dataweaver]

It's not about quantity of good stories, Trey. It's about variety. There's no way you could tell a story like Batman: Red Rain or Superman: Red Son on Prime Earth. Anything concerning the Crime Syndicate is likewise impossible without some sort of multi-world structure (although the late-90s “JLA: Earth 2” managed quite nicely with just a matter/antimatter pair of worlds). They tried fitting Milestone onto Prime Earth; that didn't go well. They're still trying to get Wildstorm to work. The Captain Marvel of Earth-5 has something that Prime Earth's Shazam lacks, and the Freedom Fighters never really worked out as well post-Crisis as they did when they were fighting for freedom on Earth-X. There isn't room on Prime Earth for both Classic Wally and New Wally, unless you pull a CSA or Lois and Clark and make Classic Wally another refugee from another world. And so on.

[GlennSimpson]

Yes, I think large majority of us understand idea that cross overs and other events have purpose of selling more comics.

And...often...in short term they do just that.

But a fair number of us suspect it gives DC (and Marvel) a short term boost, but at a cost of alienating some of their potential readers....and that their long term effect of all the "marketing cleverness" is a long term sales decline.

Here's my "personal story". I read a wide variety of fiction...crime, fantasy, historical fiction, SF, and even the odd serious literary fiction. But also potentially love my fix of mainstream super hero comics...done right it's great escapist entertainment. Up to 2 years ago I bought anything from a dozen to a score DC and Marvel comics a month...just getting those where I liked the writer/ artist/ character combos.

Eventually it dawned on me that:-
1/ DC changed writer with monotonous regularity.
2/ That often comic I bought was quite often difficult to follow without buying ones I'd got little interest in...that cross-overs and "special" events came around very often.

So DC made it difficult for me to follow a favourite writer. And even if a favourite writer did stay on a comic for a reasonable length of time, there would be a good slug of time when he wouldn't be progressing story he wanted to tell.

Net result was that I just dropped all current mainstream super hero comics...the short term gimmicks drove a potential customer away.

I can't be the only one.

Yes, but I'm not talking about someone saying "I don't want DC to do crossovers". I'm talking about people - and there have been 2-3 over time who have said something to this effect - "I think DC should do crossovers, but they should be really small and not force me to buy series I don't normally buy."

That's like saying "I want to take a shower as long as I don't have to get wet."

[GlennSimpson]

Do people understand that most people's likes are not dictated by what's best for the company?

Well, it's the usual discussion then - why not start a thread talking about how DC should just give their comics out for free? Wouldn't that be great for the fans?

[Xon-Ur]

Do people actually understand the concept of dividing the audience into groups that are so small they don't produce the minimum sales to make a book profitable?

Or that the purpose of crossovers and other events is actually to get people to buy more comics than they normally do?

Why does dividing comics/stories into sub-groups "divide" the audience? I loathe the Earth-0 Superman, but I've enjoyed other titles set on Earth-0. If what I'm suggesting happened, I'd be likely to not only by the books set on the Earths I want to see, but also, those set on whatever the "main Earth" would be. Is DC "dividing the audience" by setting titles on Earth-2? By publishing Multiversity? Justice League 3000? Convergence?

If so, where are YOUR suggestions for how the Multiverse can be used? You've only managed to criticize the suggestions of those of us who are actually discussing the topic of the thread.

Do people understand that most people's likes are not dictated by what's best for the company?

Thank you. This is a forum for discussion, not a market research meeting.

Well, it's the usual discussion then - why not start a thread talking about how DC should just give their comics out for free? Wouldn't that be great for the fans?

This is borderline trolling, generally the purview of the guy in your avatar you so arrogantly ask people to avoid acting like.

Take your own advice.

[CaptCleghorn]

Well, it's the usual discussion then - why not start a thread talking about how DC should just give their comics out for free? Wouldn't that be great for the fans?

I'm sure if that thread was started, there'd be folks throwing a wet blanket on it as well. But, so what?

Does it bother you if someone wants to see a Shazam series set on its own world where we don't worry about how Cap and Sivana compare to Supes and Luthor? Or is it just people talking about it that bugs you? The truth is, none of us know whether or not an idea will sell. We have our thoughts and some of them are better than other people's thoughts. But even the management of DC comics is far from perfect on judging the sales potential of books.

[GlennSimpson]

I'm sure if that thread was started, there'd be folks throwing a wet blanket on it as well. But, so what?

Does it bother you if someone wants to see a Shazam series set on its own world where we don't worry about how Cap and Sivana compare to Supes and Luthor? Or is it just people talking about it that bugs you? The truth is, none of us know whether or not an idea will sell. We have our thoughts and some of them are better than other people's thoughts. But even the management of DC comics is far from perfect on judging the sales potential of books.

But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things that have a specific purpose. The purpose of crossovers is to get people to buy more books. Wanting DC to do crossovers, but not wanting to be asked to buy more books is illogical.

But also, in your example, if they've tried things either similar to or opposite to what is being suggested, then shouldn't we use that history to determine what might work? And if it won't, why bother?

[CaptCleghorn]

But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things that have a specific purpose. The purpose of crossovers is to get people to buy more books. Wanting DC to do crossovers, but not wanting to be asked to buy more books is illogical.

But also, in your example, if they've tried things either similar to or opposite to what is being suggested, then shouldn't we use that history to determine what might work? And if it won't, why bother?

I don't work for DC Comics. It's not my job to decide what sells. My role as a reader has the main focus of finding what I like to read and buying and reading that. If DC wants to put me on retainer, I'd be glad to go through sales figures, advertising campaigns, movie and TV figures and dates and then I'd throw all of that into statistical spreadsheets and tell them what that reveals. But DC does not pay me. I really don't care what sells. I care about what books I like enough to buy and read.

[GlennSimpson]

I don't work for DC Comics. It's not my job to decide what sells. My role as a reader has the main focus of finding what I like to read and buying and reading that. If DC wants to put me on retainer, I'd be glad to go through sales figures, advertising campaigns, movie and TV figures and dates and then I'd throw all of that into statistical spreadsheets and tell them what that reveals. But DC does not pay me. I really don't care what sells. I care about what books I like enough to buy and read.

Well I respectfully think that you would not GET to read 10 different books set on Earth 2 for very long, as I don't believe the audience for such a line of books is large enough to support them.

(You may or may not have been the person who asked for that, but that is what I was responding to)

[Starchild]

I always wondered why DC wasn't putting out any Multiverse titles. Come on! A lot of those earths that were introduced have MASSIVE story ongoing potential. You can even do things with Kingdom Come, New Frontier & the Red Son universes.

[CaptCleghorn]

Well I respectfully think that you would not GET to read 10 different books set on Earth 2 for very long, as I don't believe the audience for such a line of books is large enough to support them.

(You may or may not have been the person who asked for that, but that is what I was responding to)

That wasn't me, but to be fair, the Earth 2 was for a renamed pre-Flashpoint world, not what DC has ever called Earth 2 (nu52 or pre-COIE). In any case, we're talking about what we'd like to see in superhero comics. You may think the relative realism and possibility of existence for those series is a factor for appropriateness of conversation, but we're talking about funny books starring men in capes, tights (and formerly underwear on the outside). If someone wants to see a maxi-series starring the Lieutenant Marvels, or to ;ist the 12 books they'd put on a DC Earth 2 (historic or nu 52 varieties). I still have conversations about which of Charlie's Angels I'd date (note: these are all except for Farrah, 'cuz everyone would pick Farrah) despite the absurdity and unrealism of the actuality (see: Mary Ann vs Ginger).

If anyone cares, Kate Jackson and Mary Ann.

[Xon-Ur]

I'm sure if that thread was started, there'd be folks throwing a wet blanket on it as well. But, so what?

Does it bother you if someone wants to see a Shazam series set on its own world where we don't worry about how Cap and Sivana compare to Supes and Luthor? Or is it just people talking about it that bugs you? The truth is, none of us know whether or not an idea will sell. We have our thoughts and some of them are better than other people's thoughts. But even the management of DC comics is far from perfect on judging the sales potential of books.

What bothers him is that people don't see things the way he does, so he pulls this kind of stuff, which he has long prided himself on calling others out on.

It's best to ignore most of his comments unless they're sensible.