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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post

    There aren't that many things that are well-written.
    And the stuff you are asking for probably won't be "well-written" either. It would still be theoretically written and drawn by the same people who worked on the stuff that didn't sell at DC before.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Yes, we have things like Earth One and Earth Two (at least for now), but what about all those other worlds they created? The Charlton universe? Or that pulp universe? Or Earth 32, the home of Super-president? Why create these worlds if you're not going to do anything with them? Just for Morrison to play with? I'm sure nobody wants a sequel to Kingdom Come or New Frontiers but there are plenty of "corporate" Earths they could do stuff with. As someone else once said, DC has a problem with letting others play with Morrison's toys but they aren't really his.
    I would be happy with a return to the pre-COIE era -- regular (but not too regular) appearances of Earth 2 and other Earths appearing when necessary to a good story. Just because there ARE multiple Earths does not mean that DC should dilute its flagship Earth with overuse of other Earths. (I would not object to a JSA book set on Earth 2.)

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  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    And the stuff you are asking for probably won't be "well-written" either. It would still be theoretically written and drawn by the same people who worked on the stuff that didn't sell at DC before.
    My point is that the sales problem is a matter of the quality of the product, not (as Trey was implying) what the setting is. That is, Multiverse titles have precisely the same opportunity to be well-written as Prime Earth titles, no more and no less. It's a completely separate issue from whether DC should focus exclusively on Prime Earth or if they should diversify their titles into the Mutiverse as well.
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  4. #64
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Multiverse titles have precisely the same opportunity to be well-written as Prime Earth titles, no more and no less.
    I don't think they do, actually. The culture, such as it is, of DC fans, or superhero comics fans in general, prizes "the real universe" over alternate ones. "The comics that count," and all that. It's not every superhero fan, or ever DC fan, but it is a lot of them. Any time DC does something with alternate realities or alternate takes, you get a wave of complaints if it doesn't tie heavily into the main universe, as if people were tricked into reading Convergence or The Multiversity, or JLA 3001 because they're not "real comics," the way Action Comics #32 is a "real comic."

    It's silly. It doesn't make a great deal of objective sense. But, it is a common sentiment.

    That said, it's not as if DC hasn't marketed niche books to a niche, but hopefully reliable market before, and they shouldn't stop now.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    My point is that the sales problem is a matter of the quality of the product, not (as Trey was implying) what the setting is. That is, Multiverse titles have precisely the same opportunity to be well-written as Prime Earth titles, no more and no less. It's a completely separate issue from whether DC should focus exclusively on Prime Earth or if they should diversify their titles into the Mutiverse as well.
    You are correct, sir.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    I don't think they do, actually. The culture, such as it is, of DC fans, or superhero comics fans in general, prizes "the real universe" over alternate ones. "The comics that count," and all that.
    What does tat have to do with how well-written they are?

    For the record, I'm well aware that there are fans out there who think that nothing matters if it doesn't impact Prime Earth in some way. Which is fine; Multiverse books aren't for them. But by the same token, there are fans who think that nothing that's set on Prime Earth is worth reading, and will only consider a Multiverse title. That's precisely as bizarre a position to hold as “despite having a Multiverse again, let's completely ignore it and focus entirely on one Earth.” If you're not going to use the Multiverse, what was the point in bringing it back?
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  7. #67
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    I don't think they do, actually. The culture, such as it is, of DC fans, or superhero comics fans in general, prizes "the real universe" over alternate ones. "The comics that count," and all that. It's not every superhero fan, or ever DC fan, but it is a lot of them. Any time DC does something with alternate realities or alternate takes, you get a wave of complaints if it doesn't tie heavily into the main universe, as if people were tricked into reading Convergence or The Multiversity, or JLA 3001 because they're not "real comics," the way Action Comics #32 is a "real comic."

    It's silly. It doesn't make a great deal of objective sense. But, it is a common sentiment.

    That said, it's not as if DC hasn't marketed niche books to a niche, but hopefully reliable market before, and they shouldn't stop now.
    The likelihood of a title being well or poorly written is independent of the relative size of its audience. Its success as a business venture, sure. But its quality, not really.

    And as for silly? We're talking about superhero comics. That to me is silly. I'm excited for my trip to the comics shop today as if I was buddies with Sheldon and Leonard. Silly is the perfect word for this.

  8. #68
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    Couple of different variations going on here, so to try to bring it together:

    1. A bunch of series set on other Earths would not necessarily be any better written than anything else DC publishes. Because the same people would be writing them. So if someone doesn't like DC's current books because they feel they are not well written, changing the setting isn't going to make them better written.
    2. A bunch of series set on other Earths would also not necessarily sell any better, because of the "it needs to matter" mentality of the majority of the audience.

    So what you would end up with is several series that would ONLY be written as well as the current books, with a reduced potential audience.

    I actually have nothing against the notion of other-Earths series and would probably buy and enjoy them, but I can't really see where they would last very long.

  9. #69
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    What does tat have to do with how well-written they are?
    Sorry, I misread that as "the same opportunity," not "the same opportunity to be well-written.

    That's what I get for posting a response while paying attention to other things.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I think people are sort of misunderstanding my intention. I'm not saying that you need to set up an ongoing for each universe or something (though you could sell me on the Sliders style premise of a team going to various Earths pretty easily) but why not do minis for some of these worlds? Like pulp Earth or Shazam Earth. I think some of them have potential for an ongoing like the Shazam Earth or the Charlton Earth. But test the waters first. I just wondered why they were so eager to fill up their multiverse unless they already had some ideas for it in the works. Why does Earth 16 exist, for example? Or the amalgamated world? That one looks like a lot of fun assuming they do it right. I had hoped that Multiversity was an opening for some future ideas.
    I agree about a Exiles type series. Morrison had a similar idea with his team of Supermen from across the Multiverse in Final Night. Instead, you could have a team comprised of different versions of DC characters that travels the Multiverse, perhaps going on missions for the Monitors or simply going on adventures.

    Justice League Infinity would be a good title, since Justice League is about to become the new "Bat" at DC and WB with regards to marketing.

  11. #71
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    Couple of different variations going on here, so to try to bring it together:

    1. A bunch of series set on other Earths would not necessarily be any better written than anything else DC publishes. Because the same people would be writing them. So if someone doesn't like DC's current books because they feel they are not well written, changing the setting isn't going to make them better written.
    2. A bunch of series set on other Earths would also not necessarily sell any better, because of the "it needs to matter" mentality of the majority of the audience.

    So what you would end up with is several series that would ONLY be written as well as the current books, with a reduced potential audience.

    I actually have nothing against the notion of other-Earths series and would probably buy and enjoy them, but I can't really see where they would last very long.
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    Ah, the classic lack of consensus over the size of the potential audience for a property...
    Again, there are people who would like it and those that would not. Do any of us have an accurate way to quantify the sizes?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I think people are sort of misunderstanding my intention. I'm not saying that you need to set up an ongoing for each universe or something (though you could sell me on the Sliders style premise of a team going to various Earths pretty easily) but why not do minis for some of these worlds? Like pulp Earth or Shazam Earth. I think some of them have potential for an ongoing like the Shazam Earth or the Charlton Earth. But test the waters first. I just wondered why they were so eager to fill up their multiverse unless they already had some ideas for it in the works. Why does Earth 16 exist, for example? Or the amalgamated world? That one looks like a lot of fun assuming they do it right. I had hoped that Multiversity was an opening for some future ideas.
    Yes, I agree. That is a good, fun suggestion to make, and I would have a better time speculating with people on how we would like Multiverse titles to go than I would arguing over whether it's likely to happen or to succeed.

    I'd love a miniseries of Master Men or Thunderworld! Or whatever that Kamandi world from Guidebook was. Maybe an ongoing about the Atomic Knight Batman's world! Or about Ultraman! Or the Blood League from the Vampire World! The S.O.S.! The Tulpa Superman from Earth 45! The possibilities are endless! And by endless I mean exactly fifty-one!

    Or realistically, forty-nine, since Earth 1 is populated by original graphic novels and Earth 33 should prooobably be excluded from the equation, at least until Justice Incarnate shows up in real life and we need to hand Grant Morrison over to them.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Again, there are people who would like it and those that would not. Do any of us have an accurate way to quantify the sizes?
    The fact that similar things have not sold well?

  14. #74
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    I'd love to see Grant do a follow up series to several of the universes he started in Multiversity, but it seems like a lot of them were kind of one-offs. And I'd be worried what another writer might do to what he established (not that many writers tend to pick up from where Grant leaves things). Either way, he's got my money on anything he puts out there.

  15. #75
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    Couple of different variations going on here, so to try to bring it together:

    1. A bunch of series set on other Earths would not necessarily be any better written than anything else DC publishes. Because the same people would be writing them. So if someone doesn't like DC's current books because they feel they are not well written, changing the setting isn't going to make them better written.
    Nobody's disputing this. The only reason I mentioned the “well-written” thing was to offer an alternate explanation why the current crop of books aren't selling.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    2. A bunch of series set on other Earths would also not necessarily sell any better, because of the "it needs to matter" mentality of the majority of the audience.
    I dispute the claim that it's the majority of the audience who feels this way, and not just a very loud minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    So what you would end up with is several series that would ONLY be written as well as the current books, with a reduced potential audience.
    There isn't a single title in DC's lineup (now or in the past) that doesn't target one part of DC's fanbase more than another; this would be no different.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    I actually have nothing against the notion of other-Earths series and would probably buy and enjoy them, but I can't really see where they would last very long.
    Frankly, the only times DC has even attempted an other-Earths series in the past twenty years have been Countdown (which was fatally flawed in ways unrelated to its world-hopping elements) and Earth-2 (which was doing fine until they drove away its writer and derailed its storyline from world-building to world-destroying — again, a flaw unrelated to its other-Earth aspect). In short, I can't think of a single other-Earth series that failed because it was other-Earth; and I don't think DC has actually given the notion a fair shot.
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