If you were to make Man Of Steel 2, how would you do it?

[Flash Gordon]

Interesting. You equate "masculine" and "in charge" with:

*bullying (destroying the truck driver's rig)
*being a dullard (no time spent in continuing education, just wandering like David Banner in TIH, failing to use his brain in his fight with Zod and his crew instead of just resorting to violence)
*completely ignoring the characterization of Superman as a character who "always finds a way," and who, instead, resorts to violence and ultimately, murder, not to mention irresponsibility which leads to widespread collateral damage and death

I sincerely hope you aren't teaching these ideals of masculinity and assertiveness to any male children

LOL

I equate "masculinity/toughness" to making the hard choices. Taking the blunt of something for the better of everyone else. That's a hero. Superman doesn't leave the fight with Zod to someone else, he handles it himself. He does kill him, yes, but only when presented as no possible other way. If he hesitates, millions more will die. This isn't even the first time Superman has killed a verison of Zod. He killed him in Bryne's run and he killed him in the Donner films. It may not be my "perfect take" but it's valid.

As for bullying? Superman has always done stuff like that in the comics. ALWAYS. His first appearance, he's smashing a car into a rock. The car was driving away from him. It's a hallmark of his character. Plus that dude was being HORRIBLE and that taught him a lesson. Superman isn't opposed to teaching a good lesson from time to time.

As for being a dullard? Gee, thanks for insulting anyone who doesn't go right to college in a country that prices most working class kids out of the running anyway. Though nothing really says Clark DIDN'T get a degree in this. He's clearly 30 in the beginning of the film. Besides travel teaches a writer more anyway, but that's just me.

Superman, as presented in MoS is a far more viable character for sequels than he has been in ages.

[Sacred Knight]

That's right, he's cool and collected when he destroys the truck driver's semi, smashes Zod through countless buildings, and burns him in rage with his heat vision. I'd forgotten.

I can tell, because its Zod who smashes Superman through countless buildings. But you're right on one thing, he's certainly made angry by Zod and co. more than once throughout the course of the movie for their actions. So I misspoke there, he does get emotional when they harm others, but thats' a good thing.

This film isn't without its share of problems. Some of them you noted like Jonathan's characterization (or should I say, not bringing an understandable context to his characterization; if he'd had a scene where he tells Clark he's proud of him wanting to help people but is just so desperately worried about him, it'd have made a lot more sense), but overall you're just doing a lot of cherry picking and misrepresentation of scenes to exaggerate your gripes. And in some cases, like the truck scene, its your misunderstanding, no Snyder's failing. He's not the bully there, he's teaching the bully a lesson. An ass getting a superprank pulled on him? That's classic Superman if there ever was a classic Superman scene in the movie. This is tantamount to saying that Superman is a bully in Superman: The Movie for ruining the criminals' boat and stopping traffic by placing it in front of the police station like he did. Superman has a strong sense of humor, and a trickster's mindset. Somewhere along the lines though some of his fans lost theirs.

[Last Son of Krypton]

MoS seems to be the most discussed movie of history. 3 years... and we are still talking about it.

[Agniwolf]

MoS seems to be the most discussed movie of history. 3 years... and we are still talking about it.

it will probably be discussed til the end of the shared movieverse

[Xon-Ur]

Not that MOS is the greatest movie ever. But all of this is bullsh*t. The truck driver had it coming for being an ass. And Metropolis was destroyed by the time Superman got there. And yeah he killed Zod. So what? You didnt get you jimmies rusted when Batman killed Harvey Dent and let Ra die did you? The Dark Killer. I think Zack Snyder was right, it seems that Superman will never win anymore because people will complain that he ia too perdect or not perfect enough.

I think you need to take a second and think before you presume to know what I think about the Nolan trilogy. I HATED that Bruce let Ra's die, same with Harvey. I loathe just about everything about those films, especially the fact that Batman is portrayed as a guy who's nothing special, just a guy in a hi-tech armored suit who can fight.

As for Superman being "perfect," that's more "bullshit," as you say. There's a way to write a human and engaging Superman without bringing him down to our 21st century level of cynicism, darkness, and general nihilism. Heroes should inspire us to rise above our baser selves and be better human beings, not join us in wallowing in the shit that is our brokenness.

[Last Son of Krypton]

it will probably be discussed til the end of the shared movieverse

Nah, probably til the end of time.

[Blade Wolf]

Just make Superman leave the Earth, humanity dont deserve him, people fear/hate him, politicians and military leaders dont trust him, two rich xenophobic spoiled assholes want him dead.

Make MoS 2 an epic space opera, I want to see new worlds (Krypton in MoS was amazing looking) Superman being a savior for them, they could introduce new alien races, make the DCEU feel bigger, not to mention this also evades the usual ''where are the other heroes''? question

Brainiac should be the main villain , collecting different alien life forms across the galaxy, this also could be the gateway to introduce The Fortress of Solitude

Brainiac is a SUPERMAN VILLAIN, I dont want any other hero fighting him cough cough Lego Batman 3 cough cough

i would put krypto anda kara on it, maybe as two surviving specimen in the collection of one brainiac scouts, deal with him trying to teach kara how to fit in the same time as he tries to learn the most about his culture, the problems of having a superdog (in the wolfish style) while they both try to cope with how they will live from now on knowing they will always be seen as strangers, then brainiac comes to earth and they discover that he was the reason for the kryptonian isolament and the destruction of their colonies.

lots of space action scenes, strangers family bonding, a city destruction "independence day" style, the cameos for steel, maxima and the legion

I love this idea

[SiegePerilous02]

I think you need to take a second and think before you presume to know what I think about the Nolan trilogy. I HATED that Bruce let Ra's die, same with Harvey. I loathe just about everything about those films, especially the fact that Batman is portrayed as a guy who's nothing special, just a guy in a hi-tech armored suit who can fight.

As for Superman being "perfect," that's more "bullshit," as you say. There's a way to write a human and engaging Superman without bringing him down to our 21st century level of cynicism, darkness, and general nihilism. Heroes should inspire us to rise above our baser selves and be better human beings, not join us in wallowing in the shit that is our brokenness.

It's a good thing MoS Clark didn't do any of those things, then. Him being stoic/broody and questioning his place in life isn't being cynical or overly dark. They were dealing with the issues the character has always dealt with, just in a more grounded manner. Flawed in execution in some parts, but the intent was there.

[Prime]

I can tell, because its Zod who smashes Superman through countless buildings. But you're right on one thing, he's certainly made angry by Zod and co. more than once throughout the course of the movie for their actions. So I misspoke there, he does get emotional when they harm others, but thats' a good thing.

This film isn't without its share of problems. Some of them you noted like Jonathan's characterization (or should I say, not bringing an understandable context to his characterization; if he'd had a scene where he tells Clark he's proud of him wanting to help people but is just so desperately worried about him, it'd have made a lot more sense), but overall you're just doing a lot of cherry picking and misrepresentation of scenes to exaggerate your gripes. And in some cases, like the truck scene, its your misunderstanding, no Snyder's failing. He's not the bully there, he's teaching the bully a lesson. An ass getting a superprank pulled on him? That's classic Superman if there ever was a classic Superman scene in the movie. This is tantamount to saying that Superman is a bully in Superman: The Movie for ruining the criminals' boat and stopping traffic by placing it in front of the police station like he did. Superman has a strong sense of humor, and a trickster's mindset. Somewhere along the lines though some of his fans lost theirs.

Lol Always thought Superman should be like the troll in the justice league or the one that makes everyone laugh.

[Superlad93]

I can tell, because its Zod who smashes Superman through countless buildings. But you're right on one thing, he's certainly made angry by Zod and co. more than once throughout the course of the movie for their actions. So I misspoke there, he does get emotional when they harm others, but thats' a good thing.

This film isn't without its share of problems. Some of them you noted like Jonathan's characterization (or should I say, not bringing an understandable context to his characterization; if he'd had a scene where he tells Clark he's proud of him wanting to help people but is just so desperately worried about him, it'd have made a lot more sense), but overall you're just doing a lot of cherry picking and misrepresentation of scenes to exaggerate your gripes. And in some cases, like the truck scene, its your misunderstanding, no Snyder's failing. He's not the bully there, he's teaching the bully a lesson. An ass getting a superprank pulled on him? That's classic Superman if there ever was a classic Superman scene in the movie. This is tantamount to saying that Superman is a bully in Superman: The Movie for ruining the criminals' boat and stopping traffic by placing it in front of the police station like he did. Superman has a strong sense of humor, and a trickster's mindset. Somewhere along the lines though some of his fans lost theirs.

While Superman incarnations of the past (most notably the Silver age) have been known for their pranks, I think it'd be a bit of a stretch to say that's what Snyder was going for. Didn't really play that way. Seemed more like taking out pent up aggression. That scene even has a sister scene in Clark's run in with the bullies back home as a kid. He explains to Jon how much he wanted to hit them and his frustration is shown in the bent fence post.

Seemed more like as Clark has gotten older and stronger, and has had to deal with more crap. It's been harder to stay his had, and he's need more "extravagant" outlets. It's like a giant being told to be quite by the standards of ants. Not an invalid take by any means. But far from the trickster god with a bunch of free time that he was. This is the very reason why I think they shoot themselves in the foot pretty bad with the overabundance of direct action in the movie. If the idea if Clark being able to finally stretch out his wings in the same passionate way we all can then you build to that. You make him viably fight the urge even during the big fights because of years of conditioning. Zod or Faora taunting him about it (as opposed to that DUMB AS F#CK evolution speech that made no sense). "These humans have brought a giant to heel without even knowing it. Remarkable" Then the pay off isn't just Clark beats the crap out of them. It's Clark mixes what he's been taught and what he feels to show restraint and to do what needs to be done. They maybe-sorta-not-really-but-maybe-if-squint imply that in the fights, but it could have been a better plot point and it could've made for a stronger character if they'd have done less fights/direct conflicts (action and fight/conflicts don't always have to be lumped in together) and more build up to a more satisfying conflict.

As of now I don't really know this Clark very well. I know of him, but in a movie where I'm going through events from his POV that's not what I want.

[Xon-Ur]

It's a good thing MoS Clark didn't do any of those things, then. Him being stoic/broody and questioning his place in life isn't being cynical or overly dark. They were dealing with the issues the character has always dealt with, just in a more grounded manner. Flawed in execution in some parts, but the intent was there.

We saw a different movie, then. There was no intent on the part of the character. He had no self-motivation, he just did whatever his two dads told him to. In the case of "Jonthan Kent," that was hide his powers and be a coward. In the case of Jor-El, that was put on a conveniently-present suit and do some ambiguous "bridging two worlds" and "be a symbol of hope" nonsense.

[Agniwolf]

We saw a different movie, then. There was no intent on the part of the character. He had no self-motivation, he just did whatever his two dads told him to. In the case of "Jonthan Kent," that was hide his powers and be a coward. In the case of Jor-El, that was put on a conveniently-present suit and do some ambiguous "bridging two worlds" and "be a symbol of hope" nonsense.

maybe it is more of a case that we saw the same movie with different eyes

[Stanlos]

Fire and Imprison everyone of the WB/DC Executives that green lite the last 2 superman movie. ....Then give the project to Bruce Timm.

CLOSE THREAD!

DW Washburn for president!

[manofsteel1979]

We saw a different movie, then. There was no intent on the part of the character. He had no self-motivation, he just did whatever his two dads told him to. In the case of "Jonthan Kent," that was hide his powers and be a coward. In the case of Jor-El, that was put on a conveniently-present suit and do some ambiguous "bridging two worlds" and "be a symbol of hope" nonsense.

Sans the "bridging of two worlds" and the Jonathan Kent stuff, you also could be describing the Reeve version as well. Reeve's version camped out at the fortress for 12 years and became Superman because his space Dad wanted him to.

He also later nearly doomed humanity to live under the jack booted heel of Zod just so he could get laid. Doesn't sound all that "self motivated" to me.

[manofsteel1979]

Okay...since this thread once again got hijacked and derailed by another "MAN OF MURDER SUX!" diatribe, and since I haven't shared my thoughts on what I would do with an MOS sequel, let me chime in...hopefully getting this on track again...

I'd do a stand alone story set some time after both Batman v Superman and JL part 1 and 2. I'd actually do a riff on The classic AOS episode that had Superman go missing and lose his memory after attempting to deflect a giant asteroid from impacting the Earth. Just like in the classic episode Superman is partially successful,but the clock is still ticking as the JLA, the Government and even Luthor race to save Earth from imminent destruction, but it's clear that Earth's only hope is Superman. But where is he? Lois Lane and Perry White believe he is alive and seek to find him...but when and if they do, will he gain his memory back in time to save the day again?