Superman in Dawn of Justice

[Sacred Knight]

Here's something else of interest, this could, potentially, set up some huge stuff for Superman in JL, I mean:
spoilers:

They could play a secondary "doomsday" scenario (no pun intended). That, while the old vision of Darkseid's invasion no longer comes to pass as Superman does not succumb to the darkness, with Superman now "dead", there once again isn't enough to stop him. They could play off an idea that even with the whole newly formed Justice League (the big 6, for the time being), it ultimately must be Kal-El who defeats the God, and with him not there, Darkseid is all "Hahaha, I win already". Maybe keep Clark absent all the way up until the third act of the film. Then he returns like a boss for a New God vs. Man of Steel action. It'd be worth it with a set up like that/

end of spoilers

[Prime]

Here's something else of interest, this could, potentially, set up some huge stuff for Superman in JL, I mean:
spoilers:

They could play a secondary "doomsday" scenario (no pun intended). That, while the old vision of Darkseid's invasion no longer comes to pass as Superman does not succumb to the darkness, with Superman now "dead", there once again isn't enough to stop him. They could play off an idea that even with a whole team, it ultimately must be Kal-El who defeats the God, and with him not there, Darkseid is all "Hahaha, I win already". Maybe keep Clark absent all the way up until the third act of the film. Then he returns like a boss for a New God vs. Man of Steel action. It'd be worth it with a set up like that/

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I'm probably posting this because I am bitter about the fight, but if Batman beats Superman, shouldn't he be able to beat Darkseid...He did it in the comics with plot armor, literally.

end of spoilers

[SSJett]

spoilers:

I was reading the spoilers and people were saying if the ending was true than they would actually come to like superman. He would be doing the job because he knows he can and nobody else can. Also a lot of people are saying it feels like a reverse TDKR. From what I was reading at the beginning of the fight Bats is just a Gnat to Superman. There is never a time where Superman is actually gunning for Batman. I'm a HUGE Superman fan, and I know that if Supes gets own then I'll get a ribbing at work come Monday, but if this movie somehow makes more people like Supes isn't that what we really want? We as Supes fan will hate the fight, but I'm all for getting his popularity back up if this film can somehow do it.

end of spoilers

[Sacred Knight]

Thing is, the dude in question really doesn't have any weaknesses like Kryptonite. I mean we've seen something dumb like you mention in the comics before, but that was REAL dumb. So hopefully they don't go there.

[Will J.]

First, while I most certainly understand and sympathize with the frustration here, I don't think it's that bad.

spoilers:

A couple of things here. Superman is at a couple of disadvantages here, as Henry Cavill has already stated that he's a complete amateur compared to Batman's experience. The other is that, from everything I've seen, Superman has no idea whatsoever about the Kryptonite, so he's essentially going in half blind against a guy who looks to have been planning this for a while, and in some of the clips I've seen, he can still end the fight, even in a weakened state, any time he wants. But that doesn't mean he won't defend himself when Batman comes at him. And Batman's counting on that, as Affleck himself said that he's taking advantage of Superman being a good guy. He basically admitted when they visited the NBA on TNT set that Superman could just rip his head off. Batman being stopped by the mention of Martha Kent doesn't really bother me, to be honest. As some posters on another forum pointed out, it tells Batman that this god he's trying to wage war against is actually a man, like he is. Regarding Superman's death, I don't like it because it reinforces my belief that Zack Snyder is little more than a shock and awe director who thinks he's deeper and more philosophical than he actually is, but other than that, I'm fine with it for the obvious reason of knowing he'll be back.

end of spoilers

I get the frustration, I really do, but I'm tired of fearing every little thing DC has planned for Superman, and I think I'm in the process of beating that because of a couple of quotes I came across, and I'm paraphrasing here.

One is that "the comeback's always stronger than the setback.", and the other is "Get knocked down seven times, get up eight."

Both of those quotes sum up Superman to me, as does the knowledge that over the course of the thirty years since The Dark Knight Returns came out, he's still standing. Regardless of popularity, the character's built to last.

Sorry for the long-winded, somewhat off-topic spiel, but I pretty much needed to verbalize this.

[Prime]

I was reading the spoilers and people were saying if the ending was true than they would actually come to like superman. He would be doing the job because he knows he can and nobody else can.

Also a lot of people are saying it feels like a reverse TDKR.

From what I was reading at the beginning of the fight Bats is just a Gnat to Superman. There is never a time where Superman is actually gunning for Batman.

I'm a HUGE Superman fan, and I know that if Supes gets own then I'll get a ribbing at work come Monday, but if this movie somehow makes more people like Supes isn't that what we really want? We as Supes fan will hate the fight, but I'm all for getting his popularity back up if this film can somehow do it.

I kinda find it hard to believe this will make him popular. But if it does, then holy hell, nice. But I doubt it.

[Prime]

Thing is, the dude in question really doesn't have any weaknesses like Kryptonite. I mean we've seen something dumb like you mention in the comics before, but that was REAL dumb. So hopefully they don't go there.

It's DC. It's DC Sacred...

[SSJett]

All I can say is don't lose hope or faith yet. Let's see how this all plays out.

[Prime]

First, while I most certainly understand and sympathize with the frustration here, I don't think it's that bad.

spoilers:

A couple of things here. Superman is at a couple of disadvantages here, as Henry Cavill has already stated that he's a complete amateur compared to Batman's experience. The other is that, from everything I've seen, Superman has no idea whatsoever about the Kryptonite, so he's essentially going in half blind against a guy who looks to have been planning this for a while, and in some of the clips I've seen, he can still end the fight, even in a weakened state, any time he wants. But that doesn't mean he won't defend himself when Batman comes at him. And Batman's counting on that, as Affleck himself said that he's taking advantage of Superman being a good guy. He basically admitted when they visited the NBA on TNT set that Superman could just rip his head off. Batman being stopped by the mention of Martha Kent doesn't really bother me, to be honest. As some posters on another forum pointed out, it tells Batman that this god he's trying to wage war against is actually a man, like he is. Regarding Superman's death, I don't like it because it reinforces my belief that Zack Snyder is little more than a shock and awe director who thinks he's deeper and more philosophical than he actually is, but other than that, I'm fine with it for the obvious reason of knowing he'll be back.

end of spoilers

I get the frustration, I really do, but I'm tired of fearing every little thing DC has planned for Superman, and I think I'm in the process of beating that because of a couple of quotes I came across, and I'm paraphrasing here.

One is that "the comeback's always stronger than the setback.", and the other is "Get knocked down seven times, get up eight."

Both of those quotes sum up Superman to me, as does the knowledge that over the course of the thirty years since The Dark Knight Returns came out, he's still standing. Regardless of popularity, the character's built to last.

Sorry for the long-winded, somewhat off-topic spiel, but I pretty much needed to verbalize this.

It doesn't give me any hope. And look at how DC treats Serman in the comics...Truth has been awful.

[Will J.]

I get that, Prime, I do. And I didn't post that to give anyone hope or anything like that.

It was just something I needed to get off my chest.

I'm in no position to tell anyone how to react or feel about what they love.

And uh, I definitely have my moments where I verbally tee off on DC and the people they trust their properties to, but those moments would get me banned from here, so I keep them on my blog.

It's a nice way to relieve tension, truth be told.

[Sacred Knight]

I don't know, I don't blame Snyder particularly for going the
spoilers:

death route. It doesn't say anything about him at all to me, considering that the suits wanted a Death of Superman movie since the mid-90s. Its been a loooong time coming, in other words. Zack Snyder just happened to be in the director's chair when it finally happened. And of all ways to go about it, this sounds decent to me.

end of spoilers

[Prime]

I get that, Prime, I do. And I didn't post that to give anyone hope or anything like that.

It was just something I needed to get off my chest.

I'm in no position to tell anyone how to react or feel about what they love.

And uh, I definitely have my moments where I verbally tee off on DC and the people they trust their properties to, but those moments would get me banned from here, so I keep them on my blog.

It's a nice way to relieve tension, truth be told.

I guess so. DC is pretty much to blame for Superman's current affairs.

[Will J.]

I don't know, I don't blame Snyder particularly for going the
spoilers:

death route. It doesn't say anything about him at all to me, considering that the suits wanted a Death of Superman movie since the mid-90s. Its been a loooong time coming, in other words. Zack Snyder just happened to be in the director's chair when it finally happened. And of all ways to go about it, this sounds decent to me.

end of spoilers

Well, my opinion of him has more to do with his projects outside of Superman and the DCEU than it does with them, which is obviously a discussion for a different thread, but yeah, you make a good point.

I tend to forget sometimes that a director is not completely autonomous on these films.

[Will J.]

I guess so. DC is pretty much to blame for Superman's current affairs.

Well, on this, we're in complete agreement.

[Superlad93]

Too bad most people won't see it that way and it kinda undermines Superman for future movies.

Why? spoilers:

He's just a guy who was who has been put but in this larger than life context but that doesn't change that he's just a guy. What? Did you think he'd be "training" at his new job between now and BVS? Why? He's literally the most powerful guy around. The only things he's "training" to do are save people more effectively and write stories. Other than that he's just Clark Kent who lives with his GF and visits his mom back home. So when this 20 year vet beats the crap out of him with his weakness, hell yeah I believe it. My big hope is that they show Clark really as this dude who's doing all of this by the seat of his pants because there is no rule book on how to be a super powered alien immigrant who has just changed the landscape of the modern world by just being there. Hell (among other things) I was pretty mad that Clark did so well when fighting Zod and everyone. Fighting Zod like Batman should be the scariest thing ever for this dude. Then with Batman you get even more conflict with the idea that Clark is still trying to remain a good man and not get swept up in the hype of his "godhood". He's got to beat Batman without killing him because one way or another the whole world will be watching his every move. He's got to do that and on top of it Batman is 20 years training and naturally obsessive. This version of Clark has a very compelling and human struggle to go through

end of spoilers

spoilers:

When Metallo shows up, I won't be able to take Superman seriously.

end of spoilers

Again, Why?