Superman in Dawn of Justice

[Sacred Knight]

Thinking about it more and more, while I still think Wonder Woman is going to steal the show of the film, and while Batman obviously gets the most focus, that ending might be what everyone leaves talking about first. That could be very good for Superman.

[Superlad93]

Lemme go back into my history, but to paraphrase it in the meantime:
spoilers:

What I saw, posted today, said that Superman "dies" killing Doomsday with Batman's kryptonite spear. He has a funeral and all, yet the very end teases his still alive with the sound of a growing-more-powerful heartbeat from the casket

end of spoilers

Here it is: for realz don't read it if you don't wanna know basically everything (if true, and it looks like):
http://pastebin.com/rzDiVf8e

Oh my this is strange lol

spoilers:

well JL could have this really cool "and then Superman returns in the worlds greatest hour of need" moment. Going for a very Joseph Campbell sort of take on the whole deal. But I hope he doesn't just burst from the grave like some sentinel of good. I'm hoping for maybe him secretly (from even the JL) resting at the farm or something having to deal with the idea of "dude I just died or got damn close to it. This is way more than I bargained for". Again this is a little too much and set up heavy for this one film. You've totally bury the lead of BVS and by the end it seems we've got too much on the plate.

end of spoilers

We'll see.

[Superlad93]

spoilers:

I'm a HUGE Superman fan, and I know that if Supes gets own then I'll get a ribbing at work come Monday, but if this movie somehow makes more people like Supes isn't that what we really want? We as Supes fan will hate the fight, but I'm all for getting his popularity back up if this film can somehow do it.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I'll take a million jokes at school and work if it means we get closer to Superman the character that people can latch on to and not the more prevalent Superman the unknowable icon that the audience at large have lost touch and interest in.

end of spoilers

[Prime]

[QUOTE=Superlad93;1875385]Why? spoilers:

He's just a guy who was who has been put but in this larger than life context but that doesn't change that he's just a guy. What? Did you think he'd be "training" at his new job between now and BVS? Why? He's literally the most powerful guy around. The only things he's "training" to do are save people more effectively and write stories. Other than that he's just Clark Kent who lives with his GF and visits his mom back home. So when this 20 year vet beats the crap out of him with his weakness, hell yeah I believe it. My big hope is that they show Clark really as this dude who's doing all of this by the seat of his pants because there is no rule book on how to be a super powered alien immigrant who has just changed the landscape of the modern world by just being there. Hell (among other things) I was pretty mad that Clark did so well when fighting Zod and everyone. Fighting Zod like Batman should be the scariest thing ever for this dude. Then with Batman you get even more conflict with the idea that Clark is still trying to remain a good man and not get swept up in the hype of his "godhood". He's got to beat Batman without killing him because one way or another the whole world will be watching his every move. He's got to do that and on top of it Batman is 20 years training and naturally obsessive. This version of Clark has a very compelling and human struggle to go through

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Well for one thing I can see from a week ahead the Batman fanboys and the Superman haters saying "SEE BATMAN RULZ, SUPERMAN SUCKS LOL". In another one if we ever use Metallo, they better make sure he loses that first fight against him, because it wouldn't make any sense that he can beat Metallo, but not Batman. Sorry for being such a Debbie downer, but you think people are going to give a sh*t about that? All they want is for Superman to lose, because of some misunderstood notion that apparently too OP and boring therefore he sucks, but Batman and X character can beat him, because I like him more.

end of spoilers


I'm not sure man, don't have any faith now.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I bet we see a Kingdom Come Superman/ Justice League movie someday!

[Superlad93]

First, while I most certainly understand and sympathize with the frustration here, I don't think it's that bad.

spoilers:

A couple of things here. Superman is at a couple of disadvantages here, as Henry Cavill has already stated that he's a complete amateur compared to Batman's experience. The other is that, from everything I've seen, Superman has no idea whatsoever about the Kryptonite, so he's essentially going in half blind against a guy who looks to have been planning this for a while, and in some of the clips I've seen, he can still end the fight, even in a weakened state, any time he wants. But that doesn't mean he won't defend himself when Batman comes at him. And Batman's counting on that, as Affleck himself said that he's taking advantage of Superman being a good guy. He basically admitted when they visited the NBA on TNT set that Superman could just rip his head off. Batman being stopped by the mention of Martha Kent doesn't really bother me, to be honest. As some posters on another forum pointed out, it tells Batman that this god he's trying to wage war against is actually a man, like he is. Regarding Superman's death, I don't like it because it reinforces my belief that Zack Snyder is little more than a shock and awe director who thinks he's deeper and more philosophical than he actually is, but other than that, I'm fine with it for the obvious reason of knowing he'll be back.

end of spoilers

I get the frustration, I really do, but I'm tired of fearing every little thing DC has planned for Superman, and I think I'm in the process of beating that because of a couple of quotes I came across, and I'm paraphrasing here.

One is that "the comeback's always stronger than the setback.", and the other is "Get knocked down seven times, get up eight."

Both of those quotes sum up Superman to me, as does the knowledge that over the course of the thirty years since The Dark Knight Returns came out, he's still standing. Regardless of popularity, the character's built to last.

Sorry for the long-winded, somewhat off-topic spiel, but I pretty much needed to verbalize this.

[Superlad93]

Okay this is gonna be strange with the tags on here but here we go lol

spoilers:

Well for one thing I can see from a week ahead the Batman fanboys and the Superman haters saying "SEE BATMAN RULZ, SUPERMAN SUCKS LOL".

end of spoilers

spoilers:

But, who the hell cares? That means very little when you're crafting a story. Both characters are structured and created to serve very different functions. It just so happens that one of Batman's inherent functions is being "cooler than the rest". That's built into his sensibilities with his automatically sympathetic and juvenile wish fulfillment base. He's an inherently easier to unpack an thus latch onto. Superman makes his fans by being robust and amazingly earnest. He plays on how human you make him and the things around him (how you adjust these levels). Batman actively tries to subvert the humanity in a situation. Long story short, you'd have heard this regardless of what who won. It's built in.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

In another one if we ever use Metallo, they better make sure he loses that first fight against him, because it wouldn't make any sense that he can beat Metallo, but not Batman.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I'm sorry but don't you literally mean opposite? Metallo comes after Batman. Superman has faced Batman and by proxy K radiation and a power suit, thus he's faced Metallo. It stands to reason, if they don't upgrade Metallo then Superman should do better since he's faced such conditions before. It's logic. But if the filmmakers are set in wanting him to just face a normal Metallo then you don't make a superhero movie, you make a thriller that happens to star Clark Kent. You change the situations and staging of the whole conflict. But on it's own, if it's another superhero movie then logic dictates that Superman does better once he knows this is the same situation.

end of spoilers

[Sacred Knight]

I think people love a good cliffhanger more than they care about the "who will win" aspect. In other words I think by the time the end rolls around and
spoilers:

The somber drum beats turn into Superman's still-beating heart (an awesome effect, btw)

end of spoilers that people aren't even going to be interested in the who beat who scenario anymore. That's my feeling.

[Prime]

Okay this is gonna be strange with the tags on here but here we go lol



spoilers:

But, who the hell cares? That means very little when you're crafting a story. Both characters are structured and created to serve very different functions. It just so happens that one of Batman's inherent functions is being "cooler than the rest". That's built into his sensibilities with his automatically sympathetic and juvenile wish fulfillment base. He's an inherently easier to unpack an thus latch onto. Superman makes his fans by being robust and amazingly earnest. He plays on how human you make him and the things around him (how you adjust these levels). Batman actively tries to subvert the humanity in a situation. Long story short, you'd have heard this regardless of what who won. It's built in.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I kinda do, haven't you seen how Supes reputation is now? It's ridiculous, it's reaching Aquaman levels of hatred, and Aquaman is just a misunderstood hero. They need to show why Superman is awesome, and him having losing to Batman is not the way. I know I seem like I am whining but I really want Superman too succeed and it doesn't seem like this movie won't do it. I started to like Superman when I was a teenager, and since you and I are the same age, it wasn't that long ago. And that was because of his compassion. And also Superman lost when his mother's life was on the line...Come ON.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I'm sorry but don't you literally mean opposite? Metallo comes after Batman. Superman has faced Batman and by proxy K radiation and a power suit, thus he's faced Metallo. It stands to reason, if they don't upgrade Metallo then Superman should do better since he's faced such conditions before. It's logic. But if the filmmakers are set in wanting him to just face a normal Metallo then you don't make a superhero movie, you make a thriller that happens to star Clark Kent. You change the situations and staging of the whole conflict. But on it's own, if it's another superhero movie then logic dictates that Superman does better once he knows this is the same situation.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

So he gets to beat Metallo and not Batman? Nah. This is why I hate kryptonite so f*cking much, a plot device used to drag Superman down.

end of spoilers

*Sigh* This movie will divide us.

[Prime]

I think people love a good cliffhanger more than they care about the "who will win" aspect. In other words I think by the time the end rolls around and
spoilers:

The somber drum beats turn into Superman's still-beating heart (an awesome effect, btw)

end of spoilers that people aren't even going to be interested in the who beat who scenario anymore. That's my feeling.

spoilers:

I doubt it, but who knows, most people just want to see Batman beat Superman

end of spoilers
Let's see what happens next week.

[Lairston]

*Sigh* This movie will divide us.

lol I think that's DC's plan. So we don't all get together and rush their headquarters in frustration.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Snyder will not lose the chance to give Clark the super-mullet in JL.

[Blade Wolf]

Well its over, its seems I was right

Even a C- List like Thor gets more respect from Marvel Studios, DC doesnt give a crap, the grand daddy of superheroes, the man who started all this and the most important thing, the man that pretty much put DC Comics on the map is now a joke.

-Screw Warner
-Screw Frank Miller
-Screw DC
-Screw Ben Affleck
-Screw Zack Snyder

[SSJett]

Well its over, its seems I was right

Even a C- List like Thor gets more respect from Marvel Studios, DC doesnt give a crap, the grand daddy of superheroes, the man who started all this and the most important thing, the man that pretty much put DC Comics on the map is now a joke.

-Screw Warner
-Screw Frank Miller
-Screw DC
-Screw Ben Affleck
-Screw Zack Snyder

Why? What happen?

[darkseidpwns]

Why? What happen?

Nothing,some fans were always going to throw a tantrum over the outcome of the fight. Still I dont get what Frank Miller and Ben Affleck have to do with anything,why not also say screw Cavill,Eisenberg,Adams and Gadot as well? it's just a specific, Batman complex driven tantrum.