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  1. #31
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    There have been genocides since WWII.
    Last edited by DDD; 03-17-2016 at 10:40 AM.

  2. #32
    Incredible Member JoeWithoutFear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    Thank you. Cool avatar BTW.
    Thanks! I made it myself. It represents the kind of unity I wish to see both from comics and the people who read them. Too often everything is a war of some kind. Like, Captain America has been used as wedge issue to drum up racist accusations ever since Sam took the mantle. I don't think fiction should drive people apart. Fiction should use the little power it should ever have to bring people together! Unity! Equality!
    Me: "Wanna be Hawkeye and Hawkeye next Halloween?"
    My wife: "Only if I get to be Clint."

  3. #33
    House of Frost NewMutant's Avatar
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    That was a great article you linked. Thanks.
    I was trying to do too much and not doing any of it as well as I could. But I've had a change of mind... though not everyone shall enjoy it. I will.

    #midnightermonday #uglystepchildren #lolgbtcomedyshow

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  4. #34
    Fantastic Member LocoSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewMutant View Post
    That was a great article you linked. Thanks.
    No problem.

  5. #35
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    I think the regression in the X-Men stories regarding how humans see and treat mutants somewhat parallels the regression in real-world American racial politics over the last five to seven (or eight years), or at least the increasingly open and blatant hostility towards many minority groups in America in real life. The parallel is that like how it's been stated in the X-Men comics that someday mutants will out-populate normal humans, the real world has had it projected that within a few decades' time nonwhite minorities will out-populate whites in America. In both cases, the fear of being outnumbered and thus potentially outgunned by those who are seen as "other" provides the impetus behind a rather extreme, and sometimes even violent, backlash against what they see as an encroachment upon what "belongs" to them, whether it be "our country" in real life or "our world" in the X-Men comics.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  6. #36
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    I think the metaphor works fine for the most part. I think problem stems more from people thinking that a metaphor is more than what it is. By definition, a metaphor is an implied comparison based on some shared characteristics. Its not a one for one swap, and it is not meant to be interchangeable with an existing group. Just that it is similar (in a very superficial way) to some of what those groups may face. The X-Men metaphor is also general enough that one story can be a bit more relatable to a one group while another story my shift more towards another.

    In the X-Men mutants are a persecuted minority, full stop. Its not Black/White or Gay/Straight or any other stand in and in general its not supposed to be, but using a metaphor allows for conversation on those issues without (for the most part) the baggage that comes with using an actual group. It also allows for people from marginalized groups someone to identify with and gives them a hook into the series. Spider-Man used a similar metaphor with Peter Parker as a stand in for the everyman. Obviously not a perfect comparison (you know with super powers and supermodel girlfriends/wife) but he still frequently dealt with relatable problems most superhero's didn't. Things like struggling to pay the rent, a hostile work/ dick for a boss, elder family members health problems, juggling work/school relationships etc.

    You also have to make allowances for the nuances of the medium, specifically superhero comics where almost all problems are solved with punching or laser beams.

    Along those lines while I value the metaphor and wouldn't want to see it lost, not every story needs to be about it. Going back to Claremont, he wrote some amazing stories dealing with racial persecution but he also wrote space operas and ninja fighting underworld stories too so balance is needed. Not every story needs to be about mutants being hated and the comics in general would benefit from more "normal" people who weren't a bunch of racist bastards. That however is, in my opinion a weakness of the writers, not of the metaphor.
    Last edited by Kisinith; 03-17-2016 at 05:24 PM.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    I don't think the minority metaphor works. Mutants don't seem to relate that well to real minorities when Mutants often face the threat of genocide, Mutant hunting robots, and often dangerous powers.
    Um, have you not heard of drones? We have real world flying death machines now. And they are often targeted at brown people across the world.

    The threat mutants represent to baseline humanity is similar in a way to the threat the 99% pose to the 1%, in that the monied elite have had control over the planet for centuries, but now due to the proliferation of technology(which gives voice to the masses), that control is threatened. Humans fear being supplanted by mutants. Westerners fear their bloodlines being supplanted by non-Westerners. Indigenous people all over the world have faced genocide, which continues to this day, in subtle(economic, educational barriers) and not to subtle ways(vaccine-induced sterility, Gaza or Papua New Guinea for example).


    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    There have been genocides since WWII.
    ^Yep.

    Imagine a new age Magneto, but instead of being held in Auschwitz, he comes from the Gaza strip? Or maybe a Muslim that is detained in Guantanamo Bay? Or a Black man beaten by cops and wrongfully imprisoned?

    The metaphor is still incredibly apt. The writing just doesn't take advantage of it anymore. Morrison was doing some very interesting things in his run. No More Mutants closed the door to what could have been a ripe playground for decades. Even after the Phoenix re-ignited the mutants, they never recovered in sufficient numbers to have their own cultures and cities again. X-Haven has not been developed enough to actually address real world refugee crises.

    X-Men works best when it has the social justice metaphor at the core, but also embraces the wholeness of a being. Even as an oppressed minority, you can still have wonder, still fall in love, still make art and find joyous moments. Its the interplay of those two extremes that allow people to enjoy them as a superhero concept that elevates itself beyond just punching bank robbers and getting kittens down from a tree. Since No More Mutants, they have been so focused on pure survival and moral degradation/infighting that it becomes laborsome to actually support them.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  8. #38
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    White people get wrongly beat up all the time, forced signed confessions and get told to stop loitering too. Police brutality is everywhere in the world in every single country.
    Last edited by DDD; 03-17-2016 at 06:35 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    Mutant hunting robots
    Also, Obama has unleashed Drones / Sentinels on the battle field and private drones are pretty much unregulated in America. It's not sci-fi anymore. They are just planes for now, but they still kill all the same. Anyway it's just something to add some flavor or depth to an adventure comic book.

    I understand also why it's tacky having Falcon always confronted with racism for example. It's like when a woman solo always has some rapey back alley scene or the boring she goes to the bar and gets picked on by an ugly loser etc which usually makes me wonder why the heck a woman would even want to read this. But most x-book writers have gotten it right and spared us these sort of things and it's part of the thematic.
    Last edited by DDD; 03-17-2016 at 06:44 PM.

  10. #40
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Well, i think that the X-men these days are more like minorities in the Internet.

  11. #41
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    I think the only real problem with the metaphor is when its applied badly by the writers. We saw a lot of that over the past few years from a lot of the writers. Early on in Bendis's run we did actually get a bit of a good, nuanced use of it. There were people who blindly hated on mutants but you also saw non-mutant supporters and the X-Men acting in an intelligent manner, sadly like just about everything else in his run it eventually spun around and went nowhere but it worked before he went off the rails.

  12. #42
    Mighty Member norj's Avatar
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    Is mutants existed in the real world what would the various U.S presidential candidates stance on them be?
    Last edited by norj; 03-18-2016 at 09:55 AM.

  13. #43
    Take Me Higher The Negative Zone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norj View Post
    Is mutants existed in the real world what would the various U.S presidential candidates stance on them be?
    They'd probably allow racism against Mutants to exist until a civil rights movement for them forms. Basically they wouldn't care until the public cares.

  14. #44
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norj View Post
    Is mutants existed in the real world what would the various U.S presidential candidates stance on them be?
    Well, Trump wouldnt be that different from Senator Kelly.

  15. #45
    Fantastic Member jgprime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    I don't think the minority metaphor works. Mutants don't seem to relate that well to real minorities when Mutants often face the threat of genocide, Mutant hunting robots, and often dangerous powers.
    Minorities worldwide still suffer from huge huge threats such as genocide, hate groups, and systemic exclusion. Yes the minority metaphor doesn't work -that- well with powerful good looking mutants but it works perfectly with harmless mutants who simply look way different from normal humans.

    The X-Men to me are Marvel's best franchise because at their very best they embody the experience of being a minority. It's a shame that Marvel is trying to pursue these themes with the Inhumans cause there is so much fertile ground for socially conscious stories with the X-Men, now more than ever.

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