REVIEW: Wonder Woman Can't Save Dull "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice"

[AcesX1X]

Just saying Superman Returns felt more like watching a Superman movie. Man of Steel just seemed like a generic, big budget CGI action movie that any character could have been inserted in as the hero. He was almost the SW3 Anakin Skywalker in a red cape.

superman returns also made less than 400m in ticket sales. old-fashion superman clearly was a huge turn-off for many. love mos/bvs or hate them, at least their superman gets butts in seats.

[Phil Clark]

Did you say Fant4stic wasn't half as bad as people were making it out to be? Because that's the only way you'd be right about that movie.

Actually, Fant4stic was twice as bad as people were making it out to be IMO. As bad as the Corman Fantastic Four was, it was worlds better than Fant4stic.

[Phil Clark]

superman returns also made less than 400m in ticket sales. old-fashion superman clearly was a huge turn-off for many. love mos/bvs or hate them, at least their superman gets butts in seats.

Returns box-office wasn't due to it being an "old-fashion" Superman. It was due to it being a dark, slow paced remake of the first two Reeve Superman films. It didn't know if it was being a reboot, a remake, a re-imagining or an homage. It featured a clone of the original Lex in yet another real-estate scheme. It showed Superman as a deadbeat dad. It just had a bunch of problems. But so did MoS. The whole reason I still haven't seen BvS is that I didn't like MoS and don't like the direction Snyder seems to be taking the DCCU in.

And to me, the best way to express that dislike to the studio is to spend as little money supporting the movie as possible.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The knock on Superman Returns was the following .


- Did we really need a sequel to the Donner films , nearly 20 years later ?

- The film erased Superman III & IV , but no one really demanding that 20 years later.

- Lex Luthor returns and....does yet another dumb land deal.

- Lack of real action. A big fan complaint was there was no real big action sequences in Superman Returns.



That was some of the big complaints with Superman Returns. There was more of course. Man of Steel seemingly decided to move away from that. Reboot the concept from the ground up and did very well. Actually have action sequences , do big action battles with Superman. One comical complaint was fans were like..."Oh that is too much action ! Its like a video game !" Given that for so many films the action sucked in the Superman films , you'd think they'd be a-ok Superman had that.

While Superman wasn't as good in Batman V Superman , he wasn't terrible. The middle/end parts was the best parts of Superman there. He questions if he is in fact a hero given the after effect of people being hurt in Man of Steel. But as Jonathon Kent explains in a scene where he details that being a hero means the mistakes come with it. That nothing is 100% perfect when you do become a hero.

[Heroine Addict]

It will be interesting seeing how CW does because with its $250M budget announced it is now easy to measure the two against each other. They are the sMe length overall and the same genre, w ith very similar plot points (to a quick glance).

WB will be looking to see how Cap does you can be sure. They know how much they made and will want to see if they got all they could or was there money left at the table? And if so, how much and why didn't they get it? That can then help them moving forward.

Who knowsm maybe this movie really did do as well as it could and CW will do no better.

Well, CW will likely be around, at, or over $700m WW by the end of tonight, if that's any indication. Furthermore, it's very possible it'll have already reached and/or surpassed $1bil, after next weekend is said & done. Of note, Zootopia's ahead both internationally AND also domestically - now - as well, w/TJB on track to do the same. The real interesting thing to watch from here on out, is XMA, and how it performs. It's an unknown quantity at this point, for me, but if it matches - or even beats - BvS, well then... I think the message is clear.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well, CW will likely be around, at, or over $700m WW by the end of tonight, if that's any indication. Furthermore, it's very possible it'll have already reached and/or surpassed $1bil, after next weekend is said & done. Of note, Zootopia's ahead both internationally AND also domestically - now - as well, w/TJB on track to do the same. The real interesting thing to watch from here on out, is XMA, and how it performs. It's an unknown quantity at this point, for me, but if it matches - or even beats - BvS, well then... I think the message is clear.

That it beat Batman V Superman with the entire cast of Avengers involved ? That it was the 8th or 9th film in the series of mainstream Marvel films ? Yes the message is clear...it was expected to do huge based on what they have built on. Judging a 2nd film (and really 1st with DC Film universe connected) to a film series that really is close to Avengers 3 is kinda....a leap here. Everyone expected Civil War to do very damn good. Will it due as much as Disney expects ? Well it remains to be seen. Disney bought into people believing Age of Ultron was gonna challenge Avatar back a few years ago.

[Heroine Addict]

... it was expected to do huge based on what they have built on. ... Everyone expected Civil War to do very damn good.

And expectations for BvS weren't of a similar scope, prior to its realease & subsequent critical/fan reaction (... backlash?)? Besides, I wasn't just comparing it to CW alone, I also mentioned the stellar receptions both Zootopia & TJB have received. Also, the message being more clear, would be derived from XMA outperforming BvS. If it (more than) exceeds estimates like Deadpool did, then it's game over, IMO.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

And expectations for BvS weren't of a similar scope, prior to its realease & subsequent critical/fan reaction (... backlash?)? Besides, I wasn't just comparing it to CW alone, I also mentioned the stellar receptions both Zootopia & TJB have received. Also, the message being more clear, would be derived from XMA outperforming BvS. If it (more than) exceeds estimates like Deadpool did, then it's game over, IMO.

"Its game over..." Uhhh ...looks at Warners state of films. Realizes if that is game over , I'd hate to see what Game On is supposed to be.

Well , X-Men : Days of Future Past did $747+ million. Can Age of Apocalypse catch it ? Its possible since its Singer's last hurrah on the X-Men directing awhile. Plus it has the last possible appearance of Hugh Jackman as Wolverine in an X-Men film. Its possible it can catch $800-900 million.

Batman V Superman as explained pages back sadly has only 1 real money earner in Batman in films. Wonder Woman has never been in films before and Superman had performed weakly in films even to Man of Steel. People expected it to do bigger. But given that Superman III, IV and Returns basically never did huge ...I'm not shocked. The character hasn't done great in a film since the 1st Superman and Superman II. Batman meanwhile has had 7 movies in a 23 year span (more had Clooney's version not under-performed so bad). Superman from 1989-2012 had 1 film lol.

[AcesX1X]

And expectations for BvS weren't of a similar scope, prior to its realease & subsequent critical/fan reaction (... backlash?)? Besides, I wasn't just comparing it to CW alone, I also mentioned the stellar receptions both Zootopia & TJB have received. Also, the message being more clear, would be derived from XMA outperforming BvS. If it (more than) exceeds estimates like Deadpool did, then it's game over, IMO.

some expectations were similar...and some were in the camp of "burning desire to see this film fail no matter what cost"

considering the drastically different expectations, i think the movie netted out very well between the two opposing forces.

[Forseti]

That it beat Batman V Superman with the entire cast of Avengers involved ? That it was the 8th or 9th film in the series of mainstream Marvel films ? Yes the message is clear...it was expected to do huge based on what they have built on. Judging a 2nd film (and really 1st with DC Film universe connected) to a film series that really is close to Avengers 3 is kinda....a leap here. Everyone expected Civil War to do very damn good. Will it due as much as Disney expects ? Well it remains to be seen. Disney bought into people believing Age of Ultron was gonna challenge Avatar back a few years ago.

I'm not judging it as the 'nth' DCEU movie, I'm looking at it as another Zack Snyder movie. I've been predisposed to not spend precious time watching his movies for a while now, because they tend to disappoint.

If they come recommended by people whose tastes I trust, I'll give them a shot. This one didn't.

[Heroine Addict]

"Its game over..." ...

In the sense there's no denying BvS could have - and should have - done better, in all repsects. And that the perception of it being a missed opportunity & falling short of expectations, will be the dominant theme of its historical narrative. Here's hopin' SS, WW, & AquaM do much, to erase the negative association & regain goodwill.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

In the sense there's no denying BvS could have - and should have - done better, in all repsects. And that the perception of it being a missed opportunity & falling short of expectations, will be the dominant theme of its historical narrative. Here's hopin' SS, WW, & AquaM do much, to erase the negative association & regain goodwill.

X3 was supposed to kill the franchise. I think historical narrative will show , beyond critics hating it , the film did better with audiences. In one comical Video game review 2 ladies was discussing Civil War. One went to rip Batman V Superman ..the other cut in . "Well its not terrible and it actually was good for the Batman parts." The other agreed...ok ya got me there.

[kalorama]

"Its game over..." Uhhh ...looks at Warners state of films. Realizes if that is game over , I'd hate to see what Game On is supposed to be.

Well , X-Men : Days of Future Past did $747+ million. Can Age of Apocalypse catch it ? Its possible since its Singer's last hurrah on the X-Men directing awhile. Plus it has the last possible appearance of Hugh Jackman as Wolverine in an X-Men film. Its possible it can catch $800-900 million.

Batman V Superman as explained pages back sadly has only 1 real money earner in Batman in films. Wonder Woman has never been in films before and Superman had performed weakly in films even to Man of Steel. People expected it to do bigger. But given that Superman III, IV and Returns basically never did huge ...I'm not shocked. The character hasn't done great in a film since the 1st Superman and Superman II. Batman meanwhile has had 7 movies in a 23 year span (more had Clooney's version not under-performed so bad). Superman from 1989-2012 had 1 film lol.

This whole idea that BvS should have been the biggest movie ever just because it had Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman in it was always pure fan-think. Those names, in and of themselves, don't have any special pull in the minds/hearts of the majority of non-comics reading moviegoers (who are the majority of moviegoers overall). Sure, they're pop culture icons, but so are Smokey the Bear and Tony the Tiger, and people aren't going to rush to the theater to see movies about them just because. They don't have any particular gravity to non-fans outside whatever existing momentum they've previously generated onscreen and, in the case of BvS, there wasn't that much. The Nolan Batman movies did increasingly well, but that momentum didn't carry over because this was a fresh take unrelated to Nolan. And the last, relevant Superman movie, MOS, did well but not great. And, aside from t-shirts and lunchboxes, Wonder Woman hasn't been an active presence in the minds of most non-comic readers since the Lynda Carter show went off the air.

The movie had its share of flaws (as every movie does) but the notion that it somehow was a failure or squandered some kind of massive innate yearning among the larger audience and fumbled some guaranteed box office haul because it "only" made 7/8 of a billion dollars is just nonsense.

[Guapo Méndez]

This whole idea that BvS should have been the biggest movie ever just because it had Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman in it was always pure fan-think. Those names, in and of themselves, don't have any special pull in the minds/hearts of the majority of non-comics reading moviegoers (who are the majority of moviegoers overall). Sure, they're pop culture icons, but so are Smokey the Bear and Tony the Tiger, and people aren't going to rush to the theater to see movies about them just because. They don't have any particular gravity to non-fans outside whatever existing momentum they've previously generated onscreen and, in the case of BvS, there wasn't that much. The Nolan Batman movies did increasingly well, but that momentum didn't carry over because this was a fresh take unrelated to Nolan. And the last, relevant Superman movie, MOS, did well but not great. And, aside from t-shirts and lunchboxes, Wonder Woman hasn't been an active presence in the minds of most non-comic readers since the Lynda Carter show went off the air.

The movie had its share of flaws (as every movie does) but the notion that it somehow was a failure or squandered some kind of massive innate yearning among the larger audience and fumbled some guaranteed box office haul because it "only" made 7/8 of a billion dollars is just nonsense.

If they do 't have pull, then why have them? Dude, Warner is seeing Mrvel floating in billions, evey movie a hit and a critical darling (or if not a critical darling, at least not reviled as BvS or MoS. Smokey and the Bear and Tony Tiger don't have a 1/1000th if the recognition, pal.

Nolan's momentum didn't carry on because, hello! We've been all over this forever: Superman in not Batman and if yountry to go dark with him, you're gonna mess it up. Which they have.

Whether you like it or not, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are comic-book royalty. Treated right, they billion dollar properties. now, Warner has the style down cold, the special effects...but they're battong .000 on getting the characters right. And that's why they are failing.

Getting 7/8ths of a billion dollars is something to worry about, when your last Batman movie made that, Star Wars broke all records, Guadians of the Galaxy debuted full unknowns and made them household names and frigging Deadpool (with barely a movie to his name) outgrosses BvS domestically with a fraction of the budget and audience.

[GhostPirate]

That it beat Batman V Superman with the entire cast of Avengers involved ? That it was the 8th or 9th film in the series of mainstream Marvel films ? Yes the message is clear...it was expected to do huge based on what they have built on. Judging a 2nd film (and really 1st with DC Film universe connected) to a film series that really is close to Avengers 3 is kinda....a leap here. Everyone expected Civil War to do very damn good. Will it due as much as Disney expects ? Well it remains to be seen. Disney bought into people believing Age of Ultron was gonna challenge Avatar back a few years ago.

/sigh

It's not a leap in any way. You're making incomplete comparisons to benefit your viewpoint is all.

Marvel Studios started literally from scratch 13 movies ago, and they have built their brand over the course of the last 8 years to rival, and arguably surpass, what WB has done as an established industry-leading entity with properties they have held for decades. You might as well say Iron Man failed as a trilogy because it didn't gross as well as Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy, which would be asinine. To say BvS is being slighted by being directly compared with CA: CW really does little more than reflect even more badly on WB. In addition, it once again ignores the myriad of Batman, Superman, DC, and Snyder-led CBMs that have seen theatrical releases. Which, coincidentally, happens to add up to more than 13 even just including the post-Xmen led renaissance of CBMs (3 Nolan, Catwoman, GL, MoS, BvS, Jonah Hex, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Losers, Red 1 & 2, and 300). It's like you're trying to punish Marvel for being visionary and doing well and reward WB for being safe and doing it badly... probably because Batman (or grimdarkness, which once again people ignore had been done to absolute death in CBMs before Iron Man and the MCU found actual *gasp* narrative balance, which apparently internet hipsters nowadays refer to as "Disneyfied kiddie fodder".)

The funny thing is that WB not only had the blueprint before Marvel, but they themselves were the ones that originated it. Am I seriously the only person that remembers the DCAU Timmverse? Successful Batman series led to Superman series, which led to team-ups, led to Justice League led to JLU. Instead of continuing that in cartoons or bringing the concept to the big screen they did what WB always does: defaulted back to their baby blankie property- Batman. Because it seems to take Bat-nipples for any negative criticism of that character to gain traction.