REVIEW: Wonder Woman Can't Save Dull "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice"

[Username taken]

Siiiigh

The critics aren't asking for the DCEU to be like the MCU......they just want good movies with ranges of emotions. Ranges. Of. Emotions. Dark and gritty tends to mean "2 dimensional God of War character #58158409". We don't need Kratos in a Batman costume fighting Kratos in a Superman costume.

Superman's good nature clashes with Batman's views....if you lose that dichotomy, it just devolves into Snyder favorite thing....choosing style over substance.

This guy gets it.

[marvelprince]

This really hits the nail on the head. "It's not like Marvel. Marvel did it like this and it worked. This can't work. It can't be good."

I've always been of the school of thought that any work should be judged on its own merits first and comparisons should be drawn later where they are applicable. We have to remember as humans, we do have inherent biases and it's not always easy to put them aside to judge any work of art. Many critics choose to put their biases at the forefront to the point where we can get Roger Ebert's review for Troy where he complained about the lack of Greek gods and goddesses in the movie. Anyone who watched that movie could tell it was a realistic take on the Trojan War, but that doesn't really stop strange comments from being made. This isn't a statement to necessarily bash critics, but bashing that little thing called preconceived notions. Then again, I come at everything from the perspective of a scientist.

Dude, I want this movie to be good but arguments like this are ridiculous. People don't care about where the movies were coming from. Deadpool was a FOX movie. The same studio that made the godawful F4. Remember that awful Amazing Spider-Man 2? The general public doesn't care about any Marvel vs DC war. They want to be entertained. Jokes, blood or gore won't change the fact that if the movies not good people won't respond. This whole "well they were biased anyway" is just a childish reaction that looks to minimize a persons valid concerns about this film or anything else WB is putting out.

And criticizing audiences for expecting DC to make their films like Marvel's is just blatantly ignoring the fact that WB had fantastic success with their Nolan Batman movies. Although maybe that time audiences were tricked cause they thought they were watching Daredevil so they gave it critical acclaim by accident.

[TooFlyToFail]

If this reviewer has a problem with pacing I can see that being mentioned in Stuckmann's review.

Yeah, I heard the the first 15-20 minutes are kinda choppy.

[dragonmp93]

But that's not the case. Chris Terrio wrote the script....yet people keep focusing on the Snyder style....hell, people are lamenting the fact that Synder has made an character drama, rather than cool over the top action, as their is little action in the movie in contrast to the advertising.

The range of emotions are there. It's just realistic, and these are people who are drowning in defeatism because their actions have reactions have reactions, or being a hero isn't always fun (look at Daredevil....it's relentlessly dark, but that's not a criticism for some reason. Why? Because the story demands it, but with the DCEU it's wrong?).

I don't even see why this is a complaint. The screenwriter came out and said that this is their Empire Strikes Back, well in advanced.

That's because as dark as Daredevil and Jessica Jones are, there is still jokes and sarcastic comments and funny things happening.

[Doctor Know]

That's because as dark as Daredevil and Jessica Jones are, there is still jokes and sarcastic comments and funny things happening.

Did you see the reviews for DD season 2? It has more negatives than season 1, and the reason being is critics didn't like the darkness or violence. Even though both were used constructively to tell the story.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/daredevil/

[Thomas Crown]

Paraphrasing Colonel Jessup (from "A Few Good Men"): "Some people want this movie to fail! Some people need this movie to fail!"

[Paper Monkey]

Dude, I want this movie to be good but arguments like this are ridiculous. People don't care about where the movies were coming from. Deadpool was a FOX movie. The same studio that made the godawful F4. Remember that awful Amazing Spider-Man 2? The general public doesn't care about any Marvel vs DC war. They want to be entertained. Jokes, blood or gore won't change the fact that if the movies not good people won't respond. This whole "well they were biased anyway" is just a childish reaction that looks to minimize a persons valid concerns about this film or anything else WB is putting out.

And criticizing audiences for expecting DC to make their films like Marvel's is just blatantly ignoring the fact that WB had fantastic success with their Nolan Batman movies. Although maybe that time audiences were tricked cause they thought they were watching Daredevil so they gave it critical acclaim by accident.

Excellent point about the general public does not care about Marvel vs DC. Only comic book fans care about that. My two boys don't even know the difference between Marvel and DC characters. When they watched Avengers, they were thinking Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man will all be in the movie (all teaming up with the Hulk). They don't care about the companies. They care about the characters. I believe the general public only want a movie that can highly entertain them like a movie should. Deadpool is a good example. A lot of people didn't go see that movie because he was a Marvel or X-Men character. People heard from other people the movie was good and went to check it out. I know a lot of people who have never picked a comic book up in their life who saw that movie and loved it.

[TooFlyToFail]

Dude, I want this movie to be good but arguments like this are ridiculous. People don't care about where the movies were coming from. Deadpool was a FOX movie. The same studio that made the godawful F4. Remember that awful Amazing Spider-Man 2? The general public doesn't care about any Marvel vs DC war. They want to be entertained. Jokes, blood or gore won't change the fact that if the movies not good people won't respond. This whole "well they were biased anyway" is just a childish reaction that looks to minimize a persons valid concerns about this film or anything else WB is putting out.

And criticizing audiences for expecting DC to make their films like Marvel's is just blatantly ignoring the fact that WB had fantastic success with their Nolan Batman movies. Although maybe that time audiences were tricked cause they thought they were watching Daredevil so they gave it critical acclaim by accident.

Sorry, but I didn't mean so much that this guy is a MCU >> DCEU. I meant that people want that kind of movie. The Russo Bros are the only ones that have deviated, but otherwise the MCU movie hit a tone that people enjoy from comic properties. The DCAU had a very similar tone as well (tho, not as many quips).

The Nolan movies didn't get this criticism, because it doesn't portray Bruce in a way can be considered the character himself being wrong in-story. It also didn't do a great job of specially focusing how being a vigilante can affect one's mindset, and how that can change how the act, and behave. His Bruce had hope, while this one doesn't because of what he's been thru.

This isn't the kind of CBM to take your kids to, and I feel that's greatly affecting the viewpoint of this film. It's Terrio looking at how this affects everyone's psyche (like with Daredevil). It's not fun, and it's literally Dent's line from TDK made real; how the night is always darkest before the dawn.

[TooFlyToFail]

Sorry, but I didn't so much that this guy is a MCU >> DCEU. I meant that people want that kind of movie. The Russo Bros are the only ones that have deviated, but otherwise the MCU movie hit a tone that people enjoy from comic properties. The DCAU had a very similar tone as well (tho, not as many quips).

The Nolan movies didn't get this criticism, because it doesn't portray Bruce in a way can be considered the character himself being wrong in-story. It also didn't do a great job of specially focusing how being a vigilante can affect one's mindset, and how that can change how the act, and behave. His Bruce had hope, while this one doesn't because of what he's been thru.

This isn't the kind of CBM to take your kids to, and I feel that's greatly affecting the viewpoint of this film. It's Terrio looking at how this affects everyone's psyche (like with Daredevil). It's not fun, and it's literally Dent's line from TDK made real; how the night is always darkest before the dawn.

It's not about MCU vs DCEU really, as if this movie was the same, but to a more DCAU approach it'd VERY likely appeal more. People don't go to the movies to see thing kind of story generally; they want fun.

[Ace Venom]

Dude, I want this movie to be good but arguments like this are ridiculous. People don't care about where the movies were coming from. Deadpool was a FOX movie. The same studio that made the godawful F4. Remember that awful Amazing Spider-Man 2? The general public doesn't care about any Marvel vs DC war. They want to be entertained. Jokes, blood or gore won't change the fact that if the movies not good people won't respond. This whole "well they were biased anyway" is just a childish reaction that looks to minimize a persons valid concerns about this film or anything else WB is putting out.

I'm only critical of bias when it leads to comments like in the example of my Troy review. Or when people say the Marvel was is the only way to do it. If it's good, it's good. If it's average, it's average. If it's bad, it's bad. And sometimes it takes a few years for people to really appreciate any type of art. The real question is if the general public will appreciate the film enough now to keep things going.

And criticizing audiences for expecting DC to make their films like Marvel's is just blatantly ignoring the fact that WB had fantastic success with their Nolan Batman movies. Although maybe that time audiences were tricked cause they thought they were watching Daredevil so they gave it critical acclaim by accident.

That criticism is mostly for those who think the only way to make comic book films is to follow the MCU way. Deadpool has kinda proven them wrong, but they do have an axe to grind against anything that isn't MCU. I know this isn't everyone, but you know.

[Batman#22]

I god say isn't so!! Please don't turn this into another FF train wreck. I'm sure this movie will do great in the box office, but hopefully it won't get panned too harshly by critics. If it does tank however, at least hopefully WB/DC will take this as a wake up call to not have all their movies be grim and gritty like The Dark Knight Trilogy. It's not meant to be the answer for all their movies.

[Desean101101]

I've seen the movie myself at the New York Premiere and I can't really understand how people can say its dull at all and having read through the review just assures me that some people really couldn't follow the plot because it wasn't lead by bombastic set pieces. Sigh well its sad we can't have at Movie steeped in DC lore and ask the audience to actually watch the movie and follow the plot points.

Also What the hell you couldn't understand the dream sequences , they were obvious to follow. 2 were just reoccurring nightmares and dreams bruce has to himself and 2 are made by the flash in his scenes. I wont spoil what the flash does but It was pretty obvious what was going on.

[Babs]

I think it is safe to say if you didn't like Man of Steel that you won't like BvS.

I don't know. The thing is, some people who didn't like Man of Steel argue that dark and gritty is Batman's thing, not Superman, and that Man of Steel borrows too much from Nolan's Batman in look, style and tone.
Now having that Man of Steel style and tone in a movie with Batman in it might actually work for those people.

Now, as someone who became a fan of Batman through the Burton films and BTAS, i can say that Ben Affleck's portrayal of Batman is what i'm looking forward to the most in this film.


But beyond Batman, i also feel that Superman could have been a little less dark and gritty from what we've seen in MoS and the BvS trailers so far. Even if you go by Zack Snyder's words that "comicbook fans know my Superman is close to the comics", Batman V Superman should be Alpha versus Omega. Dark versus Light.
I may be paraphrasing here, but i believe it was in one of the Timm/Dini animated shows where they said that the difference between Gotham and Metropolis is that in Gotham people are afraid to look to the sky while in Metropolis they look to the sky for hope. AKA the key difference between Batman and Superman, and how the public sees them.

In my honest opinion, i think that Ben Affleck should have been in his own Batman movie first, and Henry Cavill deserved at least one more Man of Steel film to explore and showcase the personality of his Superman.

I also think that Batman works best in a dark and gritty setting, and i think we all know this all too well, however, when it comes to other superheroes, the thing is HEY EVERYONE!

[Desean101101]

I god say isn't so!! Please don't turn this into another FF train wreck. I'm sure this movie will do great in the box office, but hopefully it won't get panned too harshly by critics. If it does tank however, at least hopefully WB/DC will take this as a wake up call to not have all their movies be grim and gritty like The Dark Knight Trilogy. It's not meant to be the answer for all their movies.

The movie is nowhere near Fantastic Four levels, It is really just sad that you think the movies tone is Dark Knight trilogy and its not. The Tone of it Is the Tone of the General DC Comics universe, serious with politics and fantastical things in the background for the most part. Its only going to get more Fantastical as the movies go in so maybe you need to see the movie for yourself. Preferably twice because the First viewing you will be able to follow everything and catch what is happening in the background of the plot and the second time you will most likely catch all of the hints of the even greater back drop and puppet master. There is only a few reviewers that even picked up on through the whole movie and that just makes me sad.

[BertoFlyingFox]

But that's not the case. Chris Terrio wrote the script....yet people keep focusing on the Snyder style....hell, people are lamenting the fact that Synder has made an character drama, rather than cool over the top action, as their is little action in the movie in contrast to the advertising.

The range of emotions are there. It's just realistic, and these are people who are drowning in defeatism because their actions have reactions, people don't like their interference, or being a hero isn't always fun (look at Daredevil....it's relentlessly dark, but that's not a criticism for some reason. Why? Because the story demands it, but with the DCEU it's wrong?).

I don't even see why this is a complaint. The screenwriter came out and said that this is their Empire Strikes Back, well in advanced.

The script isn't what I'm criticizing, it's the scenes, cuts, and overall camera shots. Snyder favors style over substance, super hero poses over meaningful conflict.

I haven't seen all of Daredevil season2, but there's already a dichotomy between DD and Punisher, the very same one Bats and Supes *should* have. Also DD is TV-MA, they can show more than PG-13.....and PG-13's "dark and gritty" is nothing more than glowering faces and growls.