REVIEW: Wonder Woman Can't Save Dull "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice"

[Desean101101]

I don't know. The thing is, some people who didn't like Man of Steel argue that dark and gritty is Batman's thing, not Superman, and that Man of Steel borrows too much from Nolan's Batman in look, style and tone.
Now having that Man of Steel style and tone in a movie with Batman in it might actually work for those people.

Now, as someone who became a fan of Batman through the Burton films and BTAS, i can say that Ben Affleck's portrayal of Batman is what i'm looking forward to the most in this film.


But beyond Batman, i also feel that Superman could have been a little less dark and gritty from what we've seen in MoS and the BvS trailers so far. Even if you go by Zack Snyder's words that "comicbook fans know my Superman is close to the comics", Batman V Superman should be Alpha versus Omega. Dark versus Light.
I may be paraphrasing here, but i believe it was in one of the Timm/Dini animated shows where they said that the difference between Gotham and Metropolis is that in Gotham people are afraid to look to the sky while in Metropolis they look to the sky for hope. AKA the key difference between Batman and Superman, and how the public sees them.

In my honest opinion, i think that Ben Affleck should have been in his own Batman movie first, and Henry Cavill deserved at least one more Man of Steel film to explore and showcase the personality of his Superman.

I also think that Batman works best in a dark and gritty setting, and i think we all know this all too well, however, when it comes to other superheroes, the thing is HEY EVERYONE!

Superman is way less dark in this one, he just keeps getting caught in political snares as he saves people that end up with him getting criticized by alot of people in the movie. He is a bit sloppy sometimes but for the most part he is just trying to help humanity and they keep punching him in the balls about it and that makes him sad. But sorry Superman can never be sad or disappointed that people don't understand that he is just trying to help.

Batman is ultra scary in this movie. His opening scene is terrifying and dark and Is a Must see.

[TooFlyToFail]

The script isn't what I'm criticizing, it's the scenes, cuts, and overall camera shots. Snyder favors style over substance, super hero poses over meaningful conflict.

I haven't seen all of Daredevil season2, but there's already a dichotomy between DD and Punisher, the very same one Bats and Supes *should* have. Also DD is TV-MA, they can show more than PG-13.....and PG-13's "dark and gritty" is nothing more than glowering faces and growls.

Sure, but the dichotomy is dark (Daredevil), and darker (Punisher), and it has nothing to do with the TV-MA action, but what they represent. This movie is exactly that, but on a wider scale. Superman isn't the hope he will be, because he's yet to accept himself as that, and the world in the movie (like the real world it's based off of) is a afraid of change, let alone literal gods walking among us.

Also, while you say style over substance, there are negative reviews that lament that this movie puts the action, and style, to the side for much of the movie.

It's looking like people just didn't want this thing to be good, and that's clearly been apparent, since it was announced. I'm not even a Superman fan, and I have to defend MoS because it didn't go the safe route everyone wanted.

[TooFlyToFail]

Superman is way less dark in this one, he just keeps getting caught in political snares as he saves people that end up with him getting criticized by alot of people in the movie. He is a bit sloppy sometimes but for the most part he is just trying to help humanity and they keep punching him in the balls about it and that makes him sad. But sorry Superman can never be sad or disappointed that people don't understand that he is just trying to help.

Batman is ultra scary in this movie. His opening scene is terrifying and dark and Is a Must see.

Exactly! Why can't people grasp that?

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I god say isn't so!! Please don't turn this into another FF train wreck. I'm sure this movie will do great in the box office, but hopefully it won't get panned too harshly by critics. If it does tank however, at least hopefully WB/DC will take this as a wake up call to not have all their movies be grim and gritty like The Dark Knight Trilogy. It's not meant to be the answer for all their movies.

I'd say it all boils down to whether DC/Warner Bros. wants BvS to be a critical success, or a box office success. I suspect it won't be both, given the early reviews, but that could change. Bottom line, the movie is going to make boatloads of cash, that much is a certainty, it's just not going to be all that loved, beyond the built in fandom of course.

[dragonmp93]

I'm only critical of bias when it leads to comments like in the example of my Troy review. Or when people say the Marvel was is the only way to do it. If it's good, it's good. If it's average, it's average. If it's bad, it's bad. And sometimes it takes a few years for people to really appreciate any type of art. The real question is if the general public will appreciate the film enough now to keep things going.



That criticism is mostly for those who think the only way to make comic book films is to follow the MCU way. Deadpool has kinda proven them wrong, but they do have an axe to grind against anything that isn't MCU. I know this isn't everyone, but you know.

Well, Deadpool is pretty much the R-rated version of the MCU way.

The script isn't what I'm criticizing, it's the scenes, cuts, and overall camera shots. Snyder favors style over substance, super hero poses over meaningful conflict.

I haven't seen all of Daredevil season2, but there's already a dichotomy between DD and Punisher, the very same one Bats and Supes *should* have. Also DD is TV-MA, they can show more than PG-13.....and PG-13's "dark and gritty" is nothing more than glowering faces and growls.

Or the one that Flash and Green Arrow have.

Superman is way less dark in this one, he just keeps getting caught in political snares as he saves people that end up with him getting criticized by alot of people in the movie. He is a bit sloppy sometimes but for the most part he is just trying to help humanity and they keep punching him in the balls about it and that makes him sad. But sorry Superman can never be sad or disappointed that people don't understand that he is just trying to help.

Batman is ultra scary in this movie. His opening scene is terrifying and dark and Is a Must see.

Even the Avengers have that problem, ýou know.

[Desean101101]

Even the Avengers have that problem, ýou know.

Go see the film, They don't nearly as much **** for the things they have done in other countries than superman does in just this movie. He is the sole superhero to the world and because of that his every move is criticized by the public.

[The Kid]

Critics are not biased in favor of Marvel. If they were, TDK wouldn't be considered the holy grail of superhero movies by these critics. X-Men: DOFP, a very serious and intense movie, would not have gotten great reviews.

Snyder is just a bad director. Watch, Suicide Squad will probably do good because Ayer is a great filmmaker. But Snyder can't keep getting chance after chance

[Mars452]

Judging from this and other reviews, I think I'm just going to wait until Wonder Woman comes out (that's not being directed by Snyder, right?) and hold off on seeing this one in theaters.

[dragonmp93]

I don't know. The thing is, some people who didn't like Man of Steel argue that dark and gritty is Batman's thing, not Superman, and that Man of Steel borrows too much from Nolan's Batman in look, style and tone.
Now having that Man of Steel style and tone in a movie with Batman in it might actually work for those people.

Now, as someone who became a fan of Batman through the Burton films and BTAS, i can say that Ben Affleck's portrayal of Batman is what i'm looking forward to the most in this film.


But beyond Batman, i also feel that Superman could have been a little less dark and gritty from what we've seen in MoS and the BvS trailers so far. Even if you go by Zack Snyder's words that "comicbook fans know my Superman is close to the comics", Batman V Superman should be Alpha versus Omega. Dark versus Light.
I may be paraphrasing here, but i believe it was in one of the Timm/Dini animated shows where they said that the difference between Gotham and Metropolis is that in Gotham people are afraid to look to the sky while in Metropolis they look to the sky for hope. AKA the key difference between Batman and Superman, and how the public sees them.

In my honest opinion, i think that Ben Affleck should have been in his own Batman movie first, and Henry Cavill deserved at least one more Man of Steel film to explore and showcase the personality of his Superman.

I also think that Batman works best in a dark and gritty setting, and i think we all know this all too well, however, when it comes to other superheroes, the thing is HEY EVERYONE!

And talking about dichotomies, i wonder if Supergirl is going to be the Wonder Woman to Barry's Superman and Oliver's Batman.

[TooFlyToFail]

Critics are not biased in favor of Marvel. If they were, TDK wouldn't be considered the holy grail of superhero movies by these critics. X-Men: DOFP, a very serious and intense movie, would not have gotten great reviews.

Snyder is just a bad director. Watch, Suicide Squad will probably do good because Ayer is a great filmmaker. But Snyder can't keep getting chance after chance

Again, it's not about the MCU. It's the tone, and the subject matter. If it was treated like the DCAU, these movies would be accepted better because they appeal to people, naturally.

In the DCAU, and the original Superman movies, Supes can fight in cities, kill, and destroy cities because they DON'T show the civilians running for their lives, or being crushed, or being trapped and crying for help. They don't show the government having an issue with vigilantes running around without jurisdiction as being a VALID point, but rather the bad guys to be rooted against. Reeves' Supes can kill DEPOWERED Zod, because the tone of the movie is hardly serious, Zod acts like a fool, and Supes smiles as he does it. In MoS, you have desperate man, doing desperate things to bring his people back and it's treated seriously. In MoS, and BvS, Supes has to learn to see himself as the hope of the world before we can see him as that, and the world needs to adjust. PEople just want all that to happen WITHOUT it being addressed.

In the Nolan movies even, Bruce is constantly shown as the ideal. They DO NOT delve into how fighting a futile war for years can affect the human psyche, and Ben Affleck's Bruce has LOST people he loves during that war, and believes it was all for naught. That has changed him, and him being the messed up person he is, is the movie is the of the movie. He's wrong, yet critics see that as a negative.

It is ALL about the tone, and subject matter.

[Prime]

Snyder needs to go. I really want a great Superman movie where everyone can see how wonderful he really is.

[Colossus1980]

Unfortunately all the negative reviews might hamper the future plans of the DC movies. BVS should cross over a billion but if it leaves moviegoers less than thrilled, it sure doesn't look that promising for the other films. Suicide Squad looks more like a critical darling but probably won't have the financial success of BVS.

[TooFlyToFail]

Snyder needs to go. I really want a great Superman movie where everyone can see how wonderful he really is.

Wait until Justice League....which is their Return of the Jedi...it's being built up to that, and even confirmed to be the movie where the tone in the end is that of hopefulness.

[Indian Ink]

Haven't seen the film yet, but I think that any film that takes a serious route for superheroes has to keep a tighter rein on the plot holes. If it's a light fun film, ie; The Avengers, the critics will give it some slack, because you know it's not serious. But if you make it more realistic, then so in accordance with this, the characters have to be more filled out and the plot has to make sense. Heaven help you from the critics if you just make 'realism' a style.

[dragonmp93]

Wait until Justice League....which is their Return of the Jedi...it's being built up to that, and even confirmed to be the movie where the tone in the end is that of hopefulness.

Well, that was also the message of Neon Genesis Evangelion...............................