Wonder Woman in Batman Versus Superman SPOILERS

[Lex Luthor]

My biggest concern going into the Wonder Woman movie is the decision to have Diana go into hiding/retirement for the previous 100 years. I think, the concept that Diana was in retirement during World War II is not really a positive for the character. It makes her seem a bit less heroic to me, if she could have done something and chose not to. I'm not sure I like that, as it would have been a better idea in my eyes to leave that open ended as that could be something else to explore later. Saying she was completely absent though, from a war that involved genocide of men women and children is a bit of a struggle for me. If it were explained that she flat out could not have been there due to another mission or task, that'd be one thing, but this version seems to have given up on people in general. Yes, she talks of the world of man, but it also includes women and children.I think too many of these superhero movies are forcing the concept that the hero wants to give up. Despite whatever tragedy WW may have suffered in her life, her simply quitting on the entire planet has me concerned. Other then that though, I'm completely fine with the performance of Gal Gadot and am hopeful for the WW movie. Though I can understand that from a character standpoint, I think it undercuts their gravitas as a hero. Maybe that's just me though.

You can't blame characters for the actions of others and also they can't be perfect you got to let them be humans

[Agent 86]

For the bolded point, I don't think that's entirely fair. Clark doesn't know anything about Diana up until that point, and while Bruce does know there's something strange about her, he doesn't know she's only a tier below (if that) Clark in terms of strength or any of her other capabilities. I doubt he knows anything about Hippolyta, the Amazons or the Greek gods playing any role in this strange woman's history. Why should he? That's way outside his wheelhouse.

I was just joking around. Although, I still think that Superman could have been a little clearer about asking Batman for help. After all, Superman could have just swooped in, grabbed Batman by the foot, taken him high up into the air and held Batman by his leg as he explained that Lex Luthor was behind the attacks in Africa and Capital Hill (if Superman knew that, maybe Lois Lane hadn't communicated that to him yet) and that Luthor had also kidnapped Martha Kent and was threatening to burn her alive unless Superman killed Batman. But, the title of the movie was " Batman v Superman", so they had to fight!

[Pamp_Lusa]

I would certainly be disappointed if Wonder Woman caught wind of the Holocaust and didn't lift a finger to help out against the Nazis, hopefully they'll explain that the news didn't travel to Paradise Island.

[Lex Luthor]

I would certainly be disappointed if Wonder Woman caught wind of the Holocaust and didn't lift a finger to help out against the Nazis, hopefully they'll explain that the news didn't travel to Paradise Island.

that wouldnt be her fault at all nor would that say anything about her as a character this is the same "superman is the reason for metropolis being destroyed" logic people use against mos

[DisneyWWfan]

To me,it is not in any way similar to the Superman/Man of Steel Metropolis battle. The only way they are comparable is that a lot of innocent lives died. Yes, if she was retired for 100 years, she wasn't present for the attack on Metropolis, but Metropolis happened literally in the course of one day/week at most. World War II was years of bloody conflict.

The difference to me, is Superman DID try to save people, by stopping Zod. Albeit, there was a lot of collateral damage, and it possibly could have been done better, but he was against a foe that himself was quite powerful and destructive.

However if in World War II, a warrior who is driven by Justice and equality, turns a cold shoulder to the absolute atrocity of World War II without even lifting a finger, that to me would be a problem. Very similar to Spider-Man's with great power comes great responsibility (Of Spidey turning a cold shoulder to the man who would kill his uncle), except this would be on a global scale. They've portrayed it as Wonder Woman turning her back on "Man," but in fact she'd be turning her back on everything, including who she was. Why would she act when Doomsday was present, and not when the Holocaust was happening. If anything it's debatable Diana could stop Doomsday, it is not deniable that a being of WW powers and skills would have saved hundreds of innocent men, women, and children, barely even trying. The concentration camps of WWII were some of the most heinous actions in recent history. The camps themselves were not directly tied to combat, but were simply the Nazis going out and decalring genocide on a group of people. If that's not something Wonder Woman would care about, I don't really know what would be. Yes, Wonder Woman always stands up for and helps saves the innocent, but she also has always stood up for equality, and what the Nazis were doing, was the opposite of equality. They literally were killing people solely because of who they were. It wasn't an accident, it wasn't a natural disaster, or even an alien invasion, or act of war. It was one group of people systematically imprisoning and then killing off millions of innocent and powerless, bound people. It wasn't people killed in collateral damage (though there were a ton of those as well), but this was an organized means of killing defenseless people, for years.

The only way I can compare it to Man of Steel is if Superman just shrugged his shoulders and let Zod kill millions, while he hid in obscurity (which he did not do, he turned himself in). The way they paint this Wonder Woman, smiling when she faces a challenge, that to me portrays never backing down from a fight. A hero stands up for those who can't protect themselves. Even had she not been active in the battle directly, her actions at various camps would have made a massive difference. Even if it wasn't actual combat, but directly about saving people. Hopefully they explain it as she is not made aware of it, though that would be unlikely, or she is elsewhere.

I can't really 100% get behind a Wonder Woman who turns her back on the world. She cares too much about life. She may have a right to stop, but her fundamental personality, in my eyes, would never allow it. I'm not saying she wouldn't have reasons to debate it, or to even do it for periods of time, but the Holocaust and WWII? To me, if Diana was even remotely made aware of what was going on, specifically because of the concentration camps in this individual instance, and just shrugged it off, that would be a great tragedy for the character. I would assume she would do what she did on the plane in this movie, and that is, get out there and make a difference.

In truth, the only thing I can genuinely come up with, though my creativity isn't spectacular, is that Wonder Woman was taking the fight directly to Ares during World War II, and that's why she wasn't present on the battlefields or arenas of conflict during the war. Anything other then something similar to that, and I'm going to find it difficult. It's not about a character being "always perfect", it's about what stirs that characters actions. Most superheroic characters I can't imagine turning their backs on World War II, but Wonder Woman would be one of the last ones I would. I can't imagine a Diana that isn't revolted by the actions of that war and does nothing to help. My view of Diana, if made aware of it (and it's really a struggle to conceptualize not getting wind of WWII), would be absolute rage, disgust and anger, to the point it'd be difficult to hold her back. The other Amazons on the other hand though, I completely can accept them shying away from it, but not Diana.

[Lex Luthor]

To me,it is not in any way similar to the Superman/Man of Steel Metropolis battle. The only way they are comparable is that a lot of innocent lives died. Yes, if she was retired for 100 years, she wasn't present for the attack on Metropolis, but Metropolis happened literally in the course of one day/week at most. World War II was years of bloody conflict.

The difference to me, is Superman DID try to save people, by stopping Zod. Albeit, there was a lot of collateral damage, and it possibly could have been done better, but he was against a foe that himself was quite powerful and destructive.

However if in World War II, a warrior who is driven by Justice and equality, turns a cold shoulder to the absolute atrocity of World War II without even lifting a finger, that to me would be a problem. Very similar to Spider-Man's with great power comes great responsibility (Of Spidey turning a cold shoulder to the man who would kill his uncle), except this would be on a global scale. They've portrayed it as Wonder Woman turning her back on "Man," but in fact she'd be turning her back on everything, including who she was. Why would she act when Doomsday was present, and not when the Holocaust was happening. If anything it's debatable Diana could stop Doomsday, it is not deniable that a being of WW powers and skills would have saved hundreds of innocent men, women, and children, barely even trying. The concentration camps of WWII were some of the most heinous actions in recent history. The camps themselves were not directly tied to combat, but were simply the Nazis going out and decalring genocide on a group of people. If that's not something Wonder Woman would care about, I don't really know what would be. Yes, Wonder Woman always stands up for and helps saves the innocent, but she also has always stood up for equality, and what the Nazis were doing, was the opposite of equality. They literally were killing people solely because of who they were. It wasn't an accident, it wasn't a natural disaster, or even an alien invasion, or act of war. It was one group of people systematically imprisoning and then killing off millions of innocent and powerless, bound people. It wasn't people killed in collateral damage (though there were a ton of those as well), but this was an organized means of killing defenseless people, for years.

The only way I can compare it to Man of Steel is if Superman just shrugged his shoulders and let Zod kill millions, while he hid in obscurity (which he did not do, he turned himself in). The way they paint this Wonder Woman, smiling when she faces a challenge, that to me portrays never backing down from a fight. A hero stands up for those who can't protect themselves. Even had she not been active in the battle directly, her actions at various camps would have made a massive difference. Even if it wasn't actual combat, but directly about saving people. Hopefully they explain it as she is not made aware of it, though that would be unlikely, or she is elsewhere.

I can't really 100% get behind a Wonder Woman who turns her back on the world. She cares too much about life. She may have a right to stop, but her fundamental personality, in my eyes, would never allow it. I'm not saying she wouldn't have reasons to debate it, or to even do it for periods of time, but the Holocaust and WWII? To me, if Diana was even remotely made aware of what was going on, specifically because of the concentration camps in this individual instance, and just shrugged it off, that would be a great tragedy for the character. I would assume she would do what she did on the plane in this movie, and that is, get out there and make a difference.

In truth, the only thing I can genuinely come up with, though my creativity isn't spectacular, is that Wonder Woman was taking the fight directly to Ares during World War II, and that's why she wasn't present on the battlefields or arenas of conflict during the war. Anything other then something similar to that, and I'm going to find it difficult. It's not about a character being "always perfect", it's about what stirs that characters actions. Most superheroic characters I can't imagine turning their backs on World War II, but Wonder Woman would be one of the last ones I would. I can't imagine a Diana that isn't revolted by the actions of that war and does nothing to help. My view of Diana, if made aware of it (and it's really a struggle to conceptualize not getting wind of WWII), would be absolute rage, disgust and anger, to the point it'd be difficult to hold her back. The other Amazons on the other hand though, I completely can accept them shying away from it, but not Diana.

its similar in the sense that you are blaming her for things that she didnt cause. she cant be at fault for every horror that exists even if she knows of it and its not unreasonable to wash your hands of a world that creates such atrocities as this. this particular diana is jaded and too hurt by the world around her to participate any more so she leaves mans world and doesnt come back for 100 years. i understand people want her to always be the hero but given the more realistic and more humanizing tone of the dceu and the general concept of these characters not being infallible it makes 100% sense that even if she knew of atrocities that she just doesnt have the mental stability to handle the problem or face the evils of man world.

[Agent 86]

My biggest concern going into the Wonder Woman movie is the decision to have Diana go into hiding/retirement for the previous 100 years. I think, the concept that Diana was in retirement during World War II is not really a positive for the character.

I guess we'll need to see what happens at the end of her solo movie to really judge Wonder Woman's actions between the end of WW1 and the "present day" events of Dawn of Justice. Maybe Diana retreated to Themyscira and the Amazons mutually agreed to stop monitoring man's world so they didn't have any knowledge of WW2 and other terrible events? Maybe Diana remained in man's world and assisted during WW2 in less openly heroic ways, for example, working as a nurse on the battlefield, acting as a humanitarian and fund raising for various charitable purposes, working for the League of Nations, working for the Special Operations Executives (SOE) as a spy / agent, working for the Red Cross, etc.

Based on the fact that Diana is extremely familiar with and comfortable in man's world in DoJ, I suspect that she remained in man's world, or at least frequently visited it. As such, unless the Wonder Woman movie establishes otherwise, I'll just pretend that Wonder Woman worked for the SOE during WW2. I think it's a bit much to expect Diana to single-handedly stop WW2. Sure, Superman and others fought Hitler in the comics, but that's somewhat implausible. Even in the solo movie, I don't think we'll see Diana taking on the armies of the Central Powers. Wonder Woman is an Amazing Amazon, but stopping world wars is potentially a bridge too far.

[Agent Z]

This...this just made me smile sooooooo much

Very spoilerific, tho', so you've been warned!

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/29/1132312...n-wonder-woman

This was too damn good. I almost wish we got something like this in the movie.

[Agent Z]

To me,it is not in any way similar to the Superman/Man of Steel Metropolis battle. The only way they are comparable is that a lot of innocent lives died. Yes, if she was retired for 100 years, she wasn't present for the attack on Metropolis, but Metropolis happened literally in the course of one day/week at most. World War II was years of bloody conflict.

The difference to me, is Superman DID try to save people, by stopping Zod. Albeit, there was a lot of collateral damage, and it possibly could have been done better, but he was against a foe that himself was quite powerful and destructive.

However if in World War II, a warrior who is driven by Justice and equality, turns a cold shoulder to the absolute atrocity of World War II without even lifting a finger, that to me would be a problem. Very similar to Spider-Man's with great power comes great responsibility (Of Spidey turning a cold shoulder to the man who would kill his uncle), except this would be on a global scale. They've portrayed it as Wonder Woman turning her back on "Man," but in fact she'd be turning her back on everything, including who she was. Why would she act when Doomsday was present, and not when the Holocaust was happening. If anything it's debatable Diana could stop Doomsday, it is not deniable that a being of WW powers and skills would have saved hundreds of innocent men, women, and children, barely even trying. The concentration camps of WWII were some of the most heinous actions in recent history. The camps themselves were not directly tied to combat, but were simply the Nazis going out and decalring genocide on a group of people. If that's not something Wonder Woman would care about, I don't really know what would be. Yes, Wonder Woman always stands up for and helps saves the innocent, but she also has always stood up for equality, and what the Nazis were doing, was the opposite of equality. They literally were killing people solely because of who they were. It wasn't an accident, it wasn't a natural disaster, or even an alien invasion, or act of war. It was one group of people systematically imprisoning and then killing off millions of innocent and powerless, bound people. It wasn't people killed in collateral damage (though there were a ton of those as well), but this was an organized means of killing defenseless people, for years.

The only way I can compare it to Man of Steel is if Superman just shrugged his shoulders and let Zod kill millions, while he hid in obscurity (which he did not do, he turned himself in). The way they paint this Wonder Woman, smiling when she faces a challenge, that to me portrays never backing down from a fight. A hero stands up for those who can't protect themselves. Even had she not been active in the battle directly, her actions at various camps would have made a massive difference. Even if it wasn't actual combat, but directly about saving people. Hopefully they explain it as she is not made aware of it, though that would be unlikely, or she is elsewhere.

I can't really 100% get behind a Wonder Woman who turns her back on the world. She cares too much about life. She may have a right to stop, but her fundamental personality, in my eyes, would never allow it. I'm not saying she wouldn't have reasons to debate it, or to even do it for periods of time, but the Holocaust and WWII? To me, if Diana was even remotely made aware of what was going on, specifically because of the concentration camps in this individual instance, and just shrugged it off, that would be a great tragedy for the character. I would assume she would do what she did on the plane in this movie, and that is, get out there and make a difference.

In truth, the only thing I can genuinely come up with, though my creativity isn't spectacular, is that Wonder Woman was taking the fight directly to Ares during World War II, and that's why she wasn't present on the battlefields or arenas of conflict during the war. Anything other then something similar to that, and I'm going to find it difficult. It's not about a character being "always perfect", it's about what stirs that characters actions. Most superheroic characters I can't imagine turning their backs on World War II, but Wonder Woman would be one of the last ones I would. I can't imagine a Diana that isn't revolted by the actions of that war and does nothing to help. My view of Diana, if made aware of it (and it's really a struggle to conceptualize not getting wind of WWII), would be absolute rage, disgust and anger, to the point it'd be difficult to hold her back. The other Amazons on the other hand though, I completely can accept them shying away from it, but not Diana.

I don't think she could have stopped something like the Holocaust from happening simply because of her powers. Especially since she can't be everywhere at once. And who's to say the Nazis wouldn't have had a weapon of their own like the Spear of Destiny?

[Titan Theo]

Maybe WW retreated back to PI during the holocaust where they care little about the happenings of the world.

On a side note, I dread the interpretation of the amazons being a backward nation in terns of technology and I hope they are all as powerful as WW, like how the creator intended them to be. I really think the best compromise is to have PI surrounded by pristine forests in its border, then the center of the island is the advanced city of the amazons with technology advanced as alien races, and the center of the city is old Themyscira wherein rituals, festivties, celebrations are held, and traditional garb is required as part of their customs. How can they protect man's world if their enemies have far more advanced technology than they can? If they are all at least as powerful as WW, then perhaps the advanced tech won't be necessary.

TT

[enish]

Well, if their magically enhanced weapons can be understood as advanced tech, there you go, they can protect the world!

Personnaly, I want the amazons to be more mystical, leave the technological aspects to others like the New Gods or the Atlanteans.

[Cowtools]

I finally saw this movie last night.
Wonder Woman was the only respectful or enjoyable element of it. So I guess I'm still looking forward to her solo movie, though with some trepidation, depending on how involved in it are the monsters who made BvS.

[MrHashasheen]

Saw this last night, Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman was quite enjoyable. While her "dash/speed" movement was very much a Snyderism, it just seemed like a perfect fit and far more interesting to give her than a flight ability ala the Kryptonians. It lends to one of the films cool yet not overused visuals, and will be a boon when her own film comes around. She was pretty much the MVP of the Doomsday fight, though I will say that I don't particularly care for how she and the other metahumans were cameo'd in video/picture format. That could have been used to hype for Justice League!

RE WW not being around for the Holocaust, it's very much possible she was traumatized by the massive casualty rate of WW1 and returned home to Themiscyra until the events of Man of Steel. Or considering her words of fighting creatures from different worlds, she may well have been on another world for decades. It's too early to wonder about that, pun intended.

[Agent Z]

Well, if their magically enhanced weapons can be understood as advanced tech, there you go, they can protect the world!

Personnaly, I want the amazons to be more mystical, leave the technological aspects to thers like the New Gods or the Atlanteans.

There's no reason you can't use magic and technology. Atlantis does that too.

[enish]

There's no reason you can't use magic and technology. Atlantis does that too.

It's true! But I feel like it would be too redundant if all the mysterious people use both magic and technology. It's something I didn't like in Thor, the fact that magic didn't seem to be that much important compared to the tech aspect. It didn't even seem to be magic to me.

For the Amazons, I'm a bit torn, because I liked Jimenez's version but I see something more in line with all their stuffs just blessed by the gods, with mystical properties in them, but I would not want magic to be like that of Constantine or Doctor Fate either.