Wonder Woman #50...discus! (spoilers if someone spoils...)

[wonder39]

SO........ since no one has started this thread, I guess I will-- Ish #50...thoughts?

The backup story was DREADFUL imo...

[My Two Cents]

Which one?
The one on the last few pages of issue #50 or
the last 14 full issues and annual

[wonder39]

Which one?
The one on the last few pages of issue #50 or
the last 14 full issues and annual

well everything since the nu52 has be horrible...however I'm talking about the last few pages of #50...

[Harpsikord]

Honestly? The last few pages of 50 weren't as good as they could have been but it was at least enjoyable - and it was actually a semi-decent story up until the way that it ended.

The rest of this book, though, was trash. At least Donna's design is rad as hell.

[Dr. Poison]

I really enjoyed this issue. Finally - an all out battle between Diana and Ares in the New 52. While I still don't think Ares' New 52 design is the best, Finch makes it look much grander and intimidating than Chiang did. I really loved the line Diana used "The only thing you're leaving with is a black eye!" right before she knocked Ares on his @$$.

The story with Donna was interesting especially where she mentions she stepped out of the cauldron *back* on to Themyscira which leads me to believe that she was Wonder Girl years ago and Mr. Twister made everyone including Diana forget about her before Hecate brought Donna back to life with her Hippolyte-stew.

[Doctor Bifrost]

The backup story was DREADFUL imo...

Have to agree with you there.

Donna, consumed with guilt and doubt, tries to make sense of her visions (and can't). Finally decides to save a boy who is drowning, despite her vague visions making her reluctant to do even that much heroing. Lo and behold, he kills some guy and is killed in turn. But: through no plan, effort, or knowledge of Donna's, it turns out that the guy he killed was keeping three women hostage as sex slaves (it is implied) for years, and now they're released. (If this is meant to be "ironic," it didn't do much for me.)

Maybe this is supposed to represent Donna's nature as Fate, but what she sets out to accomplish (saving the boy) ends in tragedy (boy and man killed), and what she doesn't set out to accomplish -saving the women, who she doesn't even know about - just sort of happens.

Previously, Donna tried to save Violet, and got her killed.

And, of course, last issue, Wonder Woman was so consumed by guilt and doubt that she stood around while something fell on her head and knocked her out. And in a previous issue she went after Cheetah, but found out the best thing to do was just back off, so Cheetah could enter the wrong temple and defeat herself. (And then run off without Wonder Woman holding her responsible for killing a bunch of Amazons.) Things would have turned out the same if Wonder Woman hadn't been in that story.

Diana and Donna, who are supposed to be the two main characters in these stories, are more like accidents waiting to happen. Things just sort of happen around them, whether they intend them or not. As a reader, I'm finding it boring and frustrating.

***

Also, although I am very unhappy with the way Azzarello changed the thematic and symbolic underpinnings of Wonder Woman and her mythos, at least his story arc made sense to me. Now I sort of feel that I don't know what's going on, or supposed to be going on. Take immortality (please!): there are different ways that word is used in fiction, of course. In The New 52, the gods seemed immortal in the sense that they didn't grow old, and they were very difficult to kill - it took some deific artifact and/or level of power. But Diana killed Ares, and his position as God of War passed to her. And all the other gods nodded, like, yes, that's how these things work. Which of course suggests that other gods have been killed in the past, because otherwise how would they know? And Apollo got killed too.

But it turns out that that was only happening because the Fates were fading. Now, with Donna taking over the Fates' place (and properly empowered by Gaea), the gods are truly immortal! They can't die; they can't be, or stay, dead. Ares and Apollo simply popped back up alive, unceremoniously, because with Fate on the job the gods can't die (or be dead).

Okay.... But now Hera, Zola, and Diana are worrying about Zeke dying. (Wouldn't he just pop back up, like Ares and Apollo?) And Ares, wanting his position back, seems to be threatening to kill Diana. But she's the God of War - can she be killed, with Fate active? Wouldn't she just pop back up, like Ares did?

I have no idea what the rules are, so I have no idea what's at stake or who can do something about it.

[Harpsikord]

Okay.... But now Hera, Zola, and Diana are worrying about Zeke dying. (Wouldn't he just pop back up, like Ares and Apollo?) And Ares, wanting his position back, seems to be threatening to kill Diana. But she's the God of War - can she be killed, with Fate active? Wouldn't she just pop back up, like Ares did?

I have no idea what the rules are, so I have no idea what's at stake or who can do something about it.

I think what Finch is going for is that Diana would die, but only temporary, and her power would be passed on. It makes little narrative sense, as does much of this, and I think that it's mostly being avoided by the DCU at large because of awful this story is and the fact that something new is only three months away now.

Donna and Diana both have much better showings in the books that they're appearing in and it shows. And yes, Donna is Fate in Titans Hunt, but at the same time she isn't dragged down by it. I'm going to continue to read the title through it's end but the end can't come soon enough.

[Tayswift]

Have to agree with you there.

Donna, consumed with guilt and doubt, tries to make sense of her visions (and can't). Finally decides to save a boy who is drowning, despite her vague visions making her reluctant to do even that much heroing. Lo and behold, he kills some guy and is killed in turn. But: through no plan, effort, or knowledge of Donna's, it turns out that the guy he killed was keeping three women hostage as sex slaves (it is implied) for years, and now they're released. (If this is meant to be "ironic," it didn't do much for me.)

Maybe this is supposed to represent Donna's nature as Fate, but what she sets out to accomplish (saving the boy) ends in tragedy (boy and man killed), and what she doesn't set out to accomplish -saving the women, who she doesn't even know about - just sort of happens.

Previously, Donna tried to save Violet, and got her killed.

And, of course, last issue, Wonder Woman was so consumed by guilt and doubt that she stood around while something fell on her head and knocked her out. And in a previous issue she went after Cheetah, but found out the best thing to do was just back off, so Cheetah could enter the wrong temple and defeat herself. (And then run off without Wonder Woman holding her responsible for killing a bunch of Amazons.) Things would have turned out the same if Wonder Woman hadn't been in that story.

Diana and Donna, who are supposed to be the two main characters in these stories, are more like accidents waiting to happen. Things just sort of happen around them, whether they intend them or not. As a reader, I'm finding it boring and frustrating.

***

Also, although I am very unhappy with the way Azzarello changed the thematic and symbolic underpinnings of Wonder Woman and her mythos, at least his story arc made sense to me. Now I sort of feel that I don't know what's going on, or supposed to be going on. Take immortality (please!): there are different ways that word is used in fiction, of course. In The New 52, the gods seemed immortal in the sense that they didn't grow old, and they were very difficult to kill - it took some deific artifact and/or level of power. But Diana killed Ares, and his position as God of War passed to her. And all the other gods nodded, like, yes, that's how these things work. Which of course suggests that other gods have been killed in the past, because otherwise how would they know? And Apollo got killed too.

But it turns out that that was only happening because the Fates were fading. Now, with Donna taking over the Fates' place (and properly empowered by Gaea), the gods are truly immortal! They can't die; they can't be, or stay, dead. Ares and Apollo simply popped back up alive, unceremoniously, because with Fate on the job the gods can't die (or be dead).

Okay.... But now Hera, Zola, and Diana are worrying about Zeke dying. (Wouldn't he just pop back up, like Ares and Apollo?) And Ares, wanting his position back, seems to be threatening to kill Diana. But she's the God of War - can she be killed, with Fate active? Wouldn't she just pop back up, like Ares did?

I have no idea what the rules are, so I have no idea what's at stake or who can do something about it.

oh dude, this sounds awful. really what i expect from this.

not even a page of discussion, this should be a milestone

[numberthirty]

There's really not much to discuss.

- The writing pretty much ignores who we know Ares to be.
- Less than interesting plot.

[spark627]

EVerything about this was awful. There is barely a story here, every character is different from how we know them. Just when you think it couldn't get worse, the Donna Troy backup story is one of the worst written things I have ever read.

[numberthirty]

I really enjoyed this issue. Finally - an all out battle between Diana and Ares in the New 52.

What do you mean "Finally"?

[Gaelforce]

What do you mean "Finally"?

I don't get how Ares would stand a chance, really. Diana is the god of war and has all of Ares power (not that we've ever been shown what that actually means)

How can he have no power any longer and yet still knock Diana around? Makes no sense to me.

[Desean101101]

I don't get how Ares would stand a chance, really. Diana is the god of war and has all of Ares power (not that we've ever been shown what that actually means)

How can he have no power any longer and yet still knock Diana around? Makes no sense to me.

He has none of the power that comes along with the title of God of War but He is still a full-blooded God so I assume his base stats are still super high without his title as God of War. I haven't read the issue but that is how I always seen the titles for the gods as, Augmentations to their base Godhood.

[OBrianTallent]

Also, what's up with Donna's Fate powers? Now I could very well be wrong here, but from what I understand the concept of fate and the Greek Fates...fate isn't a possibility of timelines, it's an exact "This is where it starts, how it travels and where it ends." However according to Donna, she now sees potential timelines? She saw two paths for the boy? That's not how that should work. Seems she's more prophetic or Oracle than fate.
June can't get here fast enough.

[Natamaxxx]

Have to agree with you there.

Donna, consumed with guilt and doubt, tries to make sense of her visions (and can't). Finally decides to save a boy who is drowning, despite her vague visions making her reluctant to do even that much heroing. Lo and behold, he kills some guy and is killed in turn. But: through no plan, effort, or knowledge of Donna's, it turns out that the guy he killed was keeping three women hostage as sex slaves (it is implied) for years, and now they're released. (If this is meant to be "ironic," it didn't do much for me.)

Maybe this is supposed to represent Donna's nature as Fate, but what she sets out to accomplish (saving the boy) ends in tragedy (boy and man killed), and what she doesn't set out to accomplish -saving the women, who she doesn't even know about - just sort of happens.

Previously, Donna tried to save Violet, and got her killed.

And, of course, last issue, Wonder Woman was so consumed by guilt and doubt that she stood around while something fell on her head and knocked her out. And in a previous issue she went after Cheetah, but found out the best thing to do was just back off, so Cheetah could enter the wrong temple and defeat herself. (And then run off without Wonder Woman holding her responsible for killing a bunch of Amazons.) Things would have turned out the same if Wonder Woman hadn't been in that story.

Diana and Donna, who are supposed to be the two main characters in these stories, are more like accidents waiting to happen. Things just sort of happen around them, whether they intend them or not. As a reader, I'm finding it boring and frustrating.

***

Also, although I am very unhappy with the way Azzarello changed the thematic and symbolic underpinnings of Wonder Woman and her mythos, at least his story arc made sense to me. Now I sort of feel that I don't know what's going on, or supposed to be going on. Take immortality (please!): there are different ways that word is used in fiction, of course. In The New 52, the gods seemed immortal in the sense that they didn't grow old, and they were very difficult to kill - it took some deific artifact and/or level of power. But Diana killed Ares, and his position as God of War passed to her. And all the other gods nodded, like, yes, that's how these things work. Which of course suggests that other gods have been killed in the past, because otherwise how would they know? And Apollo got killed too.

But it turns out that that was only happening because the Fates were fading. Now, with Donna taking over the Fates' place (and properly empowered by Gaea), the gods are truly immortal! They can't die; they can't be, or stay, dead. Ares and Apollo simply popped back up alive, unceremoniously, because with Fate on the job the gods can't die (or be dead).

Okay.... But now Hera, Zola, and Diana are worrying about Zeke dying. (Wouldn't he just pop back up, like Ares and Apollo?) And Ares, wanting his position back, seems to be threatening to kill Diana. But she's the God of War - can she be killed, with Fate active? Wouldn't she just pop back up, like Ares did?

I have no idea what the rules are, so I have no idea what's at stake or who can do something about it.

Wow, this all sounds so dreadful! I guess no amount of "comic book logic" applied would help whatever is going on in this book. I haven't read the issue - and I won't (I gave up after Dr. Whitewa-, I mean Poison). When is re-birth happening again??