Superman in JL movie (contains SPOILERS)

[stephens2177]

The Justice League trailers were very underwhelming. Way too dark and bland visually and CGI heavy. I can see why Thor cleaned up at the box office in comparison.

Agree about the damn promotional crap they put out,it killed it for me,and if I wasn't a hard core JL/DC fan I would have skipped this movie.

Now Thor did the same as the Guardians of the Galaxy movie did,they both made them "rock n roll baby" type movies,thats how they did well,that **** is fun and exciting.if they went straight forward,the BO would have been more like the other 2 Thor movies

[GreatKungLao]

Honest curiosity: Is a Snyder Cut of JL not something a Superman fan should dread instead of cherish? While I do look very much forward to an extended JL; a "lets make Supes miserable again" Snyder JL variant is, I fear, going to undo a lot of stuff which is applauded in JL as a step in the right direction and renewed interest in a MoS2 not done by Snyder while adding a lot of the stuff fans roasted MoS & BvS for.

Man of Steel brought me hope back. As I said earlier, 2013 was a dark time because New 52 was still a thing and kept going. MoS brought back Kents and left us Martha, MoS did not sidelined Lois and let her learn his identity entirely on her own and treat it with respect instead of revealing it to the world (hello 52 and your bad decisions again), MoS brought the best Krypton sequence and Jor-El that felt like a father figure like never before, who teaches his son that being only kryptonian on Earth doesn't make him alone, because he is just as a child of Earth as he is of Krypton.

I will be forever grateful to Zack Snyder for showing me super heroes that act like actual people under given circumstances instead of being clowns in the kindergarten party where every disaster is a chance to throw another one liner.

[stephens2177]

Who wears the kingdom come suit better?

[Powerboy]

Who wears the kingdom come suit better?

I would say Cavill gets it by having the better photo. The Reeve photo is kind of grainy. But it's close. Cavill also has the muscle costume. He is muscular but what we are seeing is the costume. Reeve's muscles in the photo were his own. But I'd prefer Cavill. Reeve is charming and this Superman would neutralize his charm.

[Vanguard-01]

“The bizarre decision not to have Superman included in the marketing stopped ‘Justice League’ from potentially hitting $100 million opening weekend,” the insider said.

Full article: https://www.thewrap.com/warner-bros-...-wonder-woman/

I wonder if WB regrets having sidelined and killed Superman too.

Yeah, they got spooked by the bad reaction people had when the second BvS trailer came out and revealed Wonder Woman AND Doomsday. The negative attitude toward the film got started back then, and since that ended up being literally ALL the surprises the movie had to offer, it really made the BvS trailers look like they showed far too much. So, they got kind of obsessed with toning down the revelations in their trailers. Suicide Squad trailers didn't definitively reveal that Enchantress was the big bad, and they didn't really reveal Incubus at all. Wonder Woman was probably the most successful effort: they managed to conceal the Big Bad entirely, and the reveal that Ares was Sir Patrick was a complete surprise.

So they tried to hold back Superman's resurrection to maintain the illusion that he's "dead." Unfortunately, the resurrection was telegraphed by the movie itself so it wasn't much of a surprise. They should've either made him part of the marketing, or they should've done his resurrection in some way that would've actually made it look like a secret that should've been concealed.

Wonder Woman's big reveal was profoundly satisfying. Superman's wasn't.

[JAK]

Honest curiosity: Is a Snyder Cut of JL not something a Superman fan should dread instead of cherish? While I do look very much forward to an extended JL; a "lets make Supes miserable again" Snyder JL variant is, I fear, going to undo a lot of stuff which is applauded in JL as a step in the right direction and renewed interest in a MoS2 not done by Snyder while adding a lot of the stuff fans roasted MoS & BvS for.

Yeah, I think a Snyder cut would be more of the same that we had. And, if this scene is true, Clark about to use heat vision on civilians tells me everything I need to know. Snyder doesn't learn his lessons - but then, neither does WB.

Maybe WB laments that they couldn't kill him in consecutive movies.

What track record?! At best you can say the DCEU is hit and miss, not some sort of astounding success. And the promotional and marketing stuff (particularly the trailers) were just ugly as sin. I get it, difference of opinion, but don't get so caught up in your own pride and double down on a misstep.

I guess she does have a point about "track record." The promotional and marketing stuff lines up with the movie performances...

Yeah, they have no track record. Saying that it speaks for itself just sounds like political double-speak, and it certainly doesn't give me confidence in the future. If WB wants this to work, they have to earn it. That much is clear.

Henry Cavill himself has been pretty quiet. I hope that means he'll break his silence on a new MoS 2 update soon.

Honestly, I doubt we'll hear anything until after Aquaman comes out. Or (sarcasm alert) after the new Batman movie team says he has a Superman idea, because look how well that's turned out the last two times...


After this huge bundle, I think they're going to move cautiously and slowly, with the exception of Flashpoint, Aquaman, and Batman, maybe one or two others.

[DochaDocha]

I would say Cavill gets it by having the better photo. The Reeve photo is kind of grainy. But it's close. Cavill also has the muscle costume. He is muscular but what we are seeing is the costume. Reeve's muscles in the photo were his own. But I'd prefer Cavill. Reeve is charming and this Superman would neutralize his charm.

I feel like there were some alterations to that Reeve pic. His neck looks unusually thick...

[The_Lurk]

Man of Steel brought me hope back. As I said earlier, 2013 was a dark time because New 52 was still a thing and kept going. MoS brought back Kents and left us Martha, MoS did not sidelined Lois and let her learn his identity entirely on her own and treat it with respect instead of revealing it to the world (hello 52 and your bad decisions again), MoS brought the best Krypton sequence and Jor-El that felt like a father figure like never before, who teaches his son that being only kryptonian on Earth doesn't make him alone, because he is just as a child of Earth as he is of Krypton.

I will be forever grateful to Zack Snyder for showing me super heroes that act like actual people under given circumstances instead of being clowns in the kindergarten party where every disaster is a chance to throw another one liner.

Eww... n52. Thank god they changed that in Rebirth.

It might have been easily misunderstood: I do like MoS & BvS as a whole enough that I got the Steelbook editions for my collection and watched them several times; and almost everything you describe is what I also love about MoS. Until it goes to much into the "hes only human" territory. Hes not. On top of that: Hes Superman. The big cheese. DC has a MASSIVE rooster of characters to choose from if one want to do the flawed, deconstructed Superhero type. I was OK with how MoS went as starting point. "Ok, he'll grown on that; thats why he will make his "no kill" rule". Then BvS came, killed Olsen, and added even more fuel into the "lets tear down Supes" machine.

Yeah, I think a Snyder cut would be more of the same that we had. And, if this scene is true, Clark about to use heat vision on civilians tells me everything I need to know. Snyder doesn't learn his lessons - but then, neither does WB.

That would have the fans get hyped for a MoS2....

I never heard of such a scene but... its totally what I would expect from Snyder.

[Agent Z]

So what exactly is the threshold for Superman fans exactly? Because it seems that giving the guy anything resembling a reasonable challenge or just not having the entire universe kissing his ass is tearing him down.

And if you're going to complain about him being too human, maybe we should advocate to change it so that he never comes to Earth because apparently his being raised by humans isn't supposed to mean anything.

[GreatKungLao]

So what exactly is the threshold for Superman fans exactly? Because it seems that giving the guy anything resembling a reasonable challenge or just not having the entire universe kissing his ass is tearing him down.

And if you're going to complain about him being too human, maybe we should advocate to change it so that he never comes to Earth because apparently his being raised by humans isn't supposed to mean anything.

It is also interesting that people don't like all this religious comparison, yet Superman can never be wrong, because he is suppose to be almost a deity to other super heroes.

[Agniwolf]

It is also interesting that people don't like all this religious comparison, yet Superman can never be wrong, because he is suppose to be almost a deity to other super heroes.

"almost"

apparently there is no almost

[DochaDocha]

So what exactly is the threshold for Superman fans exactly? Because it seems that giving the guy anything resembling a reasonable challenge or just not having the entire universe kissing his ass is tearing him down.

And if you're going to complain about him being too human, maybe we should advocate to change it so that he never comes to Earth because apparently his being raised by humans isn't supposed to mean anything.

The "problem" with having a fanbase with diverse opinions. Two different people can like contradicting portrayals of the character.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Yeah, they got spooked by the bad reaction people had when the second BvS trailer came out and revealed Wonder Woman AND Doomsday. The negative attitude toward the film got started back then, and since that ended up being literally ALL the surprises the movie had to offer, it really made the BvS trailers look like they showed far too much. So, they got kind of obsessed with toning down the revelations in their trailers. Suicide Squad trailers didn't definitively reveal that Enchantress was the big bad, and they didn't really reveal Incubus at all. Wonder Woman was probably the most successful effort: they managed to conceal the Big Bad entirely, and the reveal that Ares was Sir Patrick was a complete surprise.

So they tried to hold back Superman's resurrection to maintain the illusion that he's "dead." Unfortunately, the resurrection was telegraphed by the movie itself so it wasn't much of a surprise. They should've either made him part of the marketing, or they should've done his resurrection in some way that would've actually made it look like a secret that should've been concealed.

Wonder Woman's big reveal was profoundly satisfying. Superman's wasn't.

Yeah, they learned their lessons... just the wrong ones. The whole JL is a perfect example of this.

Yeah, I think a Snyder cut would be more of the same that we had. And, if this scene is true, Clark about to use heat vision on civilians tells me everything I need to know. Snyder doesn't learn his lessons - but then, neither does WB.

That leak was fake. The parts in which Clark arrives at the farm with Lois and when he meets his mother are Snyder's... he was quite calm there for a guy who should heat-visioning people.

[Powerboy]

Yeah, they got spooked by the bad reaction people had when the second BvS trailer came out and revealed Wonder Woman AND Doomsday. The negative attitude toward the film got started back then, and since that ended up being literally ALL the surprises the movie had to offer, it really made the BvS trailers look like they showed far too much. So, they got kind of obsessed with toning down the revelations in their trailers. Suicide Squad trailers didn't definitively reveal that Enchantress was the big bad, and they didn't really reveal Incubus at all. Wonder Woman was probably the most successful effort: they managed to conceal the Big Bad entirely, and the reveal that Ares was Sir Patrick was a complete surprise.

So they tried to hold back Superman's resurrection to maintain the illusion that he's "dead." Unfortunately, the resurrection was telegraphed by the movie itself so it wasn't much of a surprise. They should've either made him part of the marketing, or they should've done his resurrection in some way that would've actually made it look like a secret that should've been concealed.

Wonder Woman's big reveal was profoundly satisfying. Superman's wasn't.

Actually, Amanda Waller was the main villain of "Suicide Squad" and that stayed a secret until you saw the movie. I didn't hate the Enchantress as a character at all but I despised Waller as worse than the villains.

But that little amusing personal reaction aside, I would certainly agree that by trying to avoid giving away too much, they undercut the significance of Superman in the movie and some of the best scenes.

[Powerboy]

The "problem" with having a fanbase with diverse opinions. Two different people can like contradicting portrayals of the character.

True enough. One of my friends, who doesn't even read comic books and for whom the superhero genre isn't even a favorite, when he found out that there are versions of Superman who actually have limits on their strength, durability, speed, etc., was like, "Then what's the point of his being SUPERman. The whole idea is that there are no limits to his strength, speed, durability, etc." Then again, when he found out that, in Star Trek, they've only charted about 20% of the galaxy because there are limits to their speed, he had the same reaction and couldn't even understand why it was stupid that, in the original Battlestar Galactica, they traveled from one galaxy to the next within seconds (but had to travel straight through a solar system because going around it would take too long). So maybe not the best source for a rational view. But there are plenty of people who have the same idea about Superman. At the very least, they think he should be faster, stronger and everythinger than everybody else. Then there are the even more prolific crowd that always says he is too powerful no matter how much they weaken him even when there's a long list of more powerful heroes in some versions.

The latter crowd can never be appeased and they generally dislike the character anyway. Probably the former crowd cannot be appeased either because nothing less than Galactus jobbing to Superman (if they were in the same universe) would satisfy some of them although some will at least qualify it as "More powerful than non-cosmic entities".

So any writer has to just do the best he can. It's not just that he won't please everybody. It's that, no matter what he does, there were be large groups that don't like it.