Superman in JL movie (contains SPOILERS)

[NK1988]

As someone who is a fan of Paul WS Anderson and his shlocky popcorn flicks,I think it's pretty inaccurate to compare him to Snyder. Snyder does have a vision and an artistic intent to his stuff. Anderson, in his good movies and his bad, is really just trying to entertain. That's fine by me since I dig beautiful women and awesome techno music. But it's not really comparable with a character study like Man of Steel which is cerebral and trying to really delve into the idea of superheroes.

Of course, some people do view Snyder as just another Anderson and that's quite frankly fucking tragic. I've had people try to insist DCEU Superman is actually a sociopath who doesn't want to help anybody. Not all opinions are worth listening to or acknowledging as having merit.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

As someone who is a fan of Paul WS Anderson and his shlocky popcorn flicks,I think it's pretty inaccurate to compare him to Snyder. Snyder does have a vision and an artistic intent to his stuff. Anderson, in his good movies and his bad, is really just trying to entertain. That's fine by me since I dig beautiful women and awesome techno music. But it's not really comparable with a character study like Man of Steel which is cerebral and trying to really delve into the idea of superheroes.

Of course, some people do view Snyder as just another Anderson and that's quite frankly fucking tragic. I've had people try to insist DCEU Superman is actually a sociopath who doesn't want to help anybody. Not all opinions are worth listening to or acknowledging as having merit.

Not a peer in the sense that they make similar films, but peers in whether are considered to be great, if decisive filmmakers. Neither's reputation is going to improve as time passes.

[DochaDocha]

(although Man of Steel is still one of the best-selling blurays of all time which totally negates the argument that "people didn't like the movie and turned against it after word of mouth got out") Sometimes a loud minority on the Internet gives us an incorect view of the world.

As I mentioned before, there's no such thing as negative voting when it comes to sales. You buy it or you don't. A polarizing movie tends to get good numbers, even if half the viewers ended up hating it. That's how I see MoS; personally, I liked it, but the best I can say is that its reception was mixed, with loud responses on both ends of the spectrum. The people who liked it liked it enough to buy it, and in large numbers. Sales don't necessarily tell you, though, how many people hated it, because the only response to not liking a movie is not buying it. Not buying could be because either you liked it but not enough to buy, or you simply never wanted to watch it again, or it's the worst movie you ever saw.

In short, there's some weakness of sales as a metric (as there are weaknesses in all metrics).

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

(although Man of Steel is still one of the best-selling blurays of all time which totally negates the argument that "people didn't like the movie and turned against it after word of mouth got out") Sometimes a loud minority on the Internet gives us an incorect view of the world.

It doesn't negate that at all. What it means is that it sold 5.5 million in home video, which is about 16% of its domestic ticket sales.

Home video sales aren't a great indicator for how well received a movie was.

[Osiris-Rex]

It doesn't negate that at all. What it means is that it sold 5.5 million in home video, which is about 16% of its domestic ticket sales.

Home video sales aren't a great indicator for how well received a movie was.

I don't know how it works for most people. but I usually just buy the video if I haven't seen the movie in a theater. Sometimes I even just wait for the video, like I did with Batman v Superman.
It didn't seem interesting enough to sit in a theater to watch, but something I could watch sitting on the sofa.

[GreatKungLao]

WB is still silent about if we will ever see this cut. But hope is alive.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Superman v. Steppenwolf RESCORED & Re-Edited with Junkie XL/Hans Zimmer Music

[JAK]

Fans have been saying people will look more favorably at MOS as time passes but so far only the opposite has proven true. There have been more negative reviews of the movie since 2014 than positive.

Having a vision doesn't mean people are going to look favorably on it when they consider the vision to be bad. Snyder isn't a polarizing filmmaker in the way in which some find him to be this brilliant filmmaker and others aren't so sure, or don't think he utilizes his talent frequently enough. Few consider him good, others find him awful, and only a handful consider him brilliant.

His peers aren't Terrence Malick, Sofia Coppola, Terry Gilliam, The Wachowskis, David Lynch, Gus Van Sant, Ridley Scott, or Jane Campion. Those are filmmakers that have faced striking criticism and praise. They've made movies that are polarizing, or even considered terrible but they carry with them reputations of being immensely talented filmmakers, they've cemented that reputation even if they go on to put out movies that are critically panned.

Snyder's peers are filmmakers like Michael Bay, McG, Eli Roth, Roland Emmerich, and Paul W.S. Anderson. Some might have at some point, usually with their early films, garnered the impression that they might have the potential to cement themselves as great film makers, but that impression didn't last and their reputation as filmmakers aren't going to grow as the years pass, and neither will that of their films.

He might have some high profile supporters like Cameron, but so does Bay in Nolan. It doesn't change the legacy their movies will leave behind.

None of his films have grown in stature to the point where they are now hailed as unappreciated classics, and none will. Like Ayn Rand, whose work Snyder is a fan of, he'll have a dedicated fanbase that considers his work brilliant and him to be an immense talent but the general opinion of him in film circles is going to be that he was really quite bad, and that his films were quite bad.

Not surprisingly, I agree with this. He's an immensely talented visual director with a distinctive style and a flair for the dramatic. And he does have good ideas - even if I generally think the execution is about as well thought-out as Chris Farley's "remember the time you did ___? That was so cool" character from SNL, the ideas themselves have a LOT of merit and potential. I hate the way they executed (no pun intended) Pa Kent's death, but I get what they were going for. Same for the BvS plot. He just need another person in there with him who balances out his ideas. If he had that, I think he could be in that first group - as part of a partnership.

Like Ayn Rand, whose work Snyder is a fan of

Seeing how I can't stand Ayn Rand and consider some of her ideas the very antithesis of basic human decency... this explains at least a bit.

[DochaDocha]

Superman v. Steppenwolf RESCORED & Re-Edited with Junkie XL/Hans Zimmer Music

Whatever I didn't like about MoS, the soundtrack wasn't one of the issues.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

WB is still silent about if we will ever see this cut. But hope is alive.

Thirteen is supposed to be an unlucky number.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

I don't know how it works for most people. but I usually just buy the video if I haven't seen the movie in a theater. Sometimes I even just wait for the video, like I did with Batman v Superman.
It didn't seem interesting enough to sit in a theater to watch, but something I could watch sitting on the sofa.

Yes, there are all these variables as well.

That's why using home video sales to determine general audience reception is not great.

[Powerboy]

I haven't seen JL but I've not heard good things.

But I know Snyder is good. Man of Steel is possibly my favorite superhero film of all time as it dealt with everything I go to superheroes for.

I just tend to like superhero movies others dislike it seems. In addition to MOS, I also loved Ang Lee's Hulk. I hope they both come to be more beloved in time.

(although Man of Steel is still one of the best-selling blurays of all time which totally negates the argument that "people didn't like the movie and turned against it after word of mouth got out") Sometimes a loud minority on the Internet gives us an incorect view of the world.

Although Ang Lee's Hulk is endlessly trashed on superhero boards, I thought it was a great movie. I thought it was thoughtful and insightful and gave us the most authentic Banner ever. I remember walking out of the theater and hearing some woman say something along the lines of, "I just couldn't warm up to Banner in this movie, he was so off-putting. I just couldn't like him."

I couldn't help but think, "Gee, a severe introvert with massive psychological issues and you can't warm up to him or like him because he's off-putting. So, in other words, the most authentic to the comics Banner ever but he's a "bad" version because you and he would never be pals."

The difference there is that execution lived up to ambition but it just wasn't the popcorn movie people wanted. They wanted Banner as a wisecracking comedian and they finally got that in "the Avengers" and that version was suddenly the favorite because he was the feel good Banner.

With Snyder, execution doesn't live up to ambition. Mind you, I'm not saying that's the reason a lot of people don't like his Superman. A lot of it is the same as Hulk, it's just not the popcorn movie they want.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Having artistic ambitions is good, but it requires a level of commitment that Snyder hasn't shown.

To use a classroom example.

Say a bunch of junior high school students are asked to write an essay about Animal Farm, and given some reading material to help them formulate that essay. Most people do a competent job, some make their essay witty and funny but not anymore intelligent than the other competent essays, a select few do extensive reading outside of what they were suggested and deliver an essay that was more than what was expected (maybe a high school senior level essay or even one approaching college level), and then there are the students that have the same desire to write an essay as the previously mentioned students but instead of doing extensive outside reading to help with the essay, they go with bits and pieces they've read or heard elsewhere, put their own spin on the material that was provided, the outside material they do utilize is questionable, and they just try to cram it all in their, so their essay comes out a jumbled mess (like my posts ).

Snyder is the fourth kind of student. His ambition would be great if there was anything more to it besides just that.

To clarify something, when I mention outside extensive reading, I'm not referring to comics in relation to Snyder and the DCEU, but the philosophical and religious elements Snyder wants to highlight in his movies.

[Powerboy]

Having artistic ambitions is good, but it requires a level of commitment that Snyder hasn't shown.

To use a classroom example.

Say a bunch of junior high school students are asked to write an essay about Animal Farm, and given some reading material to help them formulate that essay. Most people do a competent job, some make their essay witty and funny but not anymore intelligent than the other competent essays, a select few do extensive reading outside of what they were suggested and deliver an essay that was more than what was expected (maybe a high school senior level essay or even one approaching college level), and then there are the students that have the same desire to write an essay as the previously mentioned students but instead of doing extensive outside reading to help with the essay, they go with bits and pieces they've read or heard elsewhere, put their own spin on the material that was provided, the outside material they do utilize is questionable, and they just try to cram it all in their, so their essay comes out a jumbled mess (like my posts ).

Snyder is the fourth kind of student. His ambition would be great if there was anything more to it besides just that.

To clarify something, when I mention outside extensive reading, I'm not referring to comics in relation to Snyder and the DCEU, but the philosophical and religious elements Snyder wants to highlight in his movies.

I get what you're saying, that Snyder is the guy who's essay seems to be, "Animal Farm" is more than just a story about talking animals. It's actually a statement about human nature and the nature of societies..." GASP! But it sort of wants to mostly skip to the big scenes and leaves out all the details of how things progressed or degressed from A to B possibly because he doesn't really know how to show us that.

Yet I did liken MoS to a Greek myth, especially in the early parts. Lots of big scenes. A little bit of characterization. I think it was trying a bit too hard to be grand and epic though. Maybe that's either inevitable with Superman or just a frequent mistake in movies.

[Lokimaru]

Having artistic ambitions is good, but it requires a level of commitment that Snyder hasn't shown.

To use a classroom example.

Say a bunch of junior high school students are asked to write an essay about Animal Farm, and given some reading material to help them formulate that essay. Most people do a competent job, some make their essay witty and funny but not anymore intelligent than the other competent essays, a select few do extensive reading outside of what they were suggested and deliver an essay that was more than what was expected (maybe a high school senior level essay or even one approaching college level), and then there are the students that have the same desire to write an essay as the previously mentioned students but instead of doing extensive outside reading to help with the essay, they go with bits and pieces they've read or heard elsewhere, put their own spin on the material that was provided, the outside material they do utilize is questionable, and they just try to cram it all in their, so their essay comes out a jumbled mess (like my posts ).

Snyder is the fourth kind of student. His ambition would be great if there was anything more to it besides just that.

To clarify something, when I mention outside extensive reading, I'm not referring to comics in relation to Snyder and the DCEU, but the philosophical and religious elements Snyder wants to highlight in his movies.

Actually Snyder did do extensive reading you should hear the massive levels of **** the studio wanted him to change about Superman. Some wanted him to lose Smallville, the Kents, I'm talking John Peters level giant spider bullshit.