Batman in Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS)

[L.R Johansson]

Yeah, there's a thread going full steam over at the Superman-boards, so I figured there should be one here as well. = )

Buut... the talk over there is quite pessimistic - not many have seen it yet, but those that have, seems to feel the same as the critics that gave it a low score.

Anyways - what do the Bat-fans think? Does it seem to have a good depiction of Batman? Is this how you would have preferred to see the first meeting between the two depicted, on the big-screen?

[SpideyZERO]

My review, copied from film section, SPOILER ALERT

spoilers:

Batman v Superman. Two iconic superheroes fight on the big screen. It sounds great and I have been waiting for today to watch it ever since the announcement 3 years ago. Heck, I have even rewatched MOS and found it to be pretty good. I generally enjoys all movies so I guess you can say that I am easily pleased. I knew about the bad reviews, adjusted my expectations and still came out disappointed, baffling at what could have gone so wrong. The film had a great start. The Wayne murder was short and beautifully shot (I mean...filmed) and the MOS event from Bruce's POV. Everything was great. And then it went downhill. The pacing is all over the place. The first half of the movie was boring. It was random scenes hastily put together with no natural flow and no action scenes to break things up a little bit. Once the set up is done, here comes the action packed second half and boy, everything is so fast paced that I had no idea what was going on.The transition from BvS fight to fighting Doomsday was incredibly bad. Speaking of BvS, the titular Batman and Superman were...well, awful. I like Ben Affleck (no idea why, I just like the dude even though I barely see any of his movies) and I think he did well with what he had here, but his Batman was so questionable. I get that Snyder is trying to do an angry Batman but execution just failed. To quote my gf, "Batfleck is absolutely insane." I can live with a Batman who kills, but the killings were so brutal that I started to wonder if it was necessary. Oh and everything somehow explodes, like I'm watching a Michael Bay movie. Superman...I felt he was barely there even though the movie was talking about problems of his existence. I feel like he was getting ***** all over the place, like everyone and the universe hates him. Everything was so gloomy for him. The other characters are meh. Wonder Woman first appearance was great (helped by the awesome OST) but that's it. Lois Lane was ok I guess (some stupid decisions there at the end). Alfred was freaking awesome and I demand a solo Batman movie with more Alfred. As for the villain, Lex Luthor was bad. I don't mind the awkward geek/evil genius but other than some random throwaway lines, he is evil just because. He also somehow manipulated both heroes to fight each other, but the extend of the manipulations was so badly shown that I was confused how did all that happen. But I let that slide because I have the titular fight right? Err, the titular Batman vs Superman was so disappointing. Nevermind the flimsy reasons for them to fight and how Superman can literally end the fight by maybe speaking louder and faster, the whole fight was so one sided that it wasn't even funny. Once Batman brought out the kryptonite and it was game over Superman. And Superman was such a bad fighter that he failed to do anything when Batman was slowly loading another kryptonite bullet and just flew to him to get shot. I don't really have much to say about the Doomsday fight. It was nice to see but could have been better. Maybe I was too let down by all that had happened to really care. Like I mentioned, WW's first appearance in costume (not the video) was really badass and the Trinity worked well together (despite Batman just tried to murder Superman in cold blood earlier and somehow they are bros now). The funny thing is that the movie kept hitting you on the head that THE WHOLE PLACE IS ABANDONED but looking at the scale of the destructions, thousands must have died again Of course the movie has its ups, namely the opening montage, Batmobile actions and Batfleck taking on goons in the warehouse (despite questionable decisions) and the OST. But the bads far outweighs the goods and I really wonder how they can get so many thing wrong. I really don't know what to think. I feel like laughing and feel like crying. I was ready to love this film. I bought batfleck t shirts and 2 HT Batflecks preordered because I expect to love this film despite everything. I don't even know when was the last time I was so let down by a film. Overall I gave the film a 4/10. Maybe it will be better when I watch it again, but I doubt it will be anytime soon. But if you are wondering if you should watch it, do so. My cousin watched it and thought it was pretty good so maybe the movie might be for you. As for me, I just hope the negative reactions can make WB to reconsider the future of DCEU and to make some drastic and hopefully good decisions.

end of spoilers

And if you read reviews and some feedbacks, you will know that Batfleck sorta...kills, so I present: Batfleck's "kill count"

spoilers:

I will leave out the Knightmare because it is an alternative world/dream where everything has gone to hell, but he uses guns and shot people directly In the movie, I think we have: 1. Batmobile chase. - The batmobile fires bullets from its turrent and can launch missiles from main body but I don't think anyone died from them. But in some manuevers, Batfleck made some goons' car slam onto an oil truck (or something, not sure if it is the bad guy's) and both vehicles exploded, like with huge explosion, in flames, with people still inside. - The batmobile knocked over a goon car. Then it uses some grappling hook to drag it along, and threw it onto another goon car and smashing both together, people in the car most likely squeezed flat. 2. Warehouse fight - Batwing sequence. Blowing up the bad guy's armed vehicles with the goons still on them firing (you can see from the trailer) - During the fight, Batman grabbed a goon as hostage while using his guns to shoot at other goons (wall and floor), no people died here - Batfleck was brutal here. Batarang to the hand, grappling hook to the shoulder (like pierce/attach to the shoulder) then throw around, and punch goon to the floor from the trailer. - Now, the really obvious (and I think will be controversial) scene where Batfleck kills. Flamethrower guy had somebody hostage and was about to use the flamethrower. Batfleck using a rifle to shoot the flamethrower gas tank (while saying the famous TDKR line), the guy went up in flame and the whole floor exploded and most likely wipe out all the goons that Batfleck knocked unconscious earlier. (the hostage is ok because Batfleck covered them with his cape) I don't really have a problem with Batman killing. But it is the whole brutality that made me rolled my eyes. Maybe once you watched the Batman vs Superman fight, you might question if the brutality really necessary.

end of spoilers

[JBatmanFan05]

The killing will kill the film for me, no "aged & grizzled" excuse for Batman will work for me.

[Nite-Wing]

Might want to add a spoiler tag to the thread if we are gonna have a discussion about the movie.
spoilers:

Batman always had the leeway to kill he's a regular human going up against people trying to kill him and innocents. Anyone soldier/law enforcement/etc would kill under those circumstances. Its the fact that he holds off from it that makes him even more of a hero. DKR Batman isn't a hero though. Batman in this film is very much an anti hero or villain if you look at things objectively. Whether people like that is hard to say. I didn't like all the talk of Bruce being the villain of the movie but in the end he ended fine as a character and had a complete arc this film. I have to say though the main thing that will be controversial is the branding people and the circumstances around it. Batman has been killing in all of his movies since 89 this will be par for the course to anyone who has actually followed the character. You do begin to question how the suicide squad is still alive

end of spoilers

[KoriandrJean]

My review, copied from film section, SPOILER ALERT

spoilers:

Batman v Superman. Two iconic superheroes fight on the big screen. It sounds great and I have been waiting for today to watch it ever since the announcement 3 years ago. Heck, I have even rewatched MOS and found it to be pretty good. I generally enjoys all movies so I guess you can say that I am easily pleased. I knew about the bad reviews, adjusted my expectations and still came out disappointed, baffling at what could have gone so wrong. The film had a great start. The Wayne murder was short and beautifully shot (I mean...filmed) and the MOS event from Bruce's POV. Everything was great. And then it went downhill. The pacing is all over the place. The first half of the movie was boring. It was random scenes hastily put together with no natural flow and no action scenes to break things up a little bit. Once the set up is done, here comes the action packed second half and boy, everything is so fast paced that I had no idea what was going on.The transition from BvS fight to fighting Doomsday was incredibly bad. Speaking of BvS, the titular Batman and Superman were...well, awful. I like Ben Affleck (no idea why, I just like the dude even though I barely see any of his movies) and I think he did well with what he had here, but his Batman was so questionable. I get that Snyder is trying to do an angry Batman but execution just failed. To quote my gf, "Batfleck is absolutely insane." I can live with a Batman who kills, but the killings were so brutal that I started to wonder if it was necessary. Oh and everything somehow explodes, like I'm watching a Michael Bay movie. Superman...I felt he was barely there even though the movie was talking about problems of his existence. I feel like he was getting ***** all over the place, like everyone and the universe hates him. Everything was so gloomy for him. The other characters are meh. Wonder Woman first appearance was great (helped by the awesome OST) but that's it. Lois Lane was ok I guess (some stupid decisions there at the end). Alfred was freaking awesome and I demand a solo Batman movie with more Alfred. As for the villain, Lex Luthor was bad. I don't mind the awkward geek/evil genius but other than some random throwaway lines, he is evil just because. He also somehow manipulated both heroes to fight each other, but the extend of the manipulations was so badly shown that I was confused how did all that happen. But I let that slide because I have the titular fight right? Err, the titular Batman vs Superman was so disappointing. Nevermind the flimsy reasons for them to fight and how Superman can literally end the fight by maybe speaking louder and faster, the whole fight was so one sided that it wasn't even funny. Once Batman brought out the kryptonite and it was game over Superman. And Superman was such a bad fighter that he failed to do anything when Batman was slowly loading another kryptonite bullet and just flew to him to get shot. I don't really have much to say about the Doomsday fight. It was nice to see but could have been better. Maybe I was too let down by all that had happened to really care. Like I mentioned, WW's first appearance in costume (not the video) was really badass and the Trinity worked well together (despite Batman just tried to murder Superman in cold blood earlier and somehow they are bros now). The funny thing is that the movie kept hitting you on the head that THE WHOLE PLACE IS ABANDONED but looking at the scale of the destructions, thousands must have died again Of course the movie has its ups, namely the opening montage, Batmobile actions and Batfleck taking on goons in the warehouse (despite questionable decisions) and the OST. But the bads far outweighs the goods and I really wonder how they can get so many thing wrong. I really don't know what to think. I feel like laughing and feel like crying. I was ready to love this film. I bought batfleck t shirts and 2 HT Batflecks preordered because I expect to love this film despite everything. I don't even know when was the last time I was so let down by a film. Overall I gave the film a 4/10. Maybe it will be better when I watch it again, but I doubt it will be anytime soon. But if you are wondering if you should watch it, do so. My cousin watched it and thought it was pretty good so maybe the movie might be for you. As for me, I just hope the negative reactions can make WB to reconsider the future of DCEU and to make some drastic and hopefully good decisions.

end of spoilers

And if you read reviews and some feedbacks, you will know that Batfleck sorta...kills, so I present: Batfleck's "kill count"

spoilers:

I will leave out the Knightmare because it is an alternative world/dream where everything has gone to hell, but he uses guns and shot people directly In the movie, I think we have: 1. Batmobile chase. - The batmobile fires bullets from its turrent and can launch missiles from main body but I don't think anyone died from them. But in some manuevers, Batfleck made some goons' car slam onto an oil truck (or something, not sure if it is the bad guy's) and both vehicles exploded, like with huge explosion, in flames, with people still inside. - The batmobile knocked over a goon car. Then it uses some grappling hook to drag it along, and threw it onto another goon car and smashing both together, people in the car most likely squeezed flat. 2. Warehouse fight - Batwing sequence. Blowing up the bad guy's armed vehicles with the goons still on them firing (you can see from the trailer) - During the fight, Batman grabbed a goon as hostage while using his guns to shoot at other goons (wall and floor), no people died here - Batfleck was brutal here. Batarang to the hand, grappling hook to the shoulder (like pierce/attach to the shoulder) then throw around, and punch goon to the floor from the trailer. - Now, the really obvious (and I think will be controversial) scene where Batfleck kills. Flamethrower guy had somebody hostage and was about to use the flamethrower. Batfleck using a rifle to shoot the flamethrower gas tank (while saying the famous TDKR line), the guy went up in flame and the whole floor exploded and most likely wipe out all the goons that Batfleck knocked unconscious earlier. (the hostage is ok because Batfleck covered them with his cape) I don't really have a problem with Batman killing. But it is the whole brutality that made me rolled my eyes. Maybe once you watched the Batman vs Superman fight, you might question if the brutality really necessary.

end of spoilers

Why am I NOT surprised by this?

[nepenthes]

The redeeming feature of this movie is that everything just looks amazing - their physicality and costumes, the atmospherics, battles and sequences - everything barring terrible CGI in the final Doomsday battle. Batman himself is almost straight from the comics. WONDER WOMAN is stunning - steals it entirely. Otherwise yeah the bad reviews are hitting on some serious and very real problems with this movie. It's bloated and dreary and straight up doesn't make sense. Goyer still all over it. Batman and Superman stop fighting and become friends because both of their mothers are called Martha.

Trivial spoilers

spoilers:

Flash all of a sudden just appears in full costume standing there and talking for 10 seconds then disappears. His costume is pretty far out. Batman shoots a bunch of people in the dream sequence (the extended battle is a long single-take shot and amazing). In real life he rams cars until they explode with guys inside them and throws actual grenades at guys. Kinda weird. We see the creation of Cyborg - his human remains are just a torso and a head - the technology very obviously a motherbox. Doomsday is created partially from Lex Luthors blood.

end of spoilers

[RichSummers]

Haven't seen it but will definitely go regardless of how the reviews are the playing out. Here's an excerpt from a critics review that got my attention,

spoilers:

"Here at last is the sadistic, fascistic, half-crazed vigilante that comic fans have been waiting for. When he is in costume, he is an imposingly bulky, down-and-dirty brawler who has no qualms about flinging crooks through the walls of derelict houses, or branding them with a bat-shaped iron"

end of spoilers


So my gut (and this is complete speculation) tells me we're looking at a mix of batgod and batdick. I was really hoping that we might get a different take that wasn't go gritty and dark. Then again, I haven't seen it or read any spoiler heavy reviews so I'm being entirely speculative.

[Aioros22]

Batman and Superman stop fighting and become friends because both of their mothers are called Martha.

If only world peace was so easy to get.

[Kurtzberg]

As others have said, it is certainly a visual spectacle, but it doesn't have much... Depth? Soul? I'm not sure what the right way to phrase it is. It's disjointed and a bit shallow as a story. It struck me as just another joyless, dark and gritty superhero movie with explosions and buildings being smashed. I'm left feeling I didn't see heroes on that screen, just angry, senseless action which is a letdown when I went in hoping to see the World's Finest. I could imagine t's okay as just another action movie possibly, the bar isn't particularly high for those, if you don't have great attachment to the main characters, but I do and I had higher hopes. That was obviously foolish of me.
Wonder Woman was pretty good though, liked her much more than I liked Bats or Supes.
Also Affleck is a pretty good Batman, my issues aren't with his portrayal but more so with what the script asks him to do.

[The Kid]

Everyone else basically got it. Affleck's acting was great and he looked good but the film itself let him down. A lot of the actions were just there to connect a bunch of random plot points together. And Batman was basically the Punisher out there. What the hell is up with that?

[Baggie_Saiyan]

This is what happens when you give Snyder the keys and look after the place while we're on holiday. You come back and from the outside the house looks visually stunning he added various plants and shrubs etc etc and you're thinking this is more than I bargained for then you walk inside the whole house is a complete mess. Sigh.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Everyone else basically got it. Affleck's acting was great and he looked good but the film itself let him down. A lot of the actions were just there to connect a bunch of random plot points together. And Batman was basically the Punisher out there. What the hell is up with that?

By the sounds of it he wasn't Punisher bad. But yeah this reminds me off Sucker Punch, bunch of cool stuff but it is all so random.

[HellHere]

As others have said, it is certainly a visual spectacle, but

I haven't seen it yet, but this is basically what I've been expecting it to be since it was announced. Every Snyder film I've seen has been very pretty to look at (and good soundtracks) but he seems to have no idea how to structure a story so it makes any real sense.

[byrd156]

Why does Batman still have a rogues gallery in this universe? If the dead Robin is Jason and they plan on doing Red Hood, the conflict between them would be nonexistent since Batman is a killer.

I really want to see the director's cut after seeing BVS. There were obvious edits that need to be filled in and I want to know Jena Malone's character and if Dick exists in this universe.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Why does Batman still have a rogues gallery in this universe? If the dead Robin is Jason and they plan on doing Red Hood, the conflict between them would be nonexistent since Batman is a killer.

I really want to see the director's cut after seeing BVS. There were obvious edits that need to be filled in and I want to know Jena Malone's character and if Dick exists in this universe.

Thoughts on the overall movie byrd156?