Batman in Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS)

[rpi]

Actually That car was completely empty when he slammed it against another car. There was a shot that showed no one in the car he hooked because the henchmen saw it from his own car. The Flamethrower guy got burned because of Martha. Wasn't anyway to end that without hitting the gas tank to end it quickly and get martha out of there. KGBeast told him that he knows it will end and he is going to come back. Bruce says I know and just explodes the Gas on his back to take martha away If he Lives or dies he cares not .

The first car gets knocked over, moments later he harpoons it, and then he starts dragging it along. How did it get completely empty in that moment? And I don't understand what you mean by saying that the flame tank exploded because of Martha. She certainly wasn't the one who shot it open. That's nonsense.
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He is nowhere near punisher level in the movie dude I have no clue what you were watching. Also he vows to be a better because he feels like **** that his actions contributed to supermans death. Basically He needs the justice league as a person because they make him want to be a better person to know after all this time it wasn't just him and his close friends trying to save the world and such, there are others. This is a Bruce I can see dying later with a smile on his face because The Justice League will make the world a better place than it was when he was alone.

Who cares if he decides he wants to be better later on? He's a killer now. The fundamental idea of Batman is that he saw his parents killed, so he doesn't want anyone else to get killed, and that includes criminals. He's an awesome fantasy character because he can be smart enough to figure out situations like those without killing people. Writers who think he can only kill people to get out of those situations probably shouldn't be writing him in the first place as they don't seem to be imaginative enough.

[rpi]

He sets a man on fire in the movie and leaves him burning. Also its debatable if he killed a few of the mutants or not with what he does to a few of them.

I think you're thinking of something else. He doesn't set anyone on fire in TDKR. And it's not debatable what happens with the Mutants. He goes out of his way to say he's using rubber bullets.

[Drz]

How many people here have actually seen the movie when discussing Batman's no kill role and the motivations of the character in the movie?

[Predator JP]

just saw the movie.
in the context of this movie it kinda made sense for Bats to kill criminals but as DC fan i'm a little dissapointed to know that we are not gonna get comic Batman again.

[scottsummer]

Maybe Joker said MARTHA!!!!! to saved his life,

[Nite-Wing]

And Burton's Batman was a pretty poor Batman. When did Nolan's Batman kill? He did let Ra's die, but he didn't kill him. He did shoot out the engine on Talia's truck, which is about as close to a killing as you can get. Hell, he specifically forbade Catwoman from using handguns. And for all its flaws, Shumacher's Batman never killed. I don't know where you're pulling that from.

He killed a room full of people with an explosion including the man he didn't want to execute
He killed Ra's
He killed Harvey Dent pushed him off a building
He killed Talia

Aside from the one rule talk up Nolan's Batman was just as brutal as this one

Its funny as well because this Batman has a complete arc in this movie which might preclude he not kill anymore.

[Dr.Octagon]

The first car gets knocked over, moments later he harpoons it, and then he starts dragging it along. How did it get completely empty in that moment? And I don't understand what you mean by saying that the flame tank exploded because of Martha. She certainly wasn't the one who shot it open. That's nonsense.
/
If it turns out further down the cinematic line that Jared Leto's Joker is really a deranged Jason Todd and that Batman has already killed the original Joker would it not justify Batman abandoning his No kill policy ?


Who cares if he decides he wants to be better later on? He's a killer now. The fundamental idea of Batman is that he saw his parents killed, so he doesn't want anyone else to get killed, and that includes criminals. He's an awesome fantasy character because he can be smart enough to figure out situations like those without killing people. Writers who think he can only kill people to get out of those situations probably shouldn't be writing him in the first place as they don't seem to be imaginative enough.

If it turns out further down the cinematic line that Jared Leto's Joker is actually a deranged Jason Todd and that Batman has already killed the original Joker would it not justify Batman abandoning his no kill policy?

[darkseidpwns]

He killed a room full of people with an explosion including the man he didn't want to execute
He killed Ra's
He killed Harvey Dent pushed him off a building
He killed Talia

Aside from the one rule talk up Nolan's Batman was just as brutal as this one

Its funny as well because this Batman has a complete arc in this movie which might preclude he not kill anymore.

He didn't,they made it a point to show everyone scrambling to get out.
He didn't,he actually saved him in the above mentioned scene,Ra's later put himself in a place where death was the only inevitable outcome no matter what.
Tried to save a boy and there was no murderous intent,the fall wasn't big enough to kill people under normal circumstances,Dent just fell wrong.
Wanted to stop the truck,she just died but even then this was the one of the final scenes of the last film. It had too much going on for people to even care about Talia dying on a suicide mission.

[darkseidpwns]

If it turns out further down the cinematic line that Jared Leto's Joker is actually a deranged Jason Todd and that Batman has already killed the original Joker would it not justify Batman abandoning his no kill policy?

This just harkens back to my point about them just redoing the same story again and again but each time the story is stupidly changed so that it wouldn't be a total ripoff. I dont think Jason fans want an aborted version of The Dark Knight Strikes Again,Under the Red Hood and Return of the Joker. No one wants Joker to be Jason or vice versa,if the clowns at WB think otherwise then they'd better get ready for another disaster.

[kaimaciel]

Why is everybody talking about Under The Red Hood as if it's some major Batman magnum opus that's due for a live action version? There are dozens of stories that are more popular and critically acclaimed to be adapted first.

Under the Red Hood is a great story and this could be Jason Todd's only chance to show up in the the big screen for a change, so yeah. I want them to adapt UTRH into a movie, I want to see Jason.

People here have been talking about UTRH being "overdone" because of the animated movie and the Arkham Knight, while honestly, those were the only 2 times we ever saw the Red Hood out of the comics while Dick Grayson shows up every single time, plus three live action movies. Having a UTRH movie doesn't mean Nightwing shouldn't show up, he really should, but saying the Red Hood is overdone when he's continuously skipped over in every other media? Seriously?

As for Jason being the Joker... No. Hell no. That would be a huge middle finger to both Jason and Joker fans. There's trying to do something different with the characters and then there's destroying said characters by turning them into something no fan would like. Remember when Dick Grayson became the Joker on The Dark Knight Strikes Again and then Batman killed him? Was there anyone who liked that?

[Badou]

How about a well made movie showing Dick Grayson's evolution from Robin to Nightwing one depicting a healthy relationship with Batman, hits the theme of fatherhood and depicts Batman's life as a success story? it can appeal to kids and sets up the character for Teen Titans? sounds better than another Joker story and Jason returning from the grave for the dozenth time in a decade.
DC and WB using one and done type of stories to create a universe is literally the stupidest thing they've ever done.

I think the problem with this is that I don't see WB not wanting to make a movie centered around Batman, and especially Batman vs the Joker. He's their marquee character, not Robin. I don't think WB sees a lot of value in Robin as a character. You had the Nolan movies where Bale said he would quit if they ever brought in a Robin and I think they still have that mindset. Which is why we get the John Blake character or a already dead Robin here in BvS. They are trying to make the character as "adult" as they can. So it is really difficult to have and show this evolution of Dick Grayson (who might not even be in this universe if they just want to use Jason as the only Robin) when his entire career as Robin will be ignored. Plus Batman being a good father and a success story wouldn't really be dark enough for them.

[darkseidpwns]

I think the problem with this is that I don't see WB not wanting to make a movie centered around Batman, and especially Batman vs the Joker. He's their marquee character, not Robin. I don't think WB sees a lot of value in Robin as a character. You had the Nolan movies where Bale said he would quit if they ever brought in a Robin and I think they still have that mindset. Which is why we get the John Blake character or a already dead Robin here in BvS. They are trying to make the character as "adult" as they can. So it is really difficult to have and show this evolution of Dick Grayson (who might not even be in this universe if they just want to use Jason as the only Robin) when his entire career as Robin will be ignored. Plus Batman being a good father and a success story wouldn't really be dark enough for them.

Pretty much what I believe as well,Batman vs Joker is on it's way to poisoning the entire Batman franchise.It's poisoned the comics already, they had Bane shipping Joker and Batman in Europa and Snyder has rewritten Batman's new-52 history to have Joker in every single important moment of his life. They want the easy way out by having Joker just like they wanted the easy way out for Superman movies by adding Batman to them. But like I said UTRH might get them their Batman vs Joker movie but it stops right there,Dick opens the door to so much else,either way BvS burst the Batman bubble and the Joker bubble isn't too far from bursting imo.

[Aioros22]

This just harkens back to my point about them just redoing the same story again and again but each time the story is stupidly changed so that it wouldn't be a total ripoff.

What a weird sentence. It was adapted twice to other big plataforms outside comics and in either case it had either better or interesting changes from the source material. Where does ripoff comes from in the argument?

I dont think Jason fans want an aborted version of The Dark Knight Strikes Again,Under the Red Hood and Return of the Joker. No one wants Joker to be Jason or vice versa,if the clowns at WB think otherwise then they'd better get ready for another disaster.

Personally I don`t, no. In order for something like that to come out well they would have to ace character writing pretty damn good and their track record isn`t that big.

[darkseidpwns]

Under the Red Hood is a great story and this could be Jason Todd's only chance to show up in the the big screen for a change, so yeah. I want them to adapt UTRH into a movie, I want to see Jason.

People here have been talking about UTRH being "overdone" because of the animated movie and the Arkham Knight, while honestly, those were the only 2 times we ever saw the Red Hood out of the comics while Dick Grayson shows up every single time, plus three live action movies. Having a UTRH movie doesn't mean Nightwing shouldn't show up, he really should, but saying the Red Hood is overdone when he's continuously skipped over in every other media? Seriously?

As for Jason being the Joker... No. Hell no. That would be a huge middle finger to both Jason and Joker fans. There's trying to do something different with the characters and then there's destroying said characters by turning them into something no fan would like. Remember when Dick Grayson became the Joker on The Dark Knight Strikes Again and then Batman killed him? Was there anyone who liked that?

People are saying the basic story is overdone and it's true. The execs dont care about Jason,all they care about is Batman having a bad son fricked up by Joker,that premise has 2 different animated movies, a video game and 3 different comics series. I for one dont want them to go the same route all over again,Jason being the new Joker is a very real possibility because it separates this version from UTRH,is dark,allows them to have Joker and so it's a win-win in their heads.

[Aioros22]

Two different animated movies and 3 different comics series?