Batman V Superman DOJ Disccusion (Spoilers)

[The Kissing Bandit]

Welcome to the boards Bandit

thanks, robotman. actually think i had an account here years ago. and every day for the past year, i read this board and think, 'i should sign up,' but find some excuse not to. that's when you know you're a lazy man at home! can't even be bothered to sign up for message board. heh.

anyway, i've got the whole week off, so i'm planning to go see bvs once, maybe twice more before friday. i'm sure i'm not the only one who's been waiting for a shared dc flick, and warts and all, i gotta see it a few more times on the silver screen.

oh, and one thing i loved that i forgot to mention in my ramblin' review: the flash scene really knocked my socks off. can't wait to see that again, i only wish it was clearer what he was saying (tho i've since found out online).

[TooFlyToFail]

If I had to pick a line in this movie to sum it up it would be batmans line about the world not making sense unless you force it to. If you like this movie, that's fine, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong for liking it, everyones entitled to their own opinion. But I don't think it's possible to look at this movie objectively and say that it's a good or even a coherent film.

The same come be said for it's detractors.

"What?! My Superman is the symbol of hope, and justice! Why is this movie showing him learning to endure a cynical world, and realize it's worth it to be Superman, even for those that hate him?! He's supposed to be this by default! Argh! Also those dangling plot threads that are to be answered in following movies! I liked TFA doing it, but I hate this movie doing it, becuase it's not Star Wars! That's not the Clancy Brown Lex that I love, so I refuse to pay attention to his lines, or mannerisms!"

[TooFlyToFail]

In the cannon of medical concepts, DID and split personality are just the same thing in different names, also unlike many other mental illness, the portray of it in popular medias is actually pretty accurate. Lex in BVS clearly doesn't act like Harvey Dent or Gollum, as long as the viewer doesn't overinterpret, he's just a crazy man that try repress his crazy traits in public, sometimes with unsuccessful results.

Honesty, internal conflict of a good personality and a evil personality is probably one of the most over done things in fictions, it would only make BVS Lex even less interesting.

You can say that, but it makes perfect sense with what we know of his backstory.

[Danileriver23]

The same come be said for it's detractors.

"What?! My Superman is the symbol of hope, and justice! Why is this movie showing him learning to endure a cynical world, and realize it's worth it to be Superman, even for those that hate him?! He's supposed to be this by default! Argh! Also those dangling plot threads that are to be answered in following movies! I liked TFA doing it, but I hate this movie doing it, becuase it's not Star Wars! That's not the Clancy Brown Lex that I love, so I refuse to pay attention to his lines, or mannerisms!"

I'm actually ok with the idea of Superman in a cynical world. Its a way to do a superman movie we haven't seen before. As for the dangling plot threads, TFA didn't stop in the middle of the movie and send rey an email that may as well of had a header "We're gonna make a Justice League movie". it was super ham fisted.

[Danileriver23]

I'm sorry buts that's bull. A lot of the movie makes sense.

More of it didn't make sense.

[Black_Adam]

If I had to pick a line in this movie to sum it up it would be batmans line about the world not making sense unless you force it to. If you like this movie, that's fine, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong for liking it, everyones entitled to their own opinion. But I don't think it's possible to look at this movie objectively and say that it's a good or even a coherent film.

No such thing as objective.

"A film review is inherently an opinion piece. The critic is seeing the film, considering the film and giving you their opinion of the film. It's the whole purpose of the form. There is no mathematical equation to review a movie because there is no algorithm that can say whether a movie is 'good' or 'bad' because the quality of a film – or any work of art, for that matter – is almost entirely subjective."

Doesn't stop people from getting upset when told their opinion doesn't matter though.

[TooFlyToFail]

I'm actually ok with the idea of Superman in a cynical world. Its a way to do a superman movie we haven't seen before. As for the dangling plot threads, TFA didn't stop in the middle of the movie and send rey an email that may as well of had a header "We're gonna make a Justice League movie". it was super ham fisted.

Sure, but it did stop in the middle of the movie to have a very vague vision....and had Rey be awesome, and better than everyone, with no explanation other than plot.

Oh and didn't develop ANYONE.

So yeah, a lot of the same things TFA did are forgiven, but when the DCEU is trying to do the same it's seen as a con. For me, both are 6.5-7/10.

[Danileriver23]

Sure, but it did stop in the middle of the movie to have a very vague vision....and had Rey be awesome, and better than everyone, with no explanation other than plot.

Oh and didn't develop ANYONE.

So yeah, a lot of the same things TFA did are forgiven, but when the DCEU is trying to do the same it's seen as a con. For me, both are 6.5-7/10.

So because The Force Awakens does it, its ok for anyone to get away with it? is that your argument? Believe me, I have problem with TFA as well, but I still actually enjoyed the film because it told a coherent story.

[Danileriver23]

Also, with "Rey being awesome at everything", while I did take issue with it, it made sense in some parts. How did she know how to lock and unlock the doors on the millennium falcon? she worked with scavenged tech her whole life. How was she was so good with a blaster? the force guided her, just like it guided her piloting the falcon. The mind control bit is pretty dumb though, Ill give you that

[Pharozonk]

I'm sorry buts that's bull. A lot of the movie makes sense.

It makes sense, but it's stupid and illogical as all hell.

[qwerty3w]

I'm actually ok with the idea of Superman in a cynical world. Its a way to do a superman movie we haven't seen before.

Hero hated/misunderstood by the masses is a fairly old concept, I don't see make it Superman would bring anything new to it, as Superman, beside his alien origin, is pretty close to a "bare bone" hero. Also I'm pretty sure there is more demand for a optimistic toned but modernized take on of the character. A lot of Superman fans probably would rather want DCEU to fail, than allow it weaken the usual conception of superman in public.

[TooFlyToFail]

So because The Force Awakens does it, its ok for anyone to get away with it? is that your argument? Believe me, I have problem with TFA as well, but I still actually enjoyed the film because it told a coherent story.

My point is that while not as tight as TFA, it's not that much worse than it. The critics gave that movie a pass for several things, but jumped all over this one.

TFA isn't even as hard a job as BvS.

[TooFlyToFail]

Hero hated/misunderstood by the masses is a fairly old concept, I don't see make it Superman would bring anything new to it, as Superman, beside his alien origin, is pretty close to a "bare bone" hero. Also I'm pretty sure there is more demand for a optimistic toned but modernized take on of the character. A lot of Superman fans probably would rather want DCEU to fail, than allow it weaken the usual conception of superman in public.

Well, why don't they wait until he hits that point? A lot of the Superman "criticism" really does hinge on "That's not MY Superman/Chirs Reeves!".

[qwerty3w]

Well, why don't they wait until he hits that point? A lot of the Superman "criticism" really does hinge on "That's not MY Superman/Chirs Reeves!".

There is no guaranteed he would ever hit that point in DCEU, the defenders of Snyder said he would hits that point in the second movie, now BVS come out, Superman move further from that point, not closer to it. Also there is Flash's warning and Batman being the one that gather the league, Superman would probably spend most of time as a mind-controlled villain in the next movie.

[WhipWhirlwind]

I didn't think BvS was terrible. I get what they were trying to do, but the execution is still off, and most importantly, this just isn't the interpretation of the DCU that I personally feel should be the one that gets the most eyeballs.

IMO, anyone who liked/disliked either of these movies, or has opinions on how the DCU should be brought to film, should read Superman: American Alien. I don't think I've ever read a more film worthy adaptation of superman and the DCU.