Batman V Superman DOJ Disccusion (Spoilers)

[BatmanBeyond28]

Not really because for the purposes of this movie, Batman hasn't done any research whatsoever so how does he know that's Lois? (did I miss the introduction?)

She could have been a random Metropolis groupie just trying to save Superman.

I read your points on the misconceptions and you have a slight contradiction between the time when Batman is in full rage, ready to kill Superman out of necessity and when he hears "Martha" and is taken aback. Isn't this the Batman who has been working tirelessly for 20 years to save his city? Are we expected to believe that nobody has pleaded for their lives before this point? If the point you and I share is true (that Batman views Superman as an evil that should be removed), then there should have been no stopping him. He doesn't want to kill Sups but has to because Sups unleashed is a threat to all.

So if you had an extremely vivid dream with someone calling out your name and begging you repeatedly to find "Lois lane" then you wouldn't google who Lois Lane is right after the dream?

I wouldn't be surprised if him looking up Lois Lane is in the Ultimate Cut.

As for your second point, yeah, I believe him not listening to Superman before his last words were a result of him just tuning out Clark and going into full kill-mode. Stabbing someone to death is a very intimate thing, by nature, and when he's finally close enough to finish Superman off he can't help but hear Superman pleading for his mother. Then Lois Lane, who the Flash said was the key to everything, comes running in begging him to stop.

[SiegePerilous02]

Not really because for the purposes of this movie, Batman hasn't done any research whatsoever so how does he know that's Lois? (did I miss the introduction?)

She could have been a random Metropolis groupie just trying to save Superman.

I read your points on the misconceptions and you have a slight contradiction between the time when Batman is in full rage, ready to kill Superman out of necessity and when he hears "Martha" and is taken aback. Isn't this the Batman who has been working tirelessly for 20 years to save his city? Are we expected to believe that nobody has pleaded for their lives before this point? If the point you and I share is true (that Batman views Superman as an evil that should be removed), then there should have been no stopping him. He doesn't want to kill Sups but has to because Sups unleashed is a threat to all.

Does he need know much about this woman other than the fact that she obviously cares about the person he's about to kill to the point that she's throwing herself between them? That's more than enough to sell the fact that he's about to kill somebody who has loved ones that Bruce is robbing them of.

And your other point...this is the only point where Batman has somebody at his mercy and is about to kill them. He doesn't have such a moment with the thugs he allows to die earlier in the film, they're not face to face and it was done in the heat of battle. The human trafficer he tortures for information, but leaves him cuffed for the police. There is the matter of the Bat-Brand, but even that's a lot more detached than what Bruce was about to do to Clark.

[3DMaster]

Two bad movies that were just bad in opposite ways.

Actually, they're kinda bad in the same way; they're both multiple movies compressed to one:

The Green Lantern is the origin story, the expansion of his universe/introduce the corps story, and facing his greatest challenge the entity Parallax which utterly defeated him in the comics films slammed together with a sledge hammer.

Batman v. Superman; is similarly multiple stories/movies crunched together to try and catch up to Marvel movie; it has the consequences of Superman's horrible handing of Zod; which literally got blown up, a Batman v. Superman story, the Death of Superman, a Wonder Woman origin and a Justice League origin all crunched together in a single movie. And a good chunk of the problems with this movie stem directly from that.

[Lt. Colonel Al Simmons]

Does he need know much about this woman other than the fact that she obviously cares about the person he's about to kill to the point that she's throwing herself between them? That's more than enough to sell the fact that he's about to kill somebody who has loved ones that Bruce is robbing them of.

And your other point...this is the only point where Batman has somebody at his mercy and is about to kill them. He doesn't have such a moment with the thugs he allows to die earlier in the film, they're not face to face and it was done in the heat of battle. The human trafficer he tortures for information, but leaves him cuffed for the police. There is the matter of the Bat-Brand, but even that's a lot more detached than what Bruce was about to do to Clark.

Argh, but these are the inconsistencies Zack left us with the movie. We know Batman has fought off other foes than the thugs in the movie. We know that Batman has become more ruthless over the years. So aren't we allowed to assume that others have begged for their lives before he killed them?

He does need to know the significance of this woman if we are to believe that he's an unhinged shell of his former self.

[BatmanBeyond28]

Argh, but these are the inconsistencies Zack left us with the movie. We know Batman has fought off other foes than the thugs in the movie. We know that Batman has become more ruthless over the years. So aren't we allowed to assume that others have begged for their lives before he killed them?

He does need to know the significance of this woman if we are to believe that he's an unhinged shell of his former self.

What are you even talking about?

When Batman brands the sex-trafficker, Alfred drops the newspaper on the table in front of Bruce the next day with a picture of the branded thug and says "New rules, ah?" As though the branding was actually a new thing for him.

To which, Bruce replies, "We're criminals, Alfred. We've always been criminals."

The line was actually probably directed at the audience to inform us that this Batman plays by different rules and Batman's reply shows you that his mindset is a very broken and dark version of the Batman we usually know.

[Lt. Colonel Al Simmons]

What are you even talking about?

When Batman brands the sex-trafficker, Alfred drops the newspaper on the table in front of Bruce the next day with a picture of the branded thug and says "New rules, ah?" As though the branding was actually a new thing for him.

To which, Bruce replies, "We're criminals, Alfred. We've always been criminals."

The line was actually probably directed at the audience to inform us that this Batman plays by different rules and Batman's reply shows you that his mindset is a very broken and dark version of the Batman we usually know.

Got it. My take from the movie was that he has been branding them already and it was the equivalent of a death sentence in jail. It couldn't have been a death sentence if it was only one person, right? The newspaper was just highlighting the issue with the branding, not that it was his first time.

[SiegePerilous02]

Argh, but these are the inconsistencies Zack left us with the movie. We know Batman has fought off other foes than the thugs in the movie. We know that Batman has become more ruthless over the years. So aren't we allowed to assume that others have begged for their lives before he killed them?

He does need to know the significance of this woman if we are to believe that he's an unhinged shell of his former self.

You are allowed to assume that if you want, but I don't think there's much to support it. The branding is new according to Alfred, and the other instances of Bats killing are really quick in heated combat situations. No instance of him having somebody at his mercy and seconds away from stabbing them.

[Lt. Colonel Al Simmons]

You are allowed to assume that if you want, but I don't think there's much to support it. The branding is new according to Alfred, and the other instances of Bats killing are really quick in heated combat situations. No instance of him having somebody at his mercy and seconds away from stabbing them.

And that seems to be the issue between the people that love it and don't: what are we allowed to assume with and without support? If we are only allowed to use the information between MoS and BvS, then we have big issues. I'm still not buying the fact that Lex was able to commandeer the Kryptonian ship lol.

[BatmanBeyond28]

Got it. My take from the movie was that he has been branding them already and it was the equivalent of a death sentence in jail. It couldn't have been a death sentence if it was only one person, right? The newspaper was just highlighting the issue with the branding, not that it was his first time.

Alfred was the one to say "New Rules, Ah?"

And later, we hear the news station say "It is believed that the brand is a death sentence in prison..."

It could be that it's not the first time Bruce has done it but it is the first time that Alfred has found out about it? Not sure.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

You are allowed to assume that if you want, but I don't think there's much to support it. The branding is new according to Alfred, and the other instances of Bats killing are really quick in heated combat situations. No instance of him having somebody at his mercy and seconds away from stabbing them.

Yeah he put them in positions were could possible die, he didn't kill the sex trafficker just branded him and he didn't directly kill KGBeast he simply blew his tank and if you look closely you'll see KGBeast was the one who set himself on fire. The only time was willing to kill directly was Superman and even then he kept spouting that Superman wasn't a man as a sort of rudimentary justification of that act was about to commit, and the reason he didn't kill Superman? Because he was humanised into a man in the end by that Martha moment, Bruce knew there was no way he could do it and deep down I feel like there was a sense of relief in him.

[Lt. Colonel Al Simmons]

Alfred was the one to say "New Rules, Ah?"

And later, we hear the news station say "It is believed that the brand is a death sentence in prison..."

It could be that it's not the first time Bruce has done it but it is the first time that Alfred has found out about it? Not sure.

I can agree and believe that. Alfred isn't out with Bats, so he probably assumes that it's business as usual.

OR (see this is getting fun)

Alfred doesn't really lecture Bruce or try to bring him back from the terrible place he's at right now. It seems like Alfred was more surprised like "oh, is this part of your brooding ways now?"

We can keep going down these various rabbit holes. I will say this as a fact: I appreciate everyone's opinions and thoughts on the movie. It doesn't really change my opinion, but it does give me more understanding on why someone would like it.

I can't wait for the Director's Cut.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The Bruce training montage was awesome. Totally put all the Bale one's to shame ha.

[SiegePerilous02]

The Bruce training montage was awesome. Totally put all the Bale one's to shame ha.

Yeah, Affleck was such a beast in this.

I mean, I wouldn't wanna get into a fight with the dude anyway when he's in his normal physique, but doubly so here.

[Triple J]

And that seems to be the issue between the people that love it and don't: what are we allowed to assume with and without support? If we are only allowed to use the information between MoS and BvS, then we have big issues. I'm still not buying the fact that Lex was able to commandeer the Kryptonian ship lol.

Well, Clark was able to do it in MOS - all he needed was Jor-El's key.

Lex is way smarter than Clark, and he had Zod's key. Shouldn't be too hard for him to figure things out.

[BruceWayneJr.]

This movie broke me. Terrible script, terrible direction, terrible plot. A complete misunderstanding of almost EVERY character. No stand-out performances (but again, they didn't have anything to work with). The longest 2 hours of your life until you see anything close to superhero action. Just a depressing, dour slog.

A total misfire and one of the worst superhero films I've ever seen. It absolutely fails at doing the characters justice or as a piece of entertainment. Someone at Warner should know better.