Batman V Superman DOJ Disccusion (Spoilers)

[Lightning Rider]

I'll actually run through the thread tomorrow but let me just say I loved it. I was skeptical in the first half, I definitely saw the choppy editing, it had its ups and downs, but by the end, I was in love. Edge of my seat the whole time.

The good:

-Superman was at once humanized and deified, and he showed real emotion struggling to find his place in the world. And he kicked plenty of ass.
-Batman was spot on, both as Bruce and Batman. Alfred was wonderful too.
-Their reasons for fighting were fleshed out so well. The legless guy added a whole new element to Bruce's tragedy, and Clark also had many mounting reasons to despise Batman and ultimately he still tried to work with him.
-The fight was great. Both had their moments.
-The Martha moment is what did it for me. It spoke so much about Clark's humanity, and showed their parallels as men who simply love their mothers.
-Wonder Woman's character was built up gradually and her introduction to the battle felt earned. Not as much character development as I thought but the mystery angle worked well.
-Doomsday's origin was fucking cool. Lex on the ship created such suspense. Special effects were a bit much but their fight was awesome as well.
-Superman dying not once but twice was interesting, and they left that perfect cliffhanger. It wasn't a cheap non-death, but it wasn't exactly permanent either (I mean how could Justice League not have him?) I loved that the world mourned him. He died a hero.
-Lex was baddass. His quirks I didn't love but didn't hate. His intelligence and capacity for evil were readily apparent. That last scene was brilliant too.
-There was plenty of humor (ok maybe not plenty but enough to break up the seriousness of the film). Alfred cracked jokes, Perry cracked jokes, Martha cracked a joke, Superman and Batman each had funny moments.
-The cameos were mostly tasteful. A bit heavy handed, but it's not like they were full on appearances.
-Overall I loved the emotional pull in so many of the scenes, especially with Lois. Genuinely touching.
-Batman's detective work was legit. Him on the bat computer so often felt so right.

The bad:
-The opening sequences weren't linked together well, including the hearings. Very choppy.
-The Lane subplot and nightmare scene I agree could have been done without, it stuck out too much. Especially with what I presume was the Flash time traveling. It seemed so random and out of place.
-The car chase was choppy and unnecessary. It was more confusing than entertaining.
-I can totally see why critics hated the movie. This movie was made for hardcore fans, and even they're hard to please. But there are definitely moments the critics must have been like "wtf is going on".

[Powertool]

Being Italian, I could see BvS on the 23rd rather than having to wait the 25th like most of the world. The friend of mine who came with me to the theater told me after the screening that he couldn't think of any superhero movie being better than this one. Admittedly, he often gets over-excited about this kind of things but I'm glad this flick cured him of his "there's too many of them! And all the same!" syndrome that he caught after prolonged exposure to MU films (both Disney and Fox). On my part, I was overall satisfied, though with a few caveats.

- I genuinely cared about the good guys in this movie. All of them. I hardly remember the last time that happened to me while seeing a huge blockbuster movie. I couldn't establish an emotional connection with the protagonists while watching Pacific Rim. Or Age of Ultron. Or The Force Awakens. Or Hunger Games. Or Jurassic World. But this movie was successful. My pulse actually raced during the final confrontation, because I deeply cared about the final fate of one of the protagonists. A movie that managed to charge me with such emotions can be disjointed, can be rough around the edges, but it can't be BAD.

- Speaking of disjointed things, the last section of the movie (the "fallout of the action", if you want) made me scratch my head with its awkward pacing. I even whispered to my friend as a joke: «Gee, this movie has even more finales than The Return of the King.»

- The movie really delivers when it comes to seeing the result of the build-up occurring in the first two thirds of its length and keeps the stakes of it all focused. This might sound strange to you, but superhero flicks rarely do that anymore for me. It's the reason why I couldn't bring myself to actually love The Winter Soldier, despite recognizing it had some very compelling sequences. A friend of mine summarized it perfectly: "I don't like movies where everything from the ideal of liberty to your grandma's Social Security are at stake." Seeing that the great evil plan of TWS was centered on hijacking three helicarriers that we were described absolutely overpowered but couldn't even hit Falcon when the time came to prove their worth really ruined the tension build-up.

- Ben Affleck really managed to bring to the silver screen the one facet of Batman that had never been translated to that media: the paranoid jerk. On the other hand, since the movie makes clear that he doesn't completely have his head up his @$$ and therefore doesn't think that his farts smell like begonias (as some comic book incarnations) I congratulate both the actor and the screen-writer.

- I went in expecting to be amazed by Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, and while she met my expectations, Lois Lane was the one who really stole the show. Seriously, as far as I'm concerned, Amy Adams IS the ultimate cinematographic Lois Lane in my book. She may not be the Army brat she was in her post-Crisis incarnation, but BvS showed her at her full potential, as exposed by Clark himself in the early Nineties with the sentence «Batman has Robin, the Lone Ranger has Tonto, Superman has Lois Lane».

- I realize that I'd feel quite hypocritical if I'd dismiss out of hand every critical piece bashing the DCEU world for being "grim and joyless", because I thought too, in quite a few occurrences, that BvS would have benefited if the atmosphere had lightened up a few times. But then I also faced the undeniable fact that HBO's Game of Thrones, one of the most awarded TV shows of this decade, beloved both by the audience and the critics, is set in a world that is SO bleak to result as unrealistic as the shiny-happy Silver Age DC Universe. Knowing that in this movie sex isn't an activity correlating exclusively to abuse, storylines aren't hijacked by serial killers-cum-rapists and emotional moments between two characters don't exist only as cheap tricks to make the death of one at the hands of the other extra-shocking kind of reminded me that it's all a matter of perspective.

In the end, I'd give this movie a solid 6.5. Two hours and a half of my life I don't regret in the least, but now I feel August and Suicide Squad cannot come soon enough, since after two Zack Snyder's movies my friend (who saw for the first time the SS trailer in all its Bohemian Rhapsodic glory before the screening began) and I are really curious to see David Ayer's take on the DCEU.

[nightrider]

I love the show. Most beautiful movie I've ever watched

[Darthkostis]

Copying this from SideshowFreaks where I first posted it yesterday, after coming back from the film:

Okay, I just came back, so, it's time for the all-encompasing "Kostis Review". Not that anybody cares, but... I'll break it down because I don't want to come off as a hater or something like that. I want people to see where I'm coming from and the reasons why I did/didn't like certain things. Just a note, the majority of comics I've read are Marvel ones, but I like both equally. I want that right out of the gate, so that I'm not labeled a studio fanboy. I like Valiant, DC, Marvel, Image, Boom!, etc, pretty much equally. Anyway, let's get started...

THE GOOD:

-Affleck's Batman: Affleck kills it. He's got the Wayne charisma, the presensce and absolute of Batman and is in general the movie's BEST character. He's intimidating, scary and virtually a beast of a man. Plus, we do get a bit of his engineering, detective and science skills, something that's been missing from most Live-Action versions. In short, he's great. If he helms the solo, I've got no reservations. Thumbs up!

-Gadot's Wonder Woman: Gadot, in her limited screen time, manages to capture the elegance, beauty, determination and general presensce of Diana. She's strong, absolute, "old", but still enjoyable. She's got reservations about the whole thing, but that doesn't stop her from fighting the good fight when she has to. Also, I'm really liking all the Greek nods. Her origin and roots are very important to me, so I'm glad it's being treated with respect. Alexander's Sword was a nice touch, and I'm really happy they didn't go the current route and specifically mention it's from Skopiaor some ****. Alexander was Greek was Greek, Macedonia is Greek, end of story. That might be political, but I'm not a fan of my country's legacy being stolen. I'm the first guy to judge our current state, because we deserve it, but don't touch out history. Either way, Gadot gets thumbs up from me, and if they continue treating her roots with respect, I'm all in. Thumbs up!

-Irons' Alfred: He's perfect! Tired, judge, sarcastic, but still supportive. He's so good he even makes the pretentious dialogue have gravitas. You ask me, he;s better than Caine. He looks and sounds like the grizzled English millitary man that Alfred is. He also shows his scientific side by helping Bruce with his suit, gadgets and the like. In general, he's brilliant. Thumbs up!

THE SO-SO:

-The costumes/feel: I have to say, I somewhat enjoyed the whole feel of the movie. It's not depressing or upbeat, it's somewhere in the middle. It could've been better, but eh, it's servicable. At times it's far too "look at me, I'm important!", but it is a nice change of pace from Marvel's sunny and always well lit screens. It's dark, but not hellish.

-The Fights: They're not great. They're far too videogame-y and they take you out of the film. Seriously, the CGI is atrocious there. The final Trinity vs Doomsday fight looks as if clay-people are fighting inside an oven. I really don't know where 3 years of work went... The Knightmare sequence is especially bad. Snyder tries to make his "hallway fight", but it doesn't even come close to Daredevil. Apart from that, the Batman/Superman fight is great, as Batman brings the pain. The final one, while messy, does have a certain "comic book" feel to it, that puts a smile on your face.

-Cavill's Superman: Cavill ain't bad, he just doesn't have lots to work with. All he gets to do is be compared to God and be moppy, that's it. It's as if MoS never happened, and this is his first time donning the tights. He's not Superman. If anything, he's Young Justice's early Superboy, who's not sure of his place in the world and feels a burden.

THE BAD:

-The Writting: Jesus Christ, is this film pretentious. Every Superman scene is filled with God talk. It's as if they wanted to make a film about the mortality of man, but instead went with "eh, let's shout GOD every 2 seconds, it's the same thing". It's not nuanced, it's not intelligent. It's hamfisted, boring and poorly conceived. The characters talk like they're reciting speeches, not like regular people.

-The Characterization: Superman doesn't care about people, he cares about Lois. Seriously, he practically says that in the bath scene. It's meant to be a "you're the most important thing for me" moment, but it comes off as a "screw the world, you're all I care about". Apart from that, Batman's morals are so relaxed at this point, that he might as well be Moon Knight. Seriously, I felt like watching Ellis' Moon Knight hit the screen. The anger, the branding, it's just not Batman. I get that he's at his darkest, but the deaths have no value. They don't make sense, and are just there for him to be "different".

THE EXTREMELY BAD:

-Eisenberg's Luthor:If you think he was annoying in the trailes, oh boy, are you in for a treat. He twitches, he screams, he makes incoherent speeches, he has no real motivation apart from ranting about God, and he's again, annoying. He's not the Luthor I know. He's not Animated Luthor, Earth One Luthor, Prime-Earth Luthor, Movie Luthor, Gods and Monsters Luthor, he's not even Lego Luthor. He's awful and when I say that, I mean it. He doesn't have any redeeming qualities. He's not the Ubersmench, the Ultimate Man whose jealousy gets the better of him. He's an angry and psychotic man-child. The final scene has him screaming "ding, ding, ding" for about a minute. Seriously, that's his final scene...

-The JL Set-Up: The visions make no sense. The Parademons aren't explained. Darkseid's Symbol isn't explained. Batman's visions in general aren't explained. It's all messy and clearly a "put them in so we can make Avengers money" decision. It doesn't anything, it doesn't explain Bruce's motivation and it feels really out of place. Plus, it's really short. If you've seen the fist 2 trailes, you've seen it all, seriously. More on the spoiler section...

-Doomsday: He's wasted, plain and simple. He grows some spikes as the fight goes on, but not enough for him to look like his comic counterpart. He feels like the final Boss in a video-game. No story, no sense, just a big, dumb, ugly brute for the heroes to fight and come together. He comes in as a dissapointment, and leaves as an even bigger dissapointment...


GENERAL THOUGHTS:

This is a very messy and contrived movie, there's no doubt. It's not as bad as people make it, because the good make it worthy enough to waste 10$, but it's in no way good. It doesn't look like a 3 year project, more like a 1-year cash-grab. It's not the worst thing ever, but it's in no way a good set-up. It feels like the movie that should be the 4th or 5th in the DCEU, not the second. It's obviously a rush-job, but it has enough good things in there that make it a... not absymal starting point. I wouldn't see it again, but I may give the Blu-Ray a look just for the Batman scenes. I'd reccomend for you to see it, just out of curiosity. The Greek's Rating: 5/10

THE FUTURE:

Snyder has to go. It's no coincidence the Batman scenes are great and everything else is bad. Affleck and Terrio obviously touched those parts, but everything else is pure Snyder and Goyer. Pseudo-Intellectual BS, same old "nuanced" God v Man themes, just in general a bad tone. The "feel", meaning the whole lighting and vibe is god, but the underlaying themes are awful. get rid of Snyder, make Affleck the Batman head and bring in Miller for everything else. There's still hope, but Snyder has to go...

I should mention that he theatre was almost packed, which is strange, since it was the first showing, at 19:00. The next showing was full as well, so that bodes rather good for the Box Office. BUT, everytime the Superman, God V Man scenes came up, people groaned, a lot. When Batman was on screen everything was silent and people were glued to the screen, but the rest? Let's say they all probably felt the same as I did...

PARENTAL ADVISORY:

Personally, I wouldn't take anyone younger than 10, unless he/she can handle jump-scares, darkness, loud explosions and screams. There's a dream-scene in particular which goes like this: Bruce visits his mother's grave. He goes there and the stone starts to bleed. The movie goes silent as he touches the blood. For a while nothing is happening and then BAM! a giant, Bat-Demon-Zombie hybrid jumps out and starts screaming and opening its mouth... It's tasteless and only meant to make the film "mature".

TL;DR:

It's not awful, but it's not good. It has some good things that make it worthy of the price of admission. Let Snyder go, forget this, and move forward. It can only be better. And I can't believe I'm saying this, but... Make Batman the Iron Man of the universe. He deserves it, and is the only character/actor combination than can carry the DCEU and make everyone forget about this.

[Darthkostis]

SPOILERS:

spoilers:

-The JL Files: Eh, they're...okay, I guess? They look cool, and what I'm guessing is the Mother-Box is cool-looking, but it's so blatantly cheap as a stunt, that it ruined the whole thing for me. Seriously, them hyping Flash, Aquaman and the like was just a stunt. Momoa appears for seconds and... is there... Allen looks like Ezra. Ponytail, black hair, stubble and all. -The Flash Visit: Um... what? So, he travels back in time to warn Bruce, but all of that happens inside his dream... I repeat, what? Going back in time I get, but did he cross inside the dream of a dream? What is he, Sandman/Morpheus? The sequence goes: Knightmare ->Bruce wakes up ->Flash appears -> Bruce wakes up again. It doesn't make sense and it's really out of place. His suit has a faceplate with no eyes... He looks like an all-red Iron Man TBH. -Luthor's Motivation: My guess is that Deesad is playing both him and Bruce. When he's sent to prison he talks about demons and things beyond the stars. It's obviously what they wanted to do, possibly with a Darkseid Post-Credits scene, but it'd have been to similar to the Avengers one, so they dropped it. Thing is, this seriously hurts the film, as Luthor doesn't really have a motive otherwise. -Superman's Death: So, he dies in his second outing, and then, before the funeral is even over, he essentially rises again... Even Jesus waited 3 days. This is just... bad, man. His death has no meaning or gravitas, it just happens to give Bruce motivation. Which is laughable, cause 1 day ago he wanted to kill him, and then he talks as if they were best buds. -Martha: So, let me get this straight: Batman's ready to kill Superman. But then, Superman talks about a Martha, which triggers a repressed emotions and leads Batman to reconsider. Okay, corny, but I can buy it. What I don't buy is Superman referring to his mother as "Martha". Jee, you'd think he'd say something like "he's going to kill my mother!" but no, he says "Martha". Well, I guess I should start calling my dad "goodnight Sotiris", like he's my best bud. It's contrived that it's awful. In general, it feels as if this was supposed to be the 4th or 5th movie, and the files and such nods, but instead, we get them as introductions. A MoS sequel should've been first, setting up Deesad and Luthor, who slowly influences him. Having him just mention real-life threats out of the blue during the last few minutes is idiotic and reeks of desperation. The Cyborg bit is especially bad. Had we seen the explosion and all that in a previous film, it would've been goose-bump worthy to see his father's progress. As it stands, he's just a guy trying to save another guy by using a random mcguffin. Weak, weak, weak. More movies were needed, and this should've been the bridge between them, not their set-up.

end of spoilers

[Rogue Star]

I never pass an oportunity to say I dislike Man of Steel. ALOT. But BvS was much, much better. The only complaint I have is that there are scenes in the movie that totally took me out of it. The dream sequence and the scene where WW is seeing video footage of other metahumans felt really awkward and jarring to me (especially awkward was the Cyborg footage). At points the movie felt like it had a split personality and it was disappointing because I knew it wasn't unavoidable -- that's what kept it from automatically being the best comic book movie of the year.

[SSJett]

I'll actually run through the thread tomorrow but let me just say I loved it. I was skeptical in the first half, I definitely saw the choppy editing, it had its ups and downs, but by the end, I was in love. Edge of my seat the whole time.

The good:

-Superman was at once humanized and deified, and he showed real emotion struggling to find his place in the world. And he kicked plenty of ass.
-Batman was spot on, both as Bruce and Batman. Alfred was wonderful too.
-Their reasons for fighting were fleshed out so well. The legless guy added a whole new element to Bruce's tragedy, and Clark also had many mounting reasons to despise Batman and ultimately he still tried to work with him.
-The fight was great. Both had their moments.
-The Martha moment is what did it for me. It spoke so much about Clark's humanity, and showed their parallels as men who simply love their mothers.
-Wonder Woman's character was built up gradually and her introduction to the battle felt earned. Not as much character development as I thought but the mystery angle worked well.
-Doomsday's origin was fucking cool. Lex on the ship created such suspense. Special effects were a bit much but their fight was awesome as well.
-Superman dying not once but twice was interesting, and they left that perfect cliffhanger. It wasn't a cheap non-death, but it wasn't exactly permanent either (I mean how could Justice League not have him?) I loved that the world mourned him. He died a hero.
-Lex was baddass. His quirks I didn't love but didn't hate. His intelligence and capacity for evil were readily apparent. That last scene was brilliant too.
-There was plenty of humor (ok maybe not plenty but enough to break up the seriousness of the film). Alfred cracked jokes, Perry cracked jokes, Martha cracked a joke, Superman and Batman each had funny moments.
-The cameos were mostly tasteful. A bit heavy handed, but it's not like they were full on appearances.
-Overall I loved the emotional pull in so many of the scenes, especially with Lois. Genuinely touching.
-Batman's detective work was legit. Him on the bat computer so often felt so right.

The bad:
-The opening sequences weren't linked together well, including the hearings. Very choppy.
-The Lane subplot and nightmare scene I agree could have been done without, it stuck out too much. Especially with what I presume was the Flash time traveling. It seemed so random and out of place.
-The car chase was choppy and unnecessary. It was more confusing than entertaining.
-I can totally see why critics hated the movie. This movie was made for hardcore fans, and even they're hard to please. But there are definitely moments the critics must have been like "wtf is going on".

I know about the Doomsday death, but what was the other death?

[manofsteel1979]

A few more impressions this morning before I see it again in a few hours...

1) I think the wailing and gnashing of teeth online about Batman killing and using guns is a little over the top. The only time you see him using guns against humans (aside from when he used the a gun to puncture the flame thrower tank on KG Beast)is in the Darkseid dream sequence. Yes, he's more brutal than past film Batmen, but not excessively so. He's really no worse than Keaton Batman when it comes to definite kill count. He was clearly the Frank Miller Batman come to life, which I think all of us expected the moment the we heard that TDKR quote that heralded the arrival of this movie at the comic-con in 2013

2) If THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is about Bruce Wayne realizing that he got lost in his monster and he had to get out before it completely swallowed him,BATMAN v SUPERMAN and Batman's arc is what happens to Batman after 20 years in the belly of the beast. He's clearly not a good guy in this for much of the film. We are SUPPOSED to be shocked and a little frightened of him at times. The point is at the end, after Superman sacrificed himself and showed what a pure noble heart he had in spite of his flaws, Bruce starts to regain his idealism and finds a new purpose for himself as Batman. The fact he scares the crap out of Lex at the end and doesn't brand him is a clue he's on his way back from the brink.

3) Did not put it together that Luthor's Russian thug was KG BEAST. Huh.

4) I did get a "Jimmy" vibe from the guy in the desert with Lois. I was thinking, He'd have been a decent Olsen. I find that Apparently that WAS Jimmy. erm....

Oh well, I like Jenny. (as I say that in my Forrest Gump voice)

5) Lawrence Fishburne is my favorite Perry White on the big screen.I thought he was sort of just there in MOS,but they gave him time to shine here. Lane Smith is still #1 for me though.

6) This film could have and should have been called MAN OF STEEL 2 : BATMAN v SUPERMAN,because even though BATMAN gets a lot of play in terms of world building, EVERYTHING revolves around Superman.


This is still Superman's movie, he's the clear protagonist.Batman is Lex's pawn until act 3.

7) Everyone says the Martha thing is contrived and convenient,but when you think about it, it makes sense at that moment for Supes to say "Martha" and not "mom". It's clear to me that after Superman figures out Batman is Bruce Wayne, he did research and probably figured out his parents murder is the reason he became Batman. Clark knew he had to reach that scared boy at the heart of Batman to get him to come to his senses and help him save his Mother and stop Lex. What easier way than to evoke Bruce's mothers name? It was meant to be the proverbial smack to the face to get Bruce to step back and realize both of them was being Manipulated.

8) People online keep saying that the bullet thing with Lois doesn't go anywhere. It does and has a pay off. as it connects Luthor to the middle east incident at the start and his manipulations. Yes, it is a thread that is hard to follow,but if you pay attention you'll be fine.

9) Yes the editing and transitions aren't as clear as they could be during the first half,but if you pay attention you won't get lost. I think that's why a lot of critics are crucifying this. They are used to film like this holding your hand through plot points and making the movie do the work while the viewer sits passively munching popcorn. Countless negative reviews keep evoking Marvel, almost (and in some cases outright) lamenting that this isn't some mindless popcorn muncher like a majority of the Marvel films are. The expectations of a Batman v Superman movie from some was likely along the lines of just some light entertainment. This aims at more, maybe to it's detriment at times,but at least it tries to be different.

10) So, it occurs to me that while Superman may return, outside of a mind wipe of everyone in Metropolis and Smallville, Clark Kent ain't coming back. Hmm...A DCEU Superman sans a secret Identity. Could that have been the reason for the secret Identity outing in TRUTH, an attempt for the comics Superman to match his movie counterpart in that regard? Probably not related,but an odd coincidence surely.


I'll have a more in depth review later this evening after seeing it again today.

[Predator JP]

8) People online keep saying that the bullet thing with Lois doesn't go anywhere. It does and has a pay off. as it connects Luthor to the middle east incident at the start and his manipulations. Yes, it is a thread that is hard to follow,but if you pay attention you'll be fine.

i know what they intended with that plotline but i still think it was unnecessary.
the wheelchair guy plotline is enough to convey the whole Lex flaming Superman thing.
and by the time Lois figures out who was behind all of it, Lex already kidnapped Martha so...

[Avi]

1) The killing is a bit...meh... I mean I get that Batman is darker and grittier but considering the Batman movie will only come out after JL it's to late to really explain how this darkness came to be. They hinted at his problems but that was not enough for me even if Batman did not consider himself to be a hero anymore.

2) I was disappointed that Mercy was just a disposable character. Did she have to be in that room?

3) Holly Hunter, Laurence Fishburne, Amy Adams and Gal Gadot were just great. Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill too but there was something missing, probably because I had a slight problem with the characterization. Jeremy Irons has acting skills but as a character he just felt very non-existent. Jesse Eisenberg is an actor I like to watch but he really felt more like a Joker to me (or not even that, he is more the male version of Harley).

4) That the name Martha is the reason for them stopping the conflict? Yeah, right... I get it from a comic perspective, considering she protected Bruce but in the movie it just did not come across like it. Why did they not use the dream sequence? If harming Lois makes Clark go bonkers then she should have been the wall between Batman and Superman.

5) Superman's death. I don't want to say it was pointless because I can see the emotional impact it has on the "older" heroes, who "let the youngest one die" and feel guilty about it. (Though that guilt should not be new to Bruce.) But this is the second film and they are already deep into comic book tropes with the death because their is no way Superman won't come back and everyone knows that. This is why movie writers/directors - or whoever is responsible for this one - should not automatically try to adapt so much of the comics.

6) The cinematography was awesome.

7) The religious undertones just worked really good as well as the democracy and the philosophical discussions. It was not that deep but deep enough.

[md62]

I liked it. I took my two daughters with me. One is a comic book geek like me & one just likes movies. Both of them liked it although my daughter that isn't into comics was a little confused at times.

The Good: Affleck & Gadot. Batman & Wonder Woman were great. It's a shame Superman felt like a supporting character. The fight scene between Superman & Batman. The appearance of Wonder Woman.

The Bad: Batman's dreams. Choppy editing.

The audience cheered when Wonder Woman appeared & gasped when Superman died.

[Rogue Star]

That's right, Mercy did die. I was so geeked to hear Lex say her name on the big screen. Man. I didn't even get to see her fight anyone. Maybe she'll return as an android or cyborg maybe.

[Rogue Star]

1) The killing is a bit...meh... I mean I get that Batman is darker and grittier but considering the Batman movie will only come out after JL it's to late to really explain how this darkness came to be. They hinted at his problems but that was not enough for me even if Batman did not consider himself to be a hero anymore.

2) I was disappointed that Mercy was just a disposable character. Did she have to be in that room?

3) Holly Hunter, Laurence Fishburne, Amy Adams and Gal Gadot were just great. Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill too but there was something missing, probably because I had a slight problem with the characterization. Jeremy Irons has acting skills but as a character he just felt very non-existent. Jesse Eisenberg is an actor I like to watch but he really felt more like a Joker to me (or not even that, he is more the male version of Harley).

4) That the name Martha is the reason for them stopping the conflict? Yeah, right... I get it from a comic perspective, considering she protected Bruce but in the movie it just did not come across like it. Why did they not use the dream sequence? If harming Lois makes Clark go bonkers then she should have been the wall between Batman and Superman.

5) Superman's death. I don't want to say it was pointless because I can see the emotional impact it has on the "older" heroes, who "let the youngest one die" and feel guilty about it. (Though that guilt should not be new to Bruce.) But this is the second film and they are already deep into comic book tropes with the death because their is no way Superman won't come back and everyone knows that. This is why movie writers/directors - or whoever is responsible for this one - should not automatically try to adapt so much of the comics.

6) The cinematography was awesome.

7) The religious undertones just worked really good as well as the democracy and the philosophical discussions. It was not that deep but deep enough.

Batman killed in a way that made sense to me. I mean, you don't bring a taser to a car chase/gun fight. And he didn't go out if his way to kill anyone. It just made sense in the way deaths happened. I also appreciate that Superman tried and succeeded in getting Doomsday away from the populated areas.

As a Christian, I'm tired of being beat over the head with the comparisons to Christ and God. I like when they said that we shouldn't compare Superman to Jesus, just let him be a guy trying to do the right thing. Lex is clearly Luciferian and I can deal with that being part of his character, but him holding up the 666 hand sign while talking to Superman was awkwardly meta to me, and so was Superman standing on Lois' balcony with Osiris' phallus (The Washington Monument) in the background.

[AcesX1X]

i've seen the negative critic reviews on rotten tomatoes, i've seen the negative comments throughout this forum, but my experience couldn't be any further from those outlooks.

this was quite possibly my favorite super-hero movie of all time.

it truly felt like the dc universe was colliding and merging and being born for the first time. i did believe in superman, and his story brought me to absolute tears. my entire theater erupted into cheering and applause during two crucial batman and superman scenes, and i thought people would not stop clapping when wonder woman joined the battle. lex was menacing and infuriating in a way that i really did appreciate. and lois was fantastic throughout.

all due respect, i think everyone has valid opinions. but as far as i'm concerned, this was a film of beauty, ambition, and adventure. and it fills my heart with joy to finally welcome the full dc universe to the world of cinema.

[Prime]

Superman really needs character development. I hope Snyder never touches him again.