Chi-Chi vs. Chun-Li vs. Sonya Blade

[DBZAOTA482]

Sonya Blade is barely above human level so she's defeated instantly.

Chi-Chi and Chun-Li exchange blows for a while before the former gets serious then Chun-Li would have to space Chi-Chi out with Kikouken and Hyakuretsu Kyaku... but Chi-Chi's superior stats in just about everything (aside from speed) gives her the majority.

[Ultra_Sonic]

Have you watched Dragon Ball/Z? Chi Chi may just be a housewife but she's also capable of kicking major amounts of ass if needed. It might not seem like it relative to people like Goku, Piccolo, etc, but it's there.



Goten didn't even know he was a SSJ at the time. He didn't know what it was or anything. He just got mad and attacked. Of course he wasn't going all out, but at the same time, she DID take a hit from a Super Saiyan. The other two wouldn't be able to do that.

I am a fan of Dragon Ball Z (I know that Chi-Chi is one of the strongest 100% pure humans in the Dragon Ball Universe, but then again, Chun-Li is widely considered to be one of the strongest women in the SF canon). I have never seen the Dragon Ball anime however.

I am saying that Chun Li and Sonya Blade (both timelines) have the fighting skills and experience to back up and justify their titles.

[rhyvurg]

Really?i mean really?

Are you going to start arguing about some goku feat when this is about chi chi. Jeez man.

Also chi chi manhandling goku doesnt mean she has his strength. Goku is afraid of chi chi and wouldnt use his strength against her.

Edit:Still even so, chi chi is still superhuman.

Since comparing her to Goku is a very good way to evaluating her power...yeah. She doesn't exactly have a lot of independent feats.

You mean that time that he was on a planet with unknown gravity, and started the scene drenched in sweat from training an unknown amount of time beforehand?

Which contradicts decades of feats before or after, going from Kid Goku shoving a boulder the size of a house before his final month of increased training before the 21st Budokai, outpowering a guy who repeatedly tossed stone pillars intercontinental distances, casually chucked a twentyish foot tall Piccolo heard enough to type a tower while neither of them were trying hard, more or less ignoring being shoved halfway through a hill, or smacked to the bottom of the ocean, and kicking Frieza heard enough to destroy a good chunk of two islands and shake the ground all the way to the horizon while still in warm up mode?

We know at least one kai planet has strong gravity, and we know at least one does not. We cannot assume anything about the gravity of the planet they were on at the time. All we know is he said 40 tons, it's all we have to go on so it's all we can logically assume he was dealing with. Comparing Goku to other characters like that is power scaling, a very flawed method. And due to the nature of DBZ ki, the only way to know a character's baseline abilities is to look at their worst feats, because anything greater can be explained as "he was using ki."

[The Drunkard Kid]

Since comparing her to Goku is a very good way to evaluating her power...yeah. She doesn't exactly have a lot of independent feats.



We know at least one kai planet has strong gravity, and we know at least one does not. We cannot assume anything about the gravity of the planet they were on at the time.

Hence, "unknown gravity," which means the feat automatically gets an asterisk because we don't know how much weight Goku was actually experiencing in that scene.

[EDIT: Also, it should be noted that its left vague as to whether the 2 ton weights that Goku started the scene with meant that each of the weights was 2 tons, or if they meant he was wearing 2 tons total, or if the other Kaiou made it so that Goku's weights became 10 tons *each*, were a total of 10 tons, or if he had actually turned each/total weight to 40 tons instead, as he had threatened to do. The scene is SUPER vague, even discounting that Toriyama tends to do ridiculously low numbers for weighted clothing. See: 23rd Budokai Kuririn (who was jumping super high even back before training under Korin) wondering how Goku could even walk in boots that were something in the neighborhood of 20-40 lbs.]

All we know is he said 40 tons, it's all we have to go on so it's all we can logically assume he was dealing with. Comparing Goku to other characters like that is power scaling, a very flawed method. And due to the nature of DBZ ki, the only way to know a character's baseline abilities is to look at their worst feats, because anything greater can be explained as "he was using ki."

It's interesting how you ignored the part that Goku had been training so long and hard by that point that he was drenched in sweat before his weights were even increased. Or that you assume that Goku was for some reason supressing his ki while training even though nothing in that scene even hints at that (he definitely wasn't when Kaiou-sama authorized him to continue the training in SSJ mode; if that was all that was keeping him from continuing, he could have just raised his power level to even the barest fraction of a percent of what he'd shown and continued without having to transform), especially since he spent that entire scene *actively flying*. Or that you're using a vague, extremely super low-end showing to discount multiple arcs worth of base, non-SSJ Goku showing that he is insanely beyond Class 40 when he's not even trying, even back when he was a kid, and was explicitly shown to have to actively control his strength to avoid accidentally putting Chi Chi in traction.

Unless you're saying that Chi Chi can harm Goku if he actively weakens himself enough using a skill that isn't natural to his species to be low enough for her to affect him, but at that point it becomes more a feat for Goku than Chi Chi. Besides, I'm kinda drawing a blank as to when Chi Chi ever hurt Goku outside of their first meeting as children. Was it a serious feat, or filler/comic relief like the time that Kuririn managed to hurt SSJ Goku with a rock that was thrown underhanded (meaning that it was regular gravity that did the damage and not superhuman strength) or anime Goku's fear of needles?

[Nik Hasta]

Yeah, Goku waaaay back in the Frieza saga was punching Frieza through islands.

That's a significant way above Class 40.

Using a low showing to try and undercut more consistent higher end showings is kind of the opposite of how this place works.

We take consistent high end showings. Not one off low showings.

[Aura Blaize]

I am a fan of Dragon Ball Z (I know that Chi-Chi is one of the strongest 100% pure humans in the Dragon Ball Universe, but then again, Chun-Li is widely considered to be one of the strongest women in the SF canon). I have never seen the Dragon Ball anime however.

I am saying that Chun Li and Sonya Blade (both timelines) have the fighting skills and experience to back up and justify their titles.

And Chi Chi is above that. Yes they have experience and all, but DB Earth operates at an entirely different level.

[buutenks]

Since comparing her to Goku is a very good way to evaluating her power...yeah. She doesn't exactly have a lot of independent feats.

Chi chi manhandly goku in super doesnt really count considering, when it was urgent goku easily broke free of her grasp.

Also that base goku is god absorbed goku, basically at god level.So unless you r suggesting chi chi is god tier, then that feat is simply a gag feat.

Edit:As for the 40 ton thing.

http://i.imgur.com/om86UHW.jpg

Goku is on king kai's planet.

That is prior to the god powerup.before beerus came.

[rhyvurg]

Chi chi manhandly goku in super doesnt really count considering, when it was urgent goku easily broke free of her grasp.

Also that base goku is god absorbed goku, basically at god level.So unless you r suggesting chi chi is god tier, then that feat is simply a gag feat.

Edit:As for the 40 ton thing.

http://i.imgur.com/om86UHW.jpg

Goku is on king kai's planet.

That is prior to the god powerup.before beerus came.

You're forgetting an essential part of my argument, that any greater feat can be explained by the use of ki to augment their strength, including Goku breaking away from Chi Chi. Thus, the only way to find their true baseline is their worst feats.

I feel I should clarify. I'm saying that, in the Buu Saga, Goku's base form when he is not using ki was class 40 at best.

[master of read]

yeah, i'm also gonna call BS on goku's base is class 40. it really contradicts everything else he's done in both DB and Z.

[Nik Hasta]

Saying that low end feats count for DB because no reason strikes me as more than a little disingenuous.

Heck, given that ki is inextricably linked to DB character's physical stats, claiming that his actual base is him specifically not using his powers seems real reductive.

It's a low end showing, given that Goku at a time when he was exponentially weaker than the version with the 40 ton feat was drop kicking people through islands and elbowing people through mountains. Ergo, it's not consistent with his performance and presentation.

I'll reference you to Grappler Baki, in which case the narrative asserts that standard human reaction time is 0.5 seconds, even though the real world is actually the much more impressive 0.2 seconds, and that Baki is superhuman for being able to throw attacks in this time. Given the litany of vastly more impressive feats, it's a low end showing both of the author not understanding how numbers work.

I feel Toriyama did the same.

[The Drunkard Kid]

You're forgetting an essential part of my argument, that any greater feat can be explained by the use of ki to augment their strength, including Goku breaking away from Chi Chi. Thus, the only way to find their true baseline is their worst feats.

I feel I should clarify. I'm saying that, in the Buu Saga, Goku's base form when he is not using ki was class 40 at best.

You are again ignoring the fact that he had already been training for a while before that feat, that the gravity of the planet he was on is unknown, the actual amount of weight he was given its unclear, and that there is absolutely zero reason to believe that he was using no ki.

To expound on the last point, Goku was doing strength training, so there would have been no point holding back, and he spent the entire scene FLYING, which has previously been shown to actively use ki, which is why they tend to stay on foot when they are trying to hide their ki.

Not to mention that Toriyama has a weird tendency for relatively miniscule training weights to significantly affect Goku/Piccolo/et. al, even when they're going full out. See the turtle shells from Roshi, a few hundred pounds significantly slowing him down while he was going full out with his ki against Tenshinhan and later Radditz, Piccolo doing the same against flipping Frieza, and so on.

[buutenks]

You're forgetting an essential part of my argument, that any greater feat can be explained by the use of ki to augment their strength, including Goku breaking away from Chi Chi. Thus, the only way to find their true baseline is their worst feats.

I feel I should clarify. I'm saying that, in the Buu Saga, Goku's base form when he is not using ki was class 40 at best.

So you r trying to say that chi chi is class 40?

[rhyvurg]

Saying that low end feats count for DB because no reason strikes me as more than a little disingenuous.

Heck, given that ki is inextricably linked to DB character's physical stats, claiming that his actual base is him specifically not using his powers seems real reductive.

It's a low end showing, given that Goku at a time when he was exponentially weaker than the version with the 40 ton feat was drop kicking people through islands and elbowing people through mountains. Ergo, it's not consistent with his performance and presentation.

I'll reference you to Grappler Baki, in which case the narrative asserts that standard human reaction time is 0.5 seconds, even though the real world is actually the much more impressive 0.2 seconds, and that Baki is superhuman for being able to throw attacks in this time. Given the litany of vastly more impressive feats, it's a low end showing both of the author not understanding how numbers work.

I feel Toriyama did the same.

But there is a reason. For each and every feat of strength in DBZ you try and use to evaluate what they can do, there's always the question, "But are they using ki? Is this their actual baseline?" The only way to know, is by looking at their worst.

[rhyvurg]

So you r trying to say that chi chi is class 40?

I'm saying she must be, at least.

[The Chou Lives]

Clad 40 means she bends Donya and Chun Li like pretzels.