What is your thoughts so far on the Superman/ Wonder Woman series?

[Black Angel]

It's because Azzarello is writing the best Wonder Woman story ever written.

i wouldn't say that but yea it is a decent story

[kidstandout]

It's his style, he makes the reader think. For me is pretty good when the writer do this kind of thing. Kieron Gillen follow some of the Azz formula and is taking many positives reviews in his Gods book. It's great when the writer makes the reader think instead of delivering all answers direct to the reader

that's not always a good thing, especially when he's left no real hints or clues to the missing details for so long. it's bad enough we have so little about wonder woman's origin, we've spent 32 issues on a plot revolving around zeus's throne and his seed but we still have no idea where zeus is. and let's not forget how he is basically pushed the amazon raids under the rug. in azz's quest to hype up first born, so little of ww's mythos has been touched upon that you might as well change the title to diana prince and the olympians. while the style has it's ups, he hasn't utilized it in a way that shows progression. we are no closer to understanding the missing bits then we were 20 issues ago. nothing regarding diana's background is brought up until azz can use it as promo for his plot, but then after it just disappears until azz can reveal it later. while it makes the reader greatful when something is touched up on, it makes the rest of the run a chore to read. take away first born and this becomes more apparent

[BlackFeath]

This is essentially saying the book is about the relationship and nothing else. So if you like the idea of Superman and Wonder Woman being together or not, you probably won't care how their characters are written.

I wouldn't say the book is only about the relationship.
Anyway, I'd say that everyone of us, that he/she wants to or not, is a little bit biased when he/she approaches this story, since the relationship, while not the only thing, is a part of the book.

So, those who don't like the pairing, will tend to find many negative things and put much emphasys on them, sometimes ignoring what is good, while those who like it, will tend to see more the positive aspects, as well sometimes ignoring what is bad.

Of course good and bad is very relative.

I'm biased as well, of course xD I like this pairing, even if I don't dislike other pairings as well.

All in all I have liked this book, even if I am waiting for a Wonder Woman's arc, now, that should come soon when this event is over.
It's a good book for me, but I would lie saying I like everything about it. For example the fact Diana didn't check Clark's home in Metropolis, even if I agree on the fact sometimes she can be single-minded, seemed a little bit too forced to me, just to throw in Batman and show he knew Clark better.

Also the 'I can't survive in space too much' I didn't like very much. I don't like it on its own (I just don't like Diana played down. And yeah, I know this will probably change in the future, but at the moment I don't like it. And I know that sometimes she couldn’t survive in space in the past, but other times she could, and I would have liked for the latter to be still the case) but also because I don't see any need in it (maybe Soule will make me wrong in the future?), since if it was just to explain why Diana didn't follow Clark into space, like it seems to me at the moment, she had already valid reasons with the Smallville's coma and Lois's problem to stay on Earth.

While I don't dislike Diana's portrayal in this book, I still like better Azz's. I think he writes her better for certain aspects, like her attitude toward the being Zeus's daughter. Too much emphasys was put on it in the SMWW book, for me. In Wonder Woman's solo Diana struggles to be better, not to be a 'goddess' and act as own, while in SMWW she seems to like too much this fact.

That said, I wouldn't be against Soule writing Diana after Azzarello. In some situations, in fact, I liked how she was portrayed. The fight against Zod and Faora and the how she fiercely protected Clark, how she made him believe in himself after he knew about Doomsday, and recentely after he was infected. How she still believes in him when many others have stopped to, and also her speech to the girls trained by Hessia. I liked how he interpreted Diana's powers as god of war, and also the meaning of it, and also Hessia and the healing ray, and that he reintroduced Doom's door. I think that in her own book, he could write her even better than he has till now in SMWW.

I liked the twist of Apollo powering up Zod and Faora. I really didn't expect it, and also how Hessia acted. I am really curious about her right now.

I liked also the scene of the nuclear explosion. Yeah, for some it may raises the question 'would have Diana survived on her own?', but really, it was a very good scene for me, and I can't imagine Superman act in a different way he did, especially toward the woman he loves. Both Clark and Diana have been showed as being very protective of each other, as they should.

[Majesty]

I'm honestly just waiting to see them break up and finding out what drew her to Bruce tbh.

As far as the book goes it seems more and more obvious that people have a hard time actually writing Wonder Woman's character. They hit the mark on some points, miss it completely in others. It doesn't peeve me off as much as the Devastation depiction of her but there's many parts that make me roll my eyes. This whole 'nerf' no 'buff' no 'nerf' inconsistency they constantly do to her has been bugging me for years.

But anyway their 'story' isn't even top 10



People have grown tired of the pairing and not really because it isn't Lois and Clark. But more or less because their relationship is more bound on ego bending and inferiority complex "no one is better than us, let's rule the galaxy together unstoppable like"

It's basically like when two teens get together. The unfortunate thing is on principle Wonder Woman would never "get" with someone just because she sees every other human as weak and on principle Superman is supposed to be smarter than that but both superiority complexes are overblown.

But that's the thing about New52 they all get to be young and stupid and if I really wanted to follow that I'd just have skipped the last 50 years of comic book history and apparently I'm not the only one that feels that way.

IT was great for shock value and something new but there really isn't much to build on there. We're both so super no one can compare to us let's be together!! Relationships built on that are doomed to fail from the start. Superman not being with Lois cause she's weak compared to him and him deterring Wonder Woman from anyone else cause no one will understand her like him because they're both so much stronger is the absolute worst premise I have ever seen written for them.

So fans really don't care at this point about their 'relationship' because there's nothing to explore aside from them tooting their own horns and sewing their royal oats through mountains. Which is something Wonder Woman is supposed to be smarter than and beyond the type of thinking for. It shouldn't "matter" to her that people aren't as strong as her because strength comes from within the heart not from the outside muscle. But again, this is new52 so Wonder Woman can be stupid and need to be told why killing is bad -_-

Basically the only issue that's going to soar is the issue they break up. Ever since Geoff Jones said their relationship was obviously going to end and "end badly" and they are put together for the sole purpose of the arc of their relationship ending THAT is what the fans actually care about and are trying to find clues that lead to that.

Otherwise it's just basically Episode 2 of Star Wars. Anakin's adventures of a Jedi. They tease you with Darth Vader breaths in each preview but it's really just a movie about his adventures as a Jedi. That's pretty much Superman and Wonder Woman's relationships... oh yeah ultimate powerful ego trip..whatever..have they broken up yet? No? Same ole same ole? Alright later.




If your relationship is gonna be meh you'd better understand how to write the characters and to me there are certain liberties that are taken with Diana's character specifically because she's with Superman as well as even more inconsistencies and uneven writing given to her. It weakens her character overall right now and in general.

And at the end of the day Superman didn't love Lois because she was stronger than him, it was because of her heart and the things she could accomplish and the people she could help without having powers.

One would assume the 'do they or don't they' relationship between WW and Batman is the same way and that is what made them so compelling because of what he was able to do because of his warriors mindset and battle tactics which is something admirable and if one remembers WW herself doesn't really think of Clark as much of a fighter or a warrior, just strong and compassionate. Batman to her is a warrior that understands war, strategy and tactics and could take down every member of the justice league if he wanted despite not having any powers and has a very vague past of his own that few have gotten deep enough to get to. That is a reason to be drawn to someone more than 'strength' and WW "should" be better than that. "Clark understands what it means to be strong. Bruce understands what it means to be a warrior.".

But as things stand she(WW) currently is not perceptive enough to understand this despite what her character is supposed to understand and why she had gotten into other relationships not on power but on person and that is a shame that they decided they could throw that out the window with their new continuity.

So this whole 'teenagers style mid-life crisis fling' that WW and Superman have going right now really means nothing. The break of that is what is going to get readers into the story. Till then it's just window dressing that is more or less skipped over. Which is a shame..it really is. And unfortunately because of this it has destroyed a lot of fans want for any actual Trinity pairing to happen. If they were going to try a 'trinity' pairing they went the wrong way and now fans don't even care about any of the trinity being together they just want to see this one end. But hey sometimes you do stuff for shock value and after the shock is gone if you don't have strong follow ups, this kind of thing happens. Not everything can be a home run. /rant over.

As far as the actual story in THIS goes, its uneven and so is the way she's written.

[Agent Z]

I'm honestly just waiting to see them break up and finding out what drew her to Bruce tbh.

As far as the book goes it seems more and more obvious that people have a hard time actually writing Wonder Woman's character. They hit the mark on some points, miss it completely in others. It doesn't peeve me off as much as the Devastation depiction of her but there's many parts that make me roll my eyes. This whole 'nerf' no 'buff' no 'nerf' inconsistency they constantly do to her has been bugging me for years.

What exactly do you mean by this? Are you referring to the pre-Flashpoint WW or Johns' WW?

[Majesty]

What exactly do you mean by this? Are you referring to the pre-Flashpoint WW or Johns' WW?

Vol 2.

I'm talking about the Wonder Woman that can be shot so easily just by feinting with your gun =P

"aha! made ya look! *boom*"

There's a lot of people that write Wonder Woman inconsistently. The reason for that is that there was never really an 'outline' given to her. If Wonder Woman got shot in a comic and then 3 issues later was walking through machine gun fire bouncing off her chest people would probably shrug their shoulders and go 'eh whatevz guess she just deflected bullets cause she wanted a challenge."

When it does come down to it though, in THIS story anyway is the uneven writing of Wonder Woman, some points he does well and other points misses the mark completely and ultimately she comes across weaker than she should in general.

Wonder Woman is so inconsistently written on page 5 she could be getting burned by Superman's heat vision and on page 6 she could be deflecting it with her fingers -_- She can withstand a nuclear bomb but weapons can penetrate her. Nuclear bomb..no problem. A straight weapon... hurts her. I don't know what kind of hero is super protected from blunt force trauma but stabbing weapons hurt her. Wonder Woman is such a hero because of those inconsistencies. You can kill her in a sword fight but not by throwing a nuke at her face. That make much sense? :P

They really just need to make a 'base' for Wonder Woman and what she can and can't do but it's left so open because they don't want to really place her on the same level as Superman but they don't want to insinuate that she can't be.

[brettc1]

You're kind of oversimplifying this, though. It's about the relationship, yes, but nothing else? They've handled world-wide threats like Zod and Doomsday, met gods, and survived a nuclear explosion. I don't really consider that sort of thing to be "their relationship", unless you've got an extremely broad definition of the word. It's equal parts superhero team up as it is romantic drama.

That said, I'm generally a fan of good storytelling first and foremost. I do care about how the characters are written. I was one of those on the fence about the relationship - I was curious about what the creators could do with the pairing, but I was also cautious because they could seriously screw it up. I was extremely disappointed with how they had handled Starfire in RHatO, for example - so much so that I stopped reading the book and pretty much ignore its existence completely. And early on, when the relationship was handled by Lobdell in the Superman solo book, I was cringing. But you know what? Superman/Wonder Woman is pretty consistently decent to good. I was pleasantly surprised by Soule and Daniel's work. In my opinion, they tell a good story, involve the characters in high flying adventure, allow us to see the differences and similarities of the principal characters, explore both of their personalities and supporting casts, and avoid most of the common traps of a relationship in a book.

The important thing here is not that the book is simply for the first group. It's also for the second group - it has convinced me (and others - just look at the aggregate reviews) that it's pretty decent overall. The romantic relationship aspect is a large part of the book, sure, but it isn't the entirety of it. Dismissing the other parts and oversimplifying like this makes me think you've got an axe to grind.

Perhaps, but your statement is as I expressed. That many people who like or dislike the book only like or dislike it because of how they feel about the relationship, and not anything else.

If we assume that this is true [thus rendering both my and Vangaurd1's opinion hopelessly biased and therefore moot] then we are left with only the opinions of those who had no preference initially as valid. Because everyone else is simply irrational.

The problem is that if someone like the book and ships the relationship, and agrees with you about why you like the book, then their opinion still doesn't count, because they would like the book anyway even if all the things you like about it were the exact opposite.

Similarly, if I agree with the same criticisms as someone who had no initial preference for who Wonder Woman should be with, it doesn't matter. I don't dislike the book for any rational reason, even if my stated reasons exactly match my non-biased counterpart.

The point is its not a productive use of time, and possibly not within the current rules of the forum, to suggest that someone likes or dislikes this book based only their shipping preferences.

[Javier Velasco]

"The point is its not a productive use of time, and possibly not within the current rules of the forum, to suggest that someone likes or dislikes this book based only their shipping preferences."

This is a correct statement. Posters should refrain from making suppositions on the motivations of other poster's posts or points of view. It doesn't really add anything to the discussion and just makes for a negative atmosphere. It is also a way of minimizing another person's ideas.

Anytime someone says "You wrote that (think that) because you think this way," they are putting themselves in a position of authority over the other person. As in, "I know better than you why you think that way and let me enlighten you."

That isn't your job and it only builds resentment.

Post as you wish and allow others to do the same.
Engage ideas, not motivations.
And never try to get inside another poster's mind.

Enjoy the boards,

Javier

[Dr. Poison]

It's because Azzarello is writing the best Wonder Woman story ever written.

Or it could be because he seems to have a very good relationship with Dan Didio.

[DochaDocha]

But anyway their 'story' isn't even top 10

Batman/Superman wasn't top 20 last month, either.

[Sacred Knight]

I'm honestly just waiting to see them break up and finding out what drew her to Bruce tbh.

Nothing's drawn her to Bruce. Its the other way around, something's drawn Bruce to her emotionally, but even then we have no idea what that emotion is to date.

[Blacksun]

Or it could be because he seems to have a very good relationship with Dan Didio.

there is bigger fish on this story, Didio wouldn't let Azz run alone for such a time. Rumors said Mark chiarello helped them

that's not always a good thing, especially when he's left no real hints or clues to the missing details for so long. it's bad enough we have so little about wonder woman's origin, we've spent 32 issues on a plot revolving around zeus's throne and his seed but we still have no idea where zeus is. and let's not forget how he is basically pushed the amazon raids under the rug. in azz's quest to hype up first born, so little of ww's mythos has been touched upon that you might as well change the title to diana prince and the olympians. while the style has it's ups, he hasn't utilized it in a way that shows progression. we are no closer to understanding the missing bits then we were 20 issues ago. nothing regarding diana's background is brought up until azz can use it as promo for his plot, but then after it just disappears until azz can reveal it later. while it makes the reader greatful when something is touched up on, it makes the rest of the run a chore to read. take away first born and this becomes more apparent

I know is complicate to follow this story, specially for people used to traditional story telling. At least for me I like this challenge read. It's his style from 100 bullets, he will resolve everyting on the end.

IT was great for shock value and something new but there really isn't much to build on there. We're both so super no one can compare to us let's be together!! Relationships built on that are doomed to fail from the start. Superman not being with Lois cause she's weak compared to him and him deterring Wonder Woman from anyone else cause no one will understand her like him because they're both so much stronger is the absolute worst premise I have ever seen written for them.

No, there is Injustice comic. Well is based on a violent game.

you know what worry about this, WW should not conform to this mindset (pretty sexist btw) that women always go to the stronger male. It's not what WW stands by.

also her no being able to say "I love you" when Superman was about to die. WTH was that? who in that situation won't say that if he/she really feels that way? that's crazy.
And Azzarello WW is resilient, she never let anything put her down.

too many contradictions that make WW be a weaker character.

Batman/Superman wasn't top 20 last month, either.

still sold more and is a older book than smww

[DochaDocha]

still sold more and is a older book than smww

BECAUSE IT'S BATMAN (said in HISHE Batman voice)! The Batman title and Batman Eternal are both in the top ten, and Tec is at practically the same level as B/S.

I've given up hoping a Superman or Wonder Woman title would crack the top ten without having one of the big name writers or artists involved in the book.

[Blacksun]

while batman/ww is a bit off this thread, I think is a good way to illustrate why SMWW is so shallow the way it is presented to us in new 52.Too bad bmww pre new 52 is not canon anymore, but in the new 52 one shot team up she seemed to understand very well Bruce/batman and them fighting together was great. Writers still didn't found something deeper for smww, the right dynamic.
And Batman definately has a crush on WW

BECAUSE IT'S BATMAN (said in HISHE Batman voice)! The Batman title and Batman Eternal are both in the top ten, and Tec is at practically the same level as B/S.

I've given up hoping a Superman or Wonder Woman title would crack the top ten without having one of the big name writers or artists involved in the book.

Batman fas aren't even that fan of the book, batman writing isn't so good. People have to stop using this excuse. And it is smww dating, never done before (in continuity), wasn't that the dream of comic book fans?

They really just need to make a 'base' for Wonder Woman and what she can and can't do but it's left so open because they don't want to really place her on the same level as Superman but they don't want to insinuate that she can't be.

This. IDK why DC has so much fixation on having Superman being the strongest, it limits other characters like captain atom,shazam, ww, black adam.

[kidstandout]

i'm curious if soule intends to takeover WW after azz, the guy is a machine. i think he could keep the quality of her solo going based on stuff ive seen in smww