Rebirth- Batman by Tom King

[Claude]

People also important enough to be on an ensemble cover of Dick's: Attachment 34208

You don't think there's any difference between "take a bow, here are characters from the previous twenty issues" and a teaser poster designed to foreshadow the characters who are going to be featured in a title?

Again, Damian being the token Robin of the TT just makes him the token Robin of the TT. Guess who also had a close relationship with the Superboy of his generation? Tim.

Heh. Were you complaining when Damian got his solo title too? "Guess who else had a solo title when they were Robin? Tim."



In terms of prominence, Damian is doing better than Tim. He's doing better than Jason. He's doing better than he himself has done for chunks of his history. For a character so fundamentally unworkable in the long-term that he was only allowed to be created on the promise that he'd be killed, I'd say he's doing OK.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

Thank both of you for the replies!

Just don't mistake him for Jeff King. I remember reading the Convergence mini and thinking "Man, Seeley really carries the weight around on Grayson" for a half minute...

[berserkerclaw]

Aside from duke being a ward of bats i like that this book will have the classic feel. Down to the clock alfred gordon the new batmobile. I hope he does more actuall dete to e work

[OWL45]

Aside from duke being a ward of bats i like that this book will have the classic feel. Down to the clock alfred gordon the new batmobile. I hope he does more actuall dete to e work

The handwriting was kind of on the wall with that. His parents not able to take care of him due to the Joker, etc. It fits the pattern and makes sense in the larger narrative for the character. He gets along with Damian which is a plus.

[joybeans]

Relax people, I'm sure Tom King will create another character who will displace Duke in 5 years anyway. Maybe he should bring Scrapps to Earth after Omega Men ends.

[Supernature]

I love everything by Tom King that I've read so far and I like Janin just fine.

I'm not into Finch though, so I'm hoping he doesn't stay too long.

Is Tom King a good writer? I haven't heard of him before this.

I've read his Vision and Omega Men and they're both great. I need to check out Grayson.

[darkseidpwns]

Problem with this situation is that it shows that DC cant get it's act together. Damian was dead,he got a clean exit,his own creator intended to leave him that way but the company published a mini series with him and then next thing you know he's in their animated movies. What it shows was that there was some larger interest in the character and DC decided to bring him back and even now he was part of the Rebirth and DC You initiatives,front and center literally. Problem imo is that there is a clash between what the company wants and what a certain someone wants. DC is only hurting themselves if they push Duke and replace Damian just to appease one guy,Damian not only serves his own narrative but also that of Batman,Dick and the Al Ghuls,all of which are proven and timeless. Damian always has a shot as long as the Al Ghuls exist,what's Duke's tether to the franchise? he's generic,bland and frankly being Black is his only claim to fame otherwise why bench the entire WAR crowd but allow Duke to continue,what makes him so much more deserving than Riko,Dre,Dax etc? Duke has no in story reasons for being anything,Bruce already has tons of sidekicks who are better trained,of the same age and in Damian's case even younger. If he was an adult then that would have been a somewhat different story but he's not so it doesn't matter. Giving him a magic training routine isn't going to solve any problems,it's just going to make people scoff at him even more and when you think about it a character as safe and likeable as him shouldn't be getting a response that ranges from meh to dislike. Duke does nothing to service anyone's story but his own,he didn't become Robin because he was a fan of them,he became Robin because Robin is an intern ship program for Batman's sidekicks and those looking for Batman's approval so he doesn't even do anything for Robin's legacy.
I just cant shake of the whole plan B vibe that I get from Duke ,an act of desperation,plan A being Harper. I hope DC is able to put their foot down on this and stop the non sense.

[JediKage]

I actually think Duke was distinct. At least in his first appearances. His way of speaking was unique. Felt autistic.

Harper Row just got messy.

Damian is unique I guess. I honestly feel a flow of Dick, Jason then gap to Damian works better. Sorry Tim Fans. Barbara into Cass works as well.

[Nite-Wing]

Damian is leading the Teen Titans and gets another book with superboy
That's still not good enough for his fans though he has to be Batman's partner in the main book because that's where the most attention will be centered around at DC.

[JediKage]

Well I be worried as well. Teen Titans hasn't been good in like a decade. There is a reason the rest of the YJ4 is warming the bench. While Tim is back under the Batman Auspices Finally. Also am I the only one that finds it weird Tim is on a team with 5, Dick is on a team of 5 and Damian is on a team of 5.

[darkseidpwns]

Damian is leading the Teen Titans and gets another book with superboy
That's still not good enough for his fans though he has to be Batman's partner in the main book because that's where the most attention will be centered around at DC.

He has to be Batman's partner because that's the status quo,no one here wants him to appear in Batman all the time or even once a year. But Batman has a sidekick,he has a son,he has a ward,he has more than one of them,so what exactly is Duke's purpose? this entire discussion could be avoided if they call Duke Lark or something or just come out clean over what they intend to do with him that makes him so different and needed. It's the same problem with Harper,they've been showing up for years now and there is no real
clarity,just a bunch of cliches repeated over and over. That ultimately is my problem,I'm not paying to read the same story again and again,I need a reason to stay and read Duke,I need to be told what new elements he'll introduce to the mythos or any new ground he'll help Batman cover. He's starred in his own ongoing and in Snyder's Batman,at this point I should know what his deal is.

[ZuLuLu]

Damian will be showing up in Batman, Nightwing,Teen Titans and Super Sons but somehow he is being sideline ?

While Snyder admitted that he didn't like to write Damian, he had cameos in both Court of the Owls and Death of the family arcs. He didn't feature in his other arcs Zero Year or Endgame but at that time Damian was either dead, had super powers or was on some mystical journey.

Also when Damian was in Batman and Robin there were a lot of complains about that book because the didn't like the dynamic between Bruce and Damian when compared to Dick and Damian, and people wishing that Bruce would hand over the care of his son to Dick at the time.

If writers want to use or not use Duke, Harper, Steph, Tim, Cass or Damian(some I like some I don't ) or invented a new character, I don't care as long as the story is good.

[ZuLuLu]

Problem with this situation is that it shows that DC cant get it's act together. Damian was dead,he got a clean exit,his own creator intended to leave him that way but the company published a mini series with him and then next thing you know he's in their animated movies. What it shows was that there was some larger interest in the character and DC decided to bring him back and even now he was part of the Rebirth and DC You initiatives,front and center literally. Problem imo is that there is a clash between what the company wants and what a certain someone wants. DC is only hurting themselves if they push Duke and replace Damian just to appease one guy,Damian not only serves his own narrative but also that of Batman,Dick and the Al Ghuls,all of which are proven and timeless. Damian always has a shot as long as the Al Ghuls exist,what's Duke's tether to the franchise? he's generic,bland and frankly being Black is his only claim to fame otherwise why bench the entire WAR crowd but allow Duke to continue,what makes him so much more deserving than Riko,Dre,Dax etc? Duke has no in story reasons for being anything,Bruce already has tons of sidekicks who are better trained,of the same age and in Damian's case even younger. If he was an adult then that would have been a somewhat different story but he's not so it doesn't matter. Giving him a magic training routine isn't going to solve any problems,it's just going to make people scoff at him even more and when you think about it a character as safe and likeable as him shouldn't be getting a response that ranges from meh to dislike. Duke does nothing to service anyone's story but his own,he didn't become Robin because he was a fan of them,he became Robin because Robin is an intern ship program for Batman's sidekicks and those looking for Batman's approval so he doesn't even do anything for Robin's legacy.
I just cant shake of the whole plan B vibe that I get from Duke ,an act of desperation,plan A being Harper. I hope DC is able to put their foot down on this and stop the non sense.

I find it unfortunate that anytime a black character is introduce and some people like him and some people don't the ones that don't like him they reduce the character down to his race.

When Duke as featured in the Future End story it received a lot of positive responses,after initial negative feed back when people first, saw the preview and many fans on realizing that he was same kid from Zero Year wanted to know how he went form being that kid to Robin in Future's End. So maybe DC simply saw that and along with Snyder decided they should tell that story.

The difference between Duke and the rest of the WAR characters and why Bruce would feel personally responsible for him is because, in Zero year Duke family saved his life so it makes sense that now that he doesn't have parent Bruce would take him in, that is who Bruce is as a characters.

If Snyder and King feel that the have a story they want to tell with a character, I am not going to tell them not to because it doesn't fit into my personal mythology.

[BloodOps]

I was hoping that Duke Thomas, like Harper Row, would just be forgotten and have small guest appearances. Now he's a freaking ward?

Crap.

[joybeans]

I find it unfortunate that anytime a black character is introduce and some people like him and some people don't the ones that don't like him they reduce the character down to his race.

I see this with post-Flashpoint Wally West all the time. Like, there are plenty of problems with the way Wally has been handled, sure. Some of problems seem to be alleviated with the Rebirth titles. But you'll still get people who keep reducing it down to "Black Wally".