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  1. #1
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    Default Where does the crossed bracelets pose come from?

    I'm trying to find some comic book examples and the oldest I can get is a José Luiz Garcia Lopez piece from around 1983 (or later).



    I checked all the comic covers from before the Crisis and none of them have this pose. I also don't remember of ever having seeing one instance in the books.

    It never crossed my mind before... but has it originated from the TV show?

    In the show, it's not a proper greeting or something, just a preparation to deflect the bullets, but she does it 5 or 6 times during the show, and other Amazons do it too. It's also featured in some promotional material.



    So, does it actually comes from the show and was "officialized" in the comics when Pérez turned it into an Amazon greeting, perhaps inspired by the series or the popularity of the pose that came from it?

    Can someone confirm or deny this?

  2. #2
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    The show is where I first remember seeing the pose. I think before this she usually poses with her arms crossed above her head.

  3. #3
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    The first place I saw it was the TV show as well. However, I distinctly remember my grandmother sitting with me and looking through an issue with Gene Colan art with her crossing her bracelets like that up close and the gunmen's images reflected in them. Volume 1 #297

  4. #4
    Incredible Member wonder39's Avatar
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    WW 297 is from the early 80s so the TV show seems more like the point of origin.

    Also are we sure that art is from 83? It seems like it's from the newer lisencing art JLGL did fairly "recently". The 83/style guide had a different inker (or it's just the progression of JLGL's art.... The overall art is a little different between the two
    ..

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Undertaker View Post
    I'm trying to find some comic book examples and the oldest I can get is a José Luiz Garcia Lopez piece from around 1983 (or later).
    I checked all the comic covers from before the Crisis and none of them have this pose. I also don't remember of ever having seeing one instance in the books.
    These don't count?


    I mean there are random instances, going back to drawings by Harry G. Peter where she's either prepping or in th act of deflecting bullets, and her arms are crossed....

    1940s-50s
    https://i.imgur.com/eJMSYoV.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/PQ94QSM.jpg

    To S v WW (José Luis García-López (1977)
    https://i.imgur.com/m085VF1.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/Jxw15I8.jpg

    To Super Friends - https://i.imgflip.com/3983v6.gif
    Above from Challenge era, 1978

    That's often how she preps to deflect bullets.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Undertaker View Post

    It never crossed my mind before... but has it originated from the TV show?

    In the show, it's not a proper greeting or something, just a preparation to deflect the bullets, but she does it 5 or 6 times during the show, and other Amazons do it too. It's also featured in some promotional material.
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/91/5e...b44bca1439.jpg



    As far as a pose, It absolutely featured strongly in the Lynda Carter 1975 –1979 promo imagery.
    And used throughout the show.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Undertaker View Post

    So, does it actually comes from the show and was "officialized" in the comics when Pérez turned it into an Amazon greeting, perhaps inspired by the series or the popularity of the pose that came from it?

    Can someone confirm or deny this?
    Like others here, as a "pose", straight on like that, my first visual of it, was also Lynda Carter, which made it absolutely iconic.

    The 1979 Mego Wonder Woman figure commercial reflects how iconic it had become. - https://i.imgflip.com/398cvg.gif
    Associated with branding and selling the character



    As did the 80's Super Powers figure, whose packaging illustration featured it.
    And the actual "Super Power" of her figure was the gimmick to in fact make her cross her bracelets.
    The depicted "Power Action Deflector Bracelets" described and illustrated on the package was a specific gimmick (movement) unique to her figure alone



    Others figures would do a punching, twisting, kicking or running motion.
    Only her figure had the specific joint cut, so triggering it would make her arms cross specifically to recreate the gesture.

    So yes by the 80's this was absolutely a go to way to depict her.

    If it's Lynda Carter who popularized, it, all the more Wonderful!
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-23-2020 at 01:35 PM.

  6. #6
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    In the post-Crisis WW comic, ..George Perez and Greg Potter made crossing the chest with bracelets, an Amazon greeting that Diana introduced to the world, through her youth movement, the Amazon Girls or Rage Girls [?]. The bourgeois, elitist girls in the group, who all wore over-priced, fake manacles, delighted in turning away poor girls, who couldn't afford them. Nessie, who was an Amazon Girl, at the time, tired of this snobbery and quit the group, after telling these little heifers to go chase themselves.

    Anyway, it started as an over-the-head thing on Lynda's show, in the 70s, and was picked up by Potter and Perez in the post-Crisis WW comic.

    I mentioned this to some Black Panther fans, and they didn't want to hear it. It's a thing, now. One told me it belonged to Black Panther, now, and I said, "Nope...it belongs to Wonder Woman fans, and we're keeping it." A fellow fan told me he and some other fans or cosplayers were harassed by Panther fans, who saw them doing the Perez/Potter greeting, at a con. I don't mind sharing the greeting, since it isn't patented for WW, ..but, we sure as Styx aren't giving it up for fans of a MARVEL movie that came out in what...2017?

    On a sidenote, ..Captain Marvel had the Macedonian star, first. I think we have to own that.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 08-29-2019 at 04:24 PM.
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  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Post Crisis (yes, these would be well after the TV show)


    WW #1


    The salute:



    [On her own Billboard (WW #9:
    Last edited by Güicho; 04-15-2020 at 05:56 PM.

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post

    I mentioned this to some Black Panther fans, and they didn't want to hear it. It's a thing, now. One told me it belonged to Black Panther, now, and I said, "Nope...it belongs to Wonder Woman fans, and we're keeping it." A fellow fan told me he and some other fans or cosplayers were harassed by Panther fans, who saw them doing the Perez/Potter greeting, at a con. I don't mind sharing the greeting, since it isn't patented for WW, ..but, we sure as Styx aren't giving it up for fans of a MARVEL movie that came out in what...2017?.
    LOL if this is about Panther fans co-opting it, and who had it first? Yeah they don't have a leg to stand on, as indicated Lynda Carter was doing it since 1975,
    it was on TV, the comics and even the action figures were doing it.
    It's not even in question.

    And she didn't skip a beat when it came time to pose, at a ceremony honoring her with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame April 3, 2018



    As a symbol of a pact....#21


    And used as a greeting # 22


    More...
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-02-2020 at 06:53 PM.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Used to signify a prayer: And call to strength

    Wonder Woman #8 (1987)


    And salute and prayer
    WW Annual #2


    And consistent well into the 2000s...


    https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.ne...600/665467.jpg
    Last edited by Güicho; 04-18-2020 at 08:32 AM.

  10. #10
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    It really only works when Lynda Carter does it and that is because of the medium itself. When you see the character posing with her arms crossed in her entirety, it actually looks silly, but when the camera zooms in on Carter's face it works. As a sort of fighting posture its pretty silly too, as your basically only covering your chest and leaving the rest of your body exposed.

    I'm against using this stance as any sort of salute too btw. This type of saluting is inherently authoritarian and patriarchal.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    It really only works when Lynda Carter does it and that is because of the medium itself. When you see the character posing with her arms crossed in her entirety, it actually looks silly, but when the camera zooms in on Carter's face it works. As a sort of fighting posture its pretty silly too, as your basically only covering your chest and leaving the rest of your body exposed.

    I'm against using this stance as any sort of salute too btw. This type of saluting is inherently authoritarian and patriarchal.
    What is patriarchal and authoritarian about crossing your arms?

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    It really only works when Lynda Carter does it and that is because of the medium itself. When you see the character posing with her arms crossed in her entirety, it actually looks silly, but when the camera zooms in on Carter's face it worksI
    Only?
    There are images (posted above) of Lynda Carter not zoomed in too, and they look great.
    It works fantastic, and looks powerful, in all mediums; Illustrated, Sculpted, and Live Action, etc.







    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    . As a sort of fighting posture its pretty silly too, as your basically only covering your chest and leaving the rest of your body exposed.
    What an outrageous statement.
    So what single hand gesture covers her whole body?
    Or are you suggesting she start with the hands by her side?
    This is one beginning gesture, obviously she is going to move depending on the threat. Are you imagining she's frozen there just cause it's an illustration? Have you never read a comic LOL?
    You know she moves right? ...and fast!
    It can obviously suggest a starting point, especial from a gun pointed right at her chest.
    Read that bolded part again before you reply, and consider the iconic nature of the pose as a starting point.
    Also nobody suggested it was or should be the only fighting stance that should be drawn, or conveyed, (only you have suggested that) that has never been or would ever be the case LOL.
    This is one of many stances she assumes, just recognizing it is an iconic one.
    Last edited by Güicho; 04-18-2020 at 08:13 AM.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    This type of saluting is inherently authoritarian and patriarchal.
    "Type"? Please define what you mean by that.
    And recognize they are warriors, and women organized towards a common. That doesn't automatically make it patriarchal. An organized group of women or others believe it or not can have clear and recognizable symbolic gesture and greeting, and not default represent the patriarchy.
    Context is everything.

    You think all symbolic hand gestures, greetings, etc,. all mean/convey the same thing, just by nature of being hand gestures?
    Wouldn't any hand gesture or greeting (real or fictitious) depend entirely on the context, and who is doing it?
    As to what it symbolizes.
    They don't all default to one meaning just by the nature of being a salute.



    Last edited by Güicho; 04-18-2020 at 03:13 PM.

  14. #14
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    What is patriarchal and authoritarian about crossing your arms?
    Historically, these types of salutes are derived from the military (the Roman salute) or from how how people treated the king and his delegates. Salutes are commonly used by armies because they are a ranked, authoritarian structures. In our modern culture, these sorts of salutes exist solely in the military, in the historical memory of authoritarian regimes or pop culture replicas of these regimes (the Empire from Star Wars) When I first saw Black Lives Matters activists doing that stupid Wakanda salute I genuinely got Fascist vibes off them because it clearly looks like a military salute.

    There are salutes that aren't authoritarian or patriarchal (like greetings, or the raised fist) but when used in crowds they aren't used with the same uniformity. During Labour Day protests you aren't going to see mobs of people with a raised fist marching with the same organization as you would see during Bastille Day.
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  15. #15
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    "Type"? Please define what you mean by that.
    And recognize they are warriors.
    And you think all symbolic hand gestures, greetings, etc,. all mean/convey the same thing, just by nature of being hand gestures?
    Wouldn't any hand gesture or greeting (real or fictitious) depend internally on the context, and who is doing it?
    Context does matter. Those women you posted are performing mudras, which each have various meanings in the religions and cultures that spawned from South Asia. You aren't pledging fealty to a king or government when you perform a mudra and as far as I know mudras were never used in that context. Mudras are primarily a form of religious expression and sometimes westerners unknowingly perform them when doing yoga.

    My problem is with military salutes. It is true that the Amazons are warriors, but warriors don't salute each other. Soldiers do, however, salute (Yes, I am implying there is a difference between warriors and soldiers). Saluting requires a type of military organization that did not exist in most historical societies, an organization that performs dills and strictly enforces hierarchies with discipline, where as warrior bands would be looser. Hierarchy still exists (there is a war band leader after all, a chief), but its not as formalized and leaders don't exert the same type of control as they could in modern armies.

    I would say the Amazons should be depicted more like a militia, with lax hierarchies and as a result, no saluting.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

    "You can't make an omelet without breaking a few necks." - Wonder Woman, probably

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