Fate of "Prime Earth" (New 52) Superman Speculation

[manofsteel1979]

The main thing that confounds me is that DC Comics really has no interest in a "classic" Superman set up, and haven't really since the mid to late 2000's. I mean when was the last time we had reporter Clark Kent working alongside Jimmy, Lois and Perry and Superman defending Metropolis from his rogues gallery, and both sides of his identity interacting with his supporting cast? Yeah, we've had glimpses here and there over the last decade,but for the most part there are convolutions to make sure such a status quo isn't well, the status quo. In fact there hasn't really been a concrete status quo for Superman going on nearly a decade now. They tease it. Hint at it. Never really execute it.

It's why things like TRUTH failed miserably. Not because it's a bad idea,but TRUTH was something you do when you spend a few years of building up a character and his/her world and status quo. It's designed to tear all of that down to create drama and hopefully ultimately, a stronger status quo afterward. DC foolishly just assumed that the overall status quo people were familiar with in pop culture was enough to drive a story. They were wrong. They treated New 52 Superman like a new character on one hand,but didn't want to do any work to define who this "new" guy was and depended on the previous 70 years of who Superman was to fill in the blanks for the reader. They know they didn't want "same old same old" Superman anymore, so they rebooted him and changed his costume and his main love interest.....and stopped there without really wanting to do the work needed when you reboot a character like Superman. You can't just say "Here's Superman, gang! He's the same guy you always loved,but he really isn't because he's a new and improved Superman! We've made him better but we aren't going to go into any details or flesh out how different and better he is. He just is. We ditched the underwear and now he's with Wonder Woman! Care about him! He's still your dads Superman even though he isn't! Buy our comics!", Morrison and Solly Fisch tried, Greg Pak tried and even Lobdell sorta tried (in his own way) to fix the issue and solidly define this guy and the world around him,but it never gained traction. DC simply didn't care enough to do the hard work on Superman that was needed.

Which is why they are doing the cut and paste job here. A Superman with a ready made history to draw from so they don't have to define who he is and who everyone else is and why we should care. Someone already did that job for them. So stick him in the role and bam! Ready made Superman and all that implies.....Great right?

No. Not really. Because with this set up, he has no direct connection to a supporting cast (what little cast we've had that is), no direct connection to the main rogues (Lex, Zod...Doomsday, etc) or the DCU at large. Sure, his personality and years of experience SHOULD make for interesting reading in it's own right and the concept of a Superman with a Son is something that should have been done 10 years ago,but the set up as it looks now without any context to what exactly the nature of REBIRTH and what it means to the DCU continuity, negates any reason to bring all the history and mythos that Superdad inheriently is supposed to on paper bring with him,because as others have pointed out, this is still supposidly,the New 52 continuity and universe, so it really is pointless to have that history and backstory,because it can never have any bearing in the current continuity.

What that means is we are still with a Superman that can't be reporter Clark Kent at the Daily Planet with Lois, Perry and Jimmy or have meaningful relationships with the supporting cast, which I think is right up the current regime's alley. People clamoring for "their" Superman is going to be disappointed because the set up really is not going to yield the results they are looking for. Sure his costume looks better and they may like his slightly less abrasive personality and the fact he's with a Lois...but especially with the current editorial regime still in play, it's not going to be a hell of a lot different than what we have now, aside from the window dressing.

I keep going back and forth over all this. Sometimes I am excited...sometimes when I think of all I just wrote and I realize that it really at it's heart the same old song and dance and then I'm disgusted. I just don't know. I guess ultimately I'm neutral. I'm not angry or heartbroken at losing Nuperman because, to me, Nuperman died the moment Greg Pak was announced as leaving, thus any hope in this versions potential died with it...and looking at all of the last 5 years we aren't really losing all that much. I'd be fine with him returning and I think he will,but It's not a deal breaker on it's own. However I'm not convinced cutting and pasting one Superman for another is going to fix anything. I like the suit more and the more mature Superman has always appealed to me,but if he can't ultimately be classic Superman with the Daily Planet cast with him being Clark Kent, then he's not really THE Superman ...and then I wonder what the point is. Either way is a compromise that sacrifices one aspect of the classic Superman over another.


Maybe I just want the Bronze Age Superman too much these days. I've been reading a lot of that era lately and am enjoying it a hell of a lot more than nearly anything I've read Superman wise in the last 10 years. Is it too much just to have THAT guy back? Seriously, he was the perfect realization of what Superman can be.


My ultimate allegence is to good stories. Give me good stories and I can overlook a lot. There's a chance that may happen. I hope so.


Sorry for the long ramble. Perhaps Supercrab's style is rubbing off on me!

[Prime]

Just like in the awful BVS, Clark Kent can't exist.

[Kuwagaton]

Between this and an earlier post, I strongly agree with your thoughts on New 52 and your reaction to Truth, manofsteel.

I just happen to not need a classic status quo. I have no idea why they seem to think DP can't work in modern times, but it's easy enough to transition the core supporting cast. After they decide on a direction, I think having tomasi and jurgens is good for sheer consistency. I dunno if I'll ever say either guy blew me away, but I'm tired of crazy promise squandered by random flaws in execution. Transplanting an older version is a seriously disjointed idea but I also share the allegiance to good stories. Don't promise me that everything I know will change forever and my head will explode, just give me what it takes to keep me.

Personally, I've been reading a ton of post crisis lately, from 1994-2001. I like the idea of Clark Kent for foreign correspondence, but I'm also a huge bronze age fan and enjoy the news anchor set up as well.

[vasir12]

Good post, manofsteel. I agree with the concept of it, but what would be yours feelings if Nuperman came back? What if he never truly leaves? Then you look at Lois and Kara and how they'll be interacting with the common cast of Metropolis since they ARE from this world. Then, I would assume Kenan would give rise to new faces. (Whether any of them last or not, it another question).

Will Clark Kent go back to his traditional status quo? Who knows... will he have a consistent status quo at all? The signs point to... maybe. All this, however, really does ride on what happens to Clark Kent and I'm just not sure at this point.

[Prime]

To be honest, Kara and WW make Lois irrelevant in that department. Are they just trying to copy Marvel with the Lady Thor nonsense?

[vasir12]

To be honest, Kara and WW make Lois irrelevant in that department. Are they just trying to copy Marvel with the Lady Thor nonsense?

That depends on where the story goes. The solicits make it seem like she's doing some kinda investigation perhaps. That's not really something Kara or Diana do. As for the Thor thing... yeah, that's weird. Hopefully it'll play out differently (and better)

[Tayswift]

To be honest, Kara and WW make Lois irrelevant in that department. Are they just trying to copy Marvel with the Lady Thor nonsense?

wonder woman isn't a superman character, supergirl is a teenager...
clearly they took some inspiration on jane thor, but superwoman existed much before it

[SuperCrab]

The main thing that confounds me is that DC Comics really has no interest in a "classic" Superman set up, and haven't really since the mid to late 2000's. I mean when was the last time we had reporter Clark Kent working alongside Jimmy, Lois and Perry and Superman defending Metropolis from his rogues gallery, and both sides of his identity interacting with his supporting cast? Yeah, we've had glimpses here and there over the last decade,but for the most part there are convolutions to make sure such a status quo isn't well, the status quo. In fact there hasn't really been a concrete status quo for Superman going on nearly a decade now. They tease it. Hint at it. Never really execute it.

It's why things like TRUTH failed miserably. Not because it's a bad idea,but TRUTH was something you do when you spend a few years of building up a character and his/her world and status quo. It's designed to tear all of that down to create drama and hopefully ultimately, a stronger status quo afterward. DC foolishly just assumed that the overall status quo people were familiar with in pop culture was enough to drive a story. They were wrong. They treated New 52 Superman like a new character on one hand,but didn't want to do any work to define who this "new" guy was and depended on the previous 70 years of who Superman was to fill in the blanks for the reader. They know they didn't want "same old same old" Superman anymore, so they rebooted him and changed his costume and his main love interest.....and stopped there without really wanting to do the work needed when you reboot a character like Superman. You can't just say "Here's Superman, gang! He's the same guy you always loved,but he really isn't because he's a new and improved Superman! We've made him better but we aren't going to go into any details or flesh out how different and better he is. He just is. We ditched the underwear and now he's with Wonder Woman! Care about him! He's still your dads Superman even though he isn't! Buy our comics!", Morrison and Solly Fisch tried, Greg Pak tried and even Lobdell sorta tried (in his own way) to fix the issue and solidly define this guy and the world around him,but it never gained traction. DC simply didn't care enough to do the hard work on Superman that was needed.

Which is why they are doing the cut and paste job here. A Superman with a ready made history to draw from so they don't have to define who he is and who everyone else is and why we should care. Someone already did that job for them. So stick him in the role and bam! Ready made Superman and all that implies.....Great right?

No. Not really. Because with this set up, he has no direct connection to a supporting cast (what little cast we've had that is), no direct connection to the main rogues (Lex, Zod...Doomsday, etc) or the DCU at large. Sure, his personality and years of experience SHOULD make for interesting reading in it's own right and the concept of a Superman with a Son is something that should have been done 10 years ago,but the set up as it looks now without any context to what exactly the nature of REBIRTH and what it means to the DCU continuity, negates any reason to bring all the history and mythos that Superdad inheriently is supposed to on paper bring with him,because as others have pointed out, this is still supposidly,the New 52 continuity and universe, so it really is pointless to have that history and backstory,because it can never have any bearing in the current continuity.

What that means is we are still with a Superman that can't be reporter Clark Kent at the Daily Planet with Lois, Perry and Jimmy or have meaningful relationships with the supporting cast, which I think is right up the current regime's alley. People clamoring for "their" Superman is going to be disappointed because the set up really is not going to yield the results they are looking for.

Well written, and some very good points overall, though I might disagree with a few of the specifics here and there.

I think part of what spiked the sales of Superman #50 is the thought that, okay, we may finally get new52 Superman back with all his powers, and he'll be working at the Daily Planet with Perry, Lois, Jim, Cat, Steve, and so on and so forth. And part of that dynamic is usually Clark as a single guy, despite being Superman, who has trouble asking out the woman he really likes, Lois when he's really himself as Clark behind the glasses, and Lois, who won't give Clark the time of day in a romantic sense because she loves Superman, and of course they date other people while this is getting "sorted out" and then maybe ultimately date but there are roadblocks or break ups or whatever as time passes. We didn't get that.

So, they parachute SuperDad in. In theory, bringing back third Superman instead of the fourth seems like it *should* be a return to the classic Superman, but it's not. As mentioned in your post, this SuperDad guy is not of this universe, he doesn't know any of the familiar cast and villains, and he's at least initially not going to step in and be Clark Kent or work for the Daily Planet at all. Plus, the marriage is a slight change from the traditional setup, and having a superhero 10-year old son with a big focus on him is a HUGE change from the traditional setup.

So, we're not really getting the classic Superman stuff either way.

I mean, certainly, in the times in which we live, maybe the Daily Planet could be a blog startup company, and that might be close enough. They could think about the new52 Superman's secret identity staying out there and him writing stories from home over the Internet because of his fame and teleconferencing and hanging out at a bar with all of his friends from the planet *regularly* (Sort of a Cheers from the Cheer sitcom or a Central Perk from the Friends sitcom type of scenario), maybe a place where the barkeeper (Who could be his own character) agrees to keep gawkers away from him, but where a few people who are "cool" can join the gang gradually. There could even be a Norm barfly type to add an every man's perspective to the conversations, who is a blue collar guy and sort of got into the group because he just sat there and drank and didn't try to get Superman's autograph or something and just treated him like a regular guy. Lee, the African-American firefighter, could hang out there, too. That way you get the Daily Planet cast and add in a few new faces without going to much trouble.

There's room for moderization. I like the more modern attitude new52 Clark sometimes had. He could love Wonder Woman and Lois could be his friend. I like the high collar and armor, I think they are changes without being overboard, Superman's costume has always evolved over the years.

However, ultimately, you're right, Truth presented us a really alternate view of Superman, and Superdad is going to present us with a really alternate view of Superman. Both go beyond modernizing the setup slightly and into really major changes. And, yeah, there is room in a publisher as big as DC Comics to make really major changes in a book or two or two or whatever, but why are we limited to always one vision of Superman who is never really all that similar to the Superman myth- and they can be shifted really far from one extreme to the other, as long as it isn't actually what you'd expect to read?

I mean, really, I would consider the slightly modernized setup I suggested for new52 Superman. And then you could publish a different universe book set in the 50s with a Man Men type aesthetic written for adults but with the classic Superman tropes like phone booths, fedoras, a print and ink newspaper, cigar chomping, etc.. And then you could publish SuperDad, or SuperBoy with Jon, I guess (And SuperDad as a part of Jon's cast), though I wouldn't buy it personally, in his universe with Jon as a more important focus. And you could do a totally different thing as another on-going where you try for dramatically different.

I mean, seriously, they put out 36 books each month, more than that because some are printed twice monthly, and there's not room for one new52 Superman book? There's not room for one Mad Men quasi-traditional Superman setup with more adult storylines and characterizations? Like, they really seem intent on presenting one Superman stretching over a ton of books, instead of several with their own books. Your readers understand the concept of alternate universes and duplicates. They've been a major part of the publishing line- in fact you relied on them understanding to do the new52 to begin with, and you are relying on their understanding to have them get who SuperDad is, and you're probably relying on that understanding really, really heavily with Rebirth. And I like alternate universes- so why don't you use them to their full potential and give everyone a Superman he or she wants?

And, you know, it's not like having several Superman would be unprecedented. DC Comics of course has done it before themselves for short stretches, but maybe more significantly Marvel has several different Spidermen running around. There's Peter Parker, there's that Hispanic kid who's name I forget, and there may be more. And Marvel's sales are doing pretty well, aren't they?

[Kuwagaton]

To be honest, Kara and WW make Lois irrelevant in that department. Are they just trying to copy Marvel with the Lady Thor nonsense?

I don't get it, they are all completely different.

[Tayswift]

I think part of what spiked the sales of Superman #50 is the thought that, okay, we may finally get new52 Superman back with all his powers, and he'll be working at the Daily Planet with Perry, Lois, Jim, Cat, Steve, and so on and so forth.

no, it wasn't. variant covers did the spike on sales

Lois when he's really himself as Clark behind the glasses, and Lois, who won't give Clark the time of day in a romantic sense because she loves Superman, and of course they date other people while this is getting "sorted out" and then maybe ultimately date but there are roadblocks or break ups or whatever as time passes.

IDK what comics you read, but this is not true in any way. even on new 52 she was a lot interested on Clark and not much on superman, and it was clark that ran away from her

[Beorg]

And, you know, it's not like having several Superman would be unprecedented. DC Comics of course has done it before themselves for short stretches, but maybe more significantly Marvel has several different Spidermen running around. There's Peter Parker, there's that Hispanic kid who's name I forget, and there may be more. And Marvel's sales are doing pretty well, aren't they?

There's the Chinese knock-off Superman comic at least.

[cxranger]

Whatever happens (and I say this as someone that's not exactly a fan of New 52 Superman), I'm just hoping the resolution for this doesn't involve any character's death. I see a lot of clamoring for that to be the eventual end for the post-Crisis incarnations, and it just smacks of either unoriginality or vindictiveness. Return them to their own world eventually, have them retire, whatever. Do the pass-the-torch thing or set it up like the old Earth-1/Earth-2, even. There are other ways to write out characters than killing them. That's becoming a really overused trope. It was a stupid thing to do to Kal-L, and it would be stupid to do to either of these two incarnations.

Completely agree. I would like to see multiple Supermen around. Old school in "Action" and nuSchool in "Superman" would work.

I still hate what DC did to Kal-L. I hope they don't kill off any Superman. Make their uniforms distinctive, and go and tell great stories. There is no mandate to have only one - we can figure out that there are more than one saving the day. Heck, bring back "Adventure" or Superman Family" and put Kal-L in the lead as the elder statesman.

[Sacred Knight]

What I would do when all is said and done is bring back Adventures of Superman, and give that to Superdad and the family, whom operate on the west coast still living in California. Also have him a feature on the new JSA team. That's two titles there. New 52 Superman has Action Comics and Superman again. And he's back with the Justice League, if not right away, eventually.

[Tayswift]

I'm pretty sure JSA will happen on a rebooted earth.

2 supermen would only get more problems than solutions.

[Sacred Knight]

That would be nice, then if so Superdad could migrate there. That said though I still don't think that's the direction they want to go. I think they want the classic JSA on the main Earth for some reason. I think there's already been rumors of them going the "forgotten memories" route like with the Titans. And if so I'd bet the farm we'll see the JSA/Superman Blue JLA/Superman Red set up.

If they decide to achieve that set up utilizing another Earth though, all the better. There will be two Supermen though featured, either way. At least until they get tired of the idea a few years down the road or so and retire Superdad.