Superman pre-New 52 as the one Man of Steel?

[TooFlyToFail]

You mean, keeping himself hidden while the Earth faced world-destroying (and worse) threats? That kind of stuff that he was doing?

Some people (and I'm not particularly talking about you) seem to want the personalities of the characters to be decoupled from the characters' experiences, history, and actions. "I like a character that's pro-active, and he seems to be in the few stories we've seen him in, so I don't care now non-pro-active he's been for the eight years we didn't see him." "I want a Superman who is more mature and has leadership capabilities, but I don't want to see him develop those over time as part of his character - just swap in a copy from another timeline, or merge him with a more leaderly version, or let him gain the extra memories of a Superman who has already had that character development."

I prefer a Superman who was born and raised in the primary DCU where the stories are taking place, and whose characteristics are based on his history and experiences, and change over time as he has new adventures (character development).

But that's just me.

Why DCEU Supes is having a tough time (besides Snyder being not a good match for him).

[GlennSimpson]

What DC did five years ago was start a (mostly) new universe, and that universe had a new Superman in it.

If DC decided to replace that new Superman with the previous one, that's not the same thing as before. Most likely, in the post-Flashpoint universe, the new52 would have still existed at one time, but will have gone away. I doubt they would retroactively change the last five years to have been the pre-Flashpoint Superman somehow.

[DieHard200904]

Very well said!
The fact that they might be bending over backwards to make the comics MORE like that new turd of a film - which seems to be made by people who wholeheartedly believe that Superman is boring and needs fixing - is infuriating.

How whipped is DC Comics relative to Warner Bros? That's the question I am asking now. Because it feels like DC Comics let's themselves get pushed around a little too much by WB.

[Myskin]

I don't think there's some crazy conspiracy behind it. I don't think there's actually much thought behind it whatsoever.

I think they feel at this time, New 52 Superman is irrevocably damaged, especially after TRUTH. I don't think DC feels there's a way to fix him that makes pre-Flashpoint fans and post-Flashpoint fans happy. So what they're going to try and do is take the classic version with all the history, and place him in New 52's universe, in an attempt to please both sides of the spectrum. I think this is fueled in part to the positive reaction fans and critics have had towards Lois & Clark. It won't work, but to be fair nothing they've tried with the character since NEW KRYPTON has worked, at least consistently. And even then you'd probably have to go back to the Loeb/Kelly run to find consistently good Superman stories.

To be fair, I don't believe this is something necessarily exclusive with Superman. It sounds like there's going to be some "fixing" of sorts with Wonder Woman and the Teen Titans. Really outside of Batman their post-Flashpoint sales are quickly dwindling.

I agree.
I think that we are overestimating the influence of the film division on comic books, and the references to the Death of Superman. DC simply saw that Lois and Clark was rather well-received (on this forum, too) and - since Truth was coming to an end anyway - they put Lois and Clark writer on it. Nothing less, nothing more.

Also: we shouldn't forget that the current management wants more bi-weekly comics and Jurgens is one of the few creators who is able to manage bi-weekly books.

[manofsteel1979]

I agree.
I think that we are overestimating the influence of the film division on comic books, and the references to the Death of Superman. DC simply saw that Lois and Clark was rather well-received (on this forum, too) and - since Truth was coming to an end anyway - they put Lois and Clark writer on it. Nothing less, nothing more.

Also: we shouldn't forget that the current management wants more bi-weekly comics and Jurgens is one of the few creators who is able to manage bi-weekly books.

Maybe Jurgens stipulated that if he were to write ACTION biweekly, it would be his Superman and DC just went along with it because they don't care either way.

[Myskin]

Maybe Jurgens stipulated that if he were to write ACTION biweekly, it would be his Superman and DC just went along with it because they don't care either way.

I don't think that Jurgens has such a strong contractual power to impose his own version of Superman as the only one. He's just a reliable employee, like Keith Giffen and JT Krul.

[zsizzle]

Seriously...Why Jurgens???

Does Jurgens have any work worth reading? I like the superman character but haven't loved too many stories I have read. Started reading comics with new 52 and loved grant Morrison on action comics (but did not like much of the superman books I read by Lobdell). Also read birthright, all star superman, superman red son, and some of Geoff johns pre new 52 superman stuff (which I really liked). Thought I'd try out action again since the thought of superman being married to Lois sounds interesting (especially since all I've known is him dating Wonder Woman). I'd like to see some past stuff that shows this relationship well if anyone has suggestions.

[Tayswift]

Does Jurgens have any work worth reading? I like the superman character but haven't loved too many stories I have read. Started reading comics with new 52 and loved grant Morrison on action comics (but did not like much of the superman books I read by Lobdell). Also read birthright, all star superman, superman red son, and some of Geoff johns pre new 52 superman stuff (which I really liked). Thought I'd try out action again since the thought of superman being married to Lois sounds interesting (especially since all I've known is him dating Wonder Woman). I'd like to see some past stuff that shows this relationship well if anyone has suggestions.

I think that death of superman and the wedding special that got a recent reprint are good ones to start

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Does Jurgens have any work worth reading?

Oh, good lord no. He is the generic brand you buy because the real stuff is too expensive of comics.

[The Nuke]

What DC did five years ago was start a (mostly) new universe, and that universe had a new Superman in it.

If DC decided to replace that new Superman with the previous one, that's not the same thing as before. Most likely, in the post-Flashpoint universe, the new52 would have still existed at one time, but will have gone away. I doubt they would retroactively change the last five years to have been the pre-Flashpoint Superman somehow.

Not accurate. When the NU52 started the NU52 world was just the Pre52 world with a warped timeline because of what Flash did in Flashpoint. All the characters were the same, just different.

From 2011 to 2015, the Superman you were reading about in the NU52 was Pre52 Superman with a trimmed timeline with altnerate events.

Only when Convergence came along was this retconned.

[GlennSimpson]

Not accurate. When the NU52 started the NU52 world was just the Pre52 world with a warped timeline because of what Flash did in Flashpoint. All the characters were the same, just different.

From 2011 to 2015, the Superman you were reading about in the NU52 was Pre52 Superman with a trimmed timeline with altnerate events.

Only when Convergence came along was this retconned.

Um, no, the only pre-Flashpoint things in the new52 were things specifically referenced. Everything else was a blank.

[The Nuke]

Um, no, the only pre-Flashpoint things in the new52 were things specifically referenced. Everything else was a blank.

You're wrong. The NU52 was never a full restart. The story being that Flash changed history in Flashpoint. He didn't create a new world, instead he caused one to change considerably. The Pre52 World evolved into the NU52 World.

The characters were supposed to be all the same pre52 versions, but now with new and fresh timelines.

They were not completely new.

[The Darknight Detective]

I see your Pre-FLASHPOINT, and raise you a Pre-COIE.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Yeah, pre-Flashpoint doesn't cut it as defining which Supes we're talking about. Heck, pre-COIE isn't a perfect term, either.

[Lairston]

Does Jurgens have any work worth reading?

Yes. His earlier work with Superman is great. He was working on Superman with Roger Stern, Jerry Ordway, and others I can't remember off the top of my head in the early 90s when Superman and his other books were the best books I was getting. Mike Carlin was the editor then and I'd say when Carlin left was when the Superman books really began their plummet in quality.

However Jurgens was also involved with the horrible Superman Red/Superman Blue fiasco if I remember right.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

My .02 cents:

1) They simply don't know what to do with the character.
2) Since Lois and Clark are the most established couple, they're going that route and even giving them a son to see, like someone else said, "how do you like it".
3) I am a declared fan of SMWW, and I wanted this couple to prosper. They didn't even try after a while. They simply didn't have the guts to keep it going, even though there are lots of SMWW fans, and that book had healthy sales numbers.
4) Truth had an interesting premise, built on a disastrous base (depowering Supes, a "device" that has been used to death). And this, again, harks back to point number 1 on this list, which translates into the stupid excuse of "but-but MOM! It's just that he's too powerful! He CAN'T be interesting! There's nothing that can challenge him!" (bulls**t).

I am incredibly frustrated by this move. I'll check out that rebirth special. But most certainly I'll be out after reading it. Pete Tomasi's tweet is something to kinda hold on to, but still not enough for me.