The True Superman Arrives, Batman Faces Competition & More in DC Comics' June Releases

[AlexanderLuthor]

Even before Rebirth they pretty much ignored the RHatO stuff and went back the pre-Flashpoint dynamics with the likes of Starfire.

To be fair, whether it is Superman, Teen Titans, RHatO or otherwise people pretty much ignore everything Lobdell does. I still maintain he has leverage over someone to still get work at DC

[JasonTodd428]

Ok. I remember hating RH&TO after a few issues, so Im probably not missing much. I'd rather read the Palmiotti/Conner Starfire series, that looks like a lot of fun! And it has Dick Grayson in place of Jason Todd, definitely an upgrade!

And I hated Palmiotti/Conner's Starfire after a few pages of issue #1. I was really hoping for a more balanced portrayal of her character there after the initial problems with her character in RH. Instead what I got was an overly naïve alien girl who for some inexplicable reason suddenly was acting as if she's never been around people or even on Earth before. I'd have accepted it if this was literally her first time on Earth and this book was just reintroducing her into the current continuity but that was not the case and so this whole thing rang falsely to me. I'd hardly call that and upgrade.

[Atlanta96]

To be fair, whether it is Superman, Teen Titans, RHatO or otherwise people pretty much ignore everything Lobdell does. I still maintain he has leverage over someone to still get work at DC

Agreed. To continue working at DC (even on a single book) Lobdell must have either serious leverage over someone, or he's making someone very, very happy! At least his only book at the moment is a negligible one.

[Doctor Bifrost]

I am a little confused on what exactly takes precedence in certain situations. Like for example in the New 52 Dick never went off into space with Starfire and helped her with her family problems (basically that whole NTT story) and in the New 52 it was Jason and Roy that went off into space with her to help her and deal with her family problems. Now they are apparently bringing in some pre-Flashpoint elements and dynamics, but which version of this story happened? Was it the pre or post Flashpoint version? Those are things that I'm going to be confused about I think coming out of Rebirth.

Hey, hey, Story Over Continuity! Which means you're not supposed to ask. Or think about it.

(I've always preferred stories, and fictional settings, that could stand up to a good deal of thinking about. But they've basically told me they're not writing for the likes of me these days.)

[Atlanta96]

And I hated Palmiotti/Conner's Starfire after a few pages of issue #1. I was really hoping for a more balanced portrayal of her character there after the initial problems with her character in RH. Instead what I got was an overly naïve alien girl who for some inexplicable reason suddenly was acting as if she's never been around people or even on Earth before. I'd have accepted it if this was literally her first time on Earth and this book was just reintroducing her into the current continuity but that was not the case and so this whole thing rang falsely to me. I'd hardly call that and upgrade.

Sounds like Teen Titans cartoon Starfire. I like that portrayal, so the inconsistency doesn't really bother me. If anything, the fact that they ignore her previous New 52 stuff makes me more interested! Then again, I don't mind ignoring or rewriting established continuity for story purposes, and many fans may disagree with that.

[AlexanderLuthor]

Hey, hey, Story Over Continuity! Which means you're not supposed to ask. Or think about it.

(I've always preferred stories, and fictional settings, that could stand up to a good deal of thinking about. But they've basically told me they're not writing for the likes of me these days.)

And thus the reason the DCYou didn't last a year. Completely predictable given the audience who actually buys comic books and doesn't just professionally gripe about them

[Dataweaver]

See, I just don't know the difference between:

(1) "These characters have new histories, new memories, their relationships are different, their personalities are different, some well-known, long-term characters have vanished from existence, and the history of the world they live in is different. But it's the same universe and the same characters!"

- and -

(2) "These characters have new histories, new memories, their relationships are different, their personalities are different, some well-known, long-term characters have vanished from existence, and the history of the world they live in is different. They are different characters who resemble the previous characters in some but not all ways, living in a different universe that resembles the previous universe in some but not all ways!"

The only difference I see is whether or not the previous iteration can ever coexist with the current iteration. (1) implies that they can't, because that set of histories, memories, relationships, and personalities got overwritten when the current set of histories, memories, relationships, and personalities was established — so the only way to get the earlier iteration back would be to undo those rewrites. The upside is that you retain a sense of continuity. By contrast, (2) avoids the mutual exclusiveness, allowing for stories where the two iterations meet, but at the cost of losing that sense of continuity.

Another difference is in how you view time. (1) assumes that time is linear and unique: there is only one timeline, and so there can only be one reality. (2) implies either that there are multiple timelines existing in parallel, or that time is more of a branching tree of possibilities: Hypertime. My own preference is the latter.

Confession time: I used to think in terms of (1) throughout the post-Crisis period. But with Infinite Crisis, my perspective shifted and I've favored (2) ever since. The aforementioned “sense of continuity” that I mentioned above pales in significane in comparison with the greater flexibility and lack of strife afforded in viewing them as separate characters. For one thing, I can look at the new52 Wally West without always drawing comparisons between him and classic Wally. If they're two different characters, I can easily consider each on his own merits; if they're the same character, there's always the notion that who he used to be had to be utterly destroyed to make way for who he is now — and as such, any history, memories, relationships or personality traits of the prior iteration that I liked and the current iteration lacks tends to become a condemnation of the current iteration — and vice versa.

I mean, I have some idea why TPTB said that. They think it gives them some kind of bragging rights, or a marketing advantage of saying "see, they're the same characters that you were following before!" And they also get to say "it's not a reboot!", because they think that word is bad PR. But that just sounds fake to me, which may be why I prefer (2) over (1). And functionally, narratively - from the point of view of the readers and the characters (and, really, the writers) - it simply doesn't make any difference.

It can make a difference, in certain rare circumstances. Infinite Crisis was one such case, where Alex collected various metahumans based on which Earths their prior iterations had resided.

[JasonTodd428]

Sounds like Teen Titans cartoon Starfire. I like that portrayal, so the inconsistency doesn't really bother me. If anything, the fact that they ignore her previous New 52 stuff makes me more interested! Then again, I don't mind ignoring or rewriting established continuity for story purposes, and many fans may disagree with that.

That's pretty much what it is so you probably will like it. As for me I couldn't stand it in the TT cartoon version of her either so I didn't care for it. What bothered me most is not that they wanted to ignore her previous stuff in the N52 but that they seemingly wanted to push her naivety to the nth degree as if that was her most important characteristic and I don't agree with that idea at all. Over the years she's grown into a complex and multifaceted character and I felt that they swept that to the side by highlighting her naïve nature in much the same way her sexual nature was highlighted initially in RH. In my opinion two wrongs don't make a right and one is just as bad as the other. Hopefully, her portrayal in Teen Titan's Rebirth will be more balanced and less focused on either of those two traits.

[edwardsdv]

Amazingly, Lobdell's books still sell pretty well.

[RobinFan4880]

Amazingly, Lobdell's books still sell pretty well.

Red Hood really suits Lobdell's voice. The comic is not stellar or amazing but it is predictably ok. It is a safe bet, especially if you like lobdell's writing style.

[Doctor Bifrost]

I don't mean to be nitpicking. I just think it's interesting the way different people view these things. So....

The only difference I see is whether or not the previous iteration can ever coexist with the current iteration. (1) implies that they can't, because that set of histories, memories, relationships, and personalities got overwritten when the current set of histories, memories, relationships, and personalities was established — so the only way to get the earlier iteration back would be to undo those rewrites.

Or to say that there's another universe out there which is very similar to, or identical to, the one that was morphed into the new one. Which any writer could say.

The upside is that you retain a sense of continuity.

See, here's where I disagree. I think it's just a pretend sense of continuity, with none of the actual features that make continuity useful or interesting. "Hey, we've set up a situation where we can include or exclude any character or event that existed pre-FP, without having to give any in-story explanation. But we're retaining a sense of continuity!" That does nothing for me. In fact, I think it's less respectful of the previous continuity and its characters to overwrite them like that, rather than just present alternatives.

Another difference is in how you view time. (1) assumes that time is linear and unique: there is only one timeline, and so there can only be one reality. (2) implies either that there are multiple timelines existing in parallel, or that time is more of a branching tree of possibilities: Hypertime. My own preference is the latter.

But you can always say that, due to Flash's particular and specific antics, the previous continuity and characters were morphed into the new ones, but none the less, there are also other universes out there, and universes can branch off from each other (if history is changed using a different method than Flash used). The two different ways of getting a new history aren't really mutually exclusive, and both can occur within the same multiverse - if the rules of the multiverse allow.

It can make a difference, in certain rare circumstances. Infinite Crisis was one such case, where Alex collected various metahumans based on which Earths their prior iterations had resided.

That I can see. To somebody who is somehow "outside" the process and all the timelines, it would look different.

Thanks for the conversation.

[finfan]

Superman: Lois and Clark is the best DC comic I've read in a long time

Ditto! Looking forward to Action Comics post-rebirth!

[Lee Stone]

Ditto! Looking forward to Action Comics post-rebirth!

We can probably look forward to a new Action #1 and Detective #1 shortly after they hit #1000.

Didn't Adventure and Wonder Woman take on their original numberings shortly before New52 hit?