The True Superman Arrives, Batman Faces Competition & More in DC Comics' June Releases

[t hedge coke]

52 Superman.. who was younger, and they actively isolated him from Lois and family to make him a loner...

When was he a loner? Ever?

And, does "isolated from Lois and family" mean, "hanging out with friends and his significant other and people from his hometown?"

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

woah what is this?!?!?!

this is some weird retcon. So Superman was there and didn't step in to save lives?

That's from Lois & Clark #1.

Yes, it's pretty weird. Superman witnessed the Justice League fighting Darkseid and didn't help them in any way.

We don't know at what point he got to the fight

He was there long enough to have been able to step in during the final phase of the battle against Darkseid, at the least. He had to have been on the planet before the attack started as he returned to a home he and Lois had recently found. He didn't help the Leauge fight Darkseid, and didn't even help anyone during the Parademon attacks.

It's a lousy retcon, and one that could have easily been fixed. Either he was helping in secret, or his just as he was about to help someone his power fluctuations began and he was unable to. The comic heavily suggests that Pre-Flashpoint didn't help, not because he arrived too late or was unable to, but because he didn't want to risk exposing his existence.

[Wally West]

So let me see if I got this straight. Their solution to problems with 52 Superman.. who was younger, and they actively isolated him from Lois and family to make him a loner... is to replace him with pre flashpoint Superman who they made even older, still married an now raising a child. Polar opposite.. Because Superman with a son went over so, so well in Superman Returns... Once again a knee jerk reaction to the success of the Lois and Clark series and not really stopping to consider that people aren't reading that series for it's making Superman a family man, more so than simple dissatisfaction with the 52 version; Who we care about so little, many people just pined for the nostalgia of a better written character with a preserved history.. I know John's is smarter than this (and Lee should be but appears not to be) .. so I just can't fathom how these ideas get any real traction..

He's really not that much older though. He's in his late 30s/early 40s. Which IMO is the age Superman should always be anyway. He's only like 10 years older than New 52 Supes.

[Grayskull Guardian]

If there is one thing we can all agree on it is that insisting that the Lois and Clark from Convergence take over the main titles is among the stupidest ideas they have EVER had.

I still think that would be New 52 Raven's feather mask.

[Grayskull Guardian]

Also, before people start cheering/lamenting the passing of New 52 Superman, maybe you should check out the solicit for Action Comics??? Remember how they debuted two different Superman costumes (one with red boots, the other with blue boots) at the Rebirth panel. Obviously the one with blue boots is the New 52 Superman. Well, guess which costume is on the Action Comics cover. And the "new Clark Kent" referred to in the solicit is referring to the Pre-FP Superman. So, Post-Crisis Supes gets Superman while New 52 Supes gets Action Comics.

Here's some images of the costumes for reference. The top one is N52 Supes. The bottom is Post-Crisis Supes.

If that's true, would it really have hurt to give him his red "trunks"?

[Ropeburn]

If that's true, would it really have hurt to give him his red "trunks"?

Excellent Point. The Pre-FP Superman should be wearing his old red trunks! Because that's part of the "baggage" he would bring to the Nu52. If DC is going to retro someone, then at least have the courtesy to do it correctly. And eventually give him a new costume befitting the Nu52...y'know, after you kill the Kal-El people have been buying for the last five years.

[Truman Burbank]

Also, before people start cheering/lamenting the passing of New 52 Superman, maybe you should check out the solicit for Action Comics??? Remember how they debuted two different Superman costumes (one with red boots, the other with blue boots) at the Rebirth panel. Obviously the one with blue boots is the New 52 Superman. Well, guess which costume is on the Action Comics cover. And the "new Clark Kent" referred to in the solicit is referring to the Pre-FP Superman. So, Post-Crisis Supes gets Superman while New 52 Supes gets Action Comics.

Here's some images of the costumes for reference. The top one is N52 Supes. The bottom is Post-Crisis Supes.

Nope. Jurgens specifically said Action Comics will feature the Superman of the Lois and Clark book with his family. Gleason tweeted later that the red-boot version is from work on the redesign and was created before final changes were made. It's concept art that they decided to use as a cover.

[sax]

Yeah. Really disagree with that. IMO, married-to-Lois Superman is better than bachelor Superman. But I do agree that this decision is very problematic. I'm gonna reserve judgment until the actual books come out, but it would have been a far better decision for Rebirth to simply MERGE the timelines together. Instead of two Supermen running around, just have one who has the memories and history of both. In fact, just do that for ALL the characters.

Yeah, married to Lois Supes would be my preference, as well.

As for the rest, time will tell.

[Tayswift]

For one, everybody hating on Superdad(A.K.A Pre52 Superman) need to understand that for 4 years you were reading about Pre52 Superman. The NU52 Superman was just the pre52 Superman with an alternate backstory because of what happened in Flashpoint. It wasn't until Convergence that they retconned this. Which was stupid in hindsight.

Also Superdad has no World to go back to, since the NU52 Earth is the Pre52 Earth. The Pre52 Earth Evolved into the Nu52 Earth. There is no confirmed Pre52 World.

they could retcon this, But I guess DC doesn't want it to happen. they want to keep new 52 earth and then go forward with it, a prenew52 earth would open a can of worms.
who knows what can happen if rebirth fails

[NeonZ]

I also asked in the Superman boards, but I'll paste here as well in case anyone has answers!

I'm a longtime Supes fan, and read the books religiously back in the day (early 90s to early 00s) but haven't read the books regularly in years. I did pick up the first few issues of the N52 era but then stopped after a couple months. So let me get this straight:

Dan Jurgens is back as writer.
Action has returned to its classic numbering.
The classic, pre-flashpoint, Superman has returned and is now the Superman in the current DCU.
The classic pre-FP Superman is now married to Lois with a kid, Jon.

In theory, this all sounds pretty cool to an older fan like me! But I've got questions galore!

Can someone tell me exactly where did this pre-FP Superman & Lois came from? This has something to do with the Convergence crossover, right?
Assuming I wanted to pick up the Lois & Clark story where they get married, have the kid, and get introduced to the current DCU where do I start with collected editions?
The new 52 Superman, the one that was powerless and running around in an t-shirt and jeans, and outed as Clark Kent by Lois until a month or so back, is no longer around?
Is the N52 Lois around? Does she know about the older, classic pre-FP Lois?

Clark and Lois married in the 90s, way before the Flashpoint reboot. Their kid was born in Convergence: Superman #2 (A tie in to the Convergence event, there were only #1 and #2). After that he appears in the final couple of issues of the main Convergence series. And from there it's Superman: Lois & Clark, which shows them arriving in the current New 52 world.

I doubt any of that will be relevant going forward though. I'd guess by the time Rebirth ends there'll be some continuity change where everyone will act like he was always there as the New 52's Superman.

For one, everybody hating on Superdad(A.K.A Pre52 Superman) need to understand that for 4 years you were reading about Pre52 Superman. The NU52 Superman was just the pre52 Superman with an alternate backstory because of what happened in Flashpoint. It wasn't until Convergence that they retconned this. Which was stupid in hindsight.

Also Superdad has no World to go back to, since the NU52 Earth is the Pre52 Earth. The Pre52 Earth Evolved into the Nu52 Earth. There is no confirmed Pre52 World.

Technically, they stopped Crisis on Infinite Earths from happening at the end of Convergence. So, he has no world because his unified One Earth was never created in the first place.

That's...not technically correct. Kal-L of original Earth-Two Krypton is not the original Golden Age Superman that Siegel and Shuster created appearing in Action Comics #1. He shares those stories, he looks like him. But they're not the same guy.

Kal-L is the Action Comics #1 Superman. The actual differences between Earth-2 and published Golden Age only really start later. Kal-L is basically a Golden Age Superman where later retcons are always ignored - so, he sticks with the first revealed names of his parents, or the newspaper, even though those names would be eventually changed during the Golden Age itself.

Where the distinction is made is the Silver Age. We all know that the Silver Age is pretty much marked by the Justice League, science-based superhero comics. Batman and Superman still had titles published in between both ages for about ten years. The Superman and Batman that meets Barry and Hal are the same Superman and Batman since AC#1 and 'Tec 27. Those stories happened to E-1 Supes and Batman for years until they told us that they didn't - Flash of Two Worlds/JLA meeting JSA, etc. Once we had an E-2 in concept, those stories got lifted and transplanted onto the E-2 Supes and Batman...except there wasn't a Crisis event or anything saying that they did not happen for sure to Silver Age/Pre-Crisis Batman and Supes. Then there's Aquaman, Green Arrow and Wonder Woman. The Bronze Age/70s with WGBS Clark still didn't distinguish that those things didn't happen to him too. Essentially, Kal-L, despite the JSA/Infinity Inc. and other E2 concepts didn't "become" original Superman until certain interactions between S&B with WW, Aquaman, GA and the two pairs of Hawkman/Hawkgirl made it impossible and cleared up in Crisis.

Even though there was no Crisis, there was a point where the published Superman, due to the various changes to his character and past added through the years was basically incompatible with those early Golden Age stories, making him basically a separate character even before they formally acknowledged an Earth-2 Superman. There were also post-Superboy Golden Age stories that ignored his past as Superboy, showing that there was already an unspoken division going on.

[GlennSimpson]

I'm still holding on to the possibility that pre-Flashpoint Superman goes away and new52 takes in Jon to raise.

[Tayswift]

Clark and Lois married in the 90s, way before the Flashpoint reboot. Their kid was born in Convergence: Superman #2 (A tie in to the Convergence event, there were only #1 and #2). After that he appears in the final couple of issues of the main Convergence series. And from there it's Superman: Lois & Clark, which shows them arriving in the current New 52 world.

I doubt any of that will be relevant going forward though. I'd guess by the time Rebirth ends there'll be some continuity change where everyone will act like he was always there as the New 52's Superman.

this could be a slap on people collecting new 52, but I can't discard this retcon.

Technically, they stopped the original Crisis from happening. So, he has no world because his unified One Earth was never created in the first place.

interesting detail

[Potanical Pardon]

I know everyone has their favorite versions of characters and we're never going to be all happy, but I'm really hoping the reason they warned to read DC Rebirth before either Flash Rebirth or Titans Rebirth is because the pre flashpoint Wally West is back and brought pre flashpoint Impulse, Max Mercury, Jesse Quick with him. I'm enjoying this new Wally West on TV but in the comics not having his past with Nightwing, the Titans and his family really takes away from what I loved about the character.
Other than that I'm really looking forward to seeing if Jurgens can keep me interested in Superman again especially if he can make Steel feel more like his old self, & I'm already enjoying most of the Bat titles but hopefully it will refocus on the core bat characters and not have every man and his dog becoming either a Batman or Robin around the world.
Also 90's Ray, Starman, Superboy & Darkstars would rope me back in for life.

You and me...we can be friends.

[PyroTwilight]

Well Convergence is its own odd mess. Technically stopping the Crisis would utterly wipe out well, EVERYTHING. Since this current universe is still all, however indirectly, created in part by events that started in COIE.

So I think it's something of a hypertime like answer. The pre-Crisis. Post Crisis universe's etc... all exist in their own multiverses they're just very hard to get to.

The Superman from Lois and Clark believes his universe is gone but I assume it isn't.

[Grayskull Guardian]

Nope. Jurgens specifically said Action Comics will feature the Superman of the Lois and Clark book with his family. Gleason tweeted later that the red-boot version is from work on the redesign and was created before final changes were made. It's concept art that they decided to use as a cover.

So MOS has a more faithful costume to the traditional Supes costume than the Pre-Flashpoint Superman after Rebirth? That's sad.