Bringing back Golden Age Superman

[NeonZ]

Superman going from leaping to maintaining flight, the Daily Star to the Daily Planet, George Taylor to Perry White, the bow-tied office boys name revealed as Jimmy, Luthor from red haired to bald - all appeared in the early Golden Age Superman comics by Jerry Siegel.

That's the point. But those changes generally didn't have a reason in the story themselves. There's no story where "George Taylor" leaves the Planet and is replaced by Perry White, the character's name just changed through those early stories. Same goes to flight - you can get the point where he starts leaping in mid-air, but there isn't a story focusing on how he gained that new ability.

[Steven Ely]

That's the point. But those changes generally didn't have a reason in the story themselves. There's no story where "George Taylor" leaves the Planet and is replaced by Perry White, the character's name just changed through those early stories. Same goes to flight - you can get the point where he starts leaping in mid-air, but there isn't a story focusing on how he gained that new ability.

Well, that's what a new series could explain. Why didn't Jerry Siegel explain in a story focusing on how the Daily Star became the Daily Planet, etc.? There is a tendency to overanalyze today. Was flying leaps a new ability or somersaults in mid-air a new power? He seemed to be simply gradually learning to fly and eventually perfecting it, is how I see it reading the stories. The Daily Star renamed to Planet. Renamed newspaper. But why? Likely because it made a better brand logo. Or a writer could have a story about Jimmy Olsen transformed into a giant superpowered termite that ate the Daily Star building for lunch, but that wouldn't be Siegel style. George Taylor and Perry White were pretty clearly the same guy with just a different name. So why the different name? The in-story reason could be that George Taylor was Perry White's pseudonym. As simple and direct as that. Or a writer could come up with a complicated clone DNA Project explanation, involving the DNAliens, etc. in a big cosmic story, but that would be Jack Kirby style, not Jerry Siegel style.

[Jim Kelly]

It's more satisfying to me to come up with my own explanation for why these gradual changes were made rather than going with the solution that Earth-Two imposed on us.

Each one of these alterations occurred on a different date. In fact, it's hard to track exactly when the editor went from being George Taylor to Perry White, in the comic books, because there's a bunch of stories where the editor isn't named, so he could be George or Perry (or even someone else).

Whereas, god-love-him, E. Nelson Bridwell decided to make some early factoids stick to Superman throughout his career on Earth-Two--so he was Kal-L, George Taylor was always the editor and the paper was always the DAILY STAR. While other later changes were incorporated into the Earth-Two Superman. He did get more powers over time until he had the same powers as Earth-One Superman (plus a couple extra powers, like being able to change his face). His Krypton seems more like Kal-El's Krypton--and I believe both Kal-L and Kara Zor-L got their powers from the yellow sun, which was never in the original stories.

So if you stick with the Earth-Two version you have to squint at the original stories--from the late '30s through the early '50s--and apply some retroactive continuity to them.

I'd prefer not to do that and just read most of the stories as they were published--and somehow make up a reason why some of the details don't quite agree. For example, if you want to make the radio show fit with the comic books and the comic strips, then you have to ignore the fact that Bud Collyer's Superman came to Earth full grown, sort of like how Power Girl did in the '70s. A chronicler's error (as Michael L. Fleisher might put it)--apparently the radio show was relying on bad information. But the good thing about the radio show is that a lot of things happened there first--like Kryptonite, Jimmy Olsen and Perry White. If memory serves correctly--and if not, I hope Steven Ely will correct me.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Edit.

Seems I didn't remember that right

[The World]

The Golden Age Superman always made me question the idea that Superman was never "cool". I first read about him in around 2007-2008 and thought he was plenty cool, it was the versions after him that failed to keep up. People just say that crap out of fear for what it might mean returning to.

Why not just make a Golden Age world and leave out all the muck that's been created since then? Old Clark, Diana, Bruce, Wildcat etc.

[Prime]

GA Superman would make a terrific Vertigo comic.

[Prime]

But GA Superman is dead. He was killed by Superboy-Prime and his body disintegrated in Blackest Night.

[Jon Clark]

But GA Superman is dead. He was killed by Superboy-Prime and his body disintegrated in Blackest Night.

No, as Jim Kelly pointed out it was the Earth-Two Superman who died. Or maybe not even him- as Geoff's E-2 wasn't exactly the one from Pre-Crisis. He wasn't necessarily the same guy as the one in Action #1 (1938). The Golden-Age Superman might have left the chronicles around the same time his creator(s) did. Or he might have diverged from his comic book counterpart when "the K-metal" story wasn't published, or when the cartoons/radio/newspaper stories began, or when the first retcon occurred ...

I think the real problem is finding a writer who could recreate him. Someone who could follow the threads of those early tales and pick the "right" ones to follow rather than either following the company line or trying to recast everything in 2016 terms. For example, balancing the "Slap a Jap" racist mentality that Superman might have shared with the 1940's public with the idea that Superman is the hero of the tale. Or deciding whether the "no kill rule" was something Superman grew into or something DC added to the stories when transcribing them.

[Stingo]

So many great ideas here!

And yeah, that's been my fan-fiction dream of a Superman-story too - a story that combines various things from the Golden Age, and fits them together, detailing the life and times of Earth-2 Superman - showing how he's actually a bit too rough around the edges at first, and then how he mellows out a bit with age, and all those adventures.

Could be a fantastic series really - Superman as originally imagined, but updated with modern levels of art and characterization.

Who would we want to write such a series, btw?

A few years back, I would have said either James Robinson or Mark Waid - nowadays I'm not so sure about Robinson tho'... He's kind of started to lose that golden touch of his, imo.


Waid would of course never do it, he hates DC Editorial with a passion as far as I understand - not that I blame him too much, he has his reasons for doing so.


Alan Moore would be the dream... but he's already done his Supreme, so he wouldn't be interested either - and he's never coming back to mainstream comics, that's for sure.

You left out the most obvious choice to write such a series...Roy Thomas.

[Ascended]

No, as Jim Kelly pointed out it was the Earth-Two Superman who died. Or maybe not even him- as Geoff's E-2 wasn't exactly the one from Pre-Crisis. He wasn't necessarily the same guy as the one in Action #1 (1938). The Golden-Age Superman might have left the chronicles around the same time his creator(s) did. Or he might have diverged from his comic book counterpart when "the K-metal" story wasn't published, or when the cartoons/radio/newspaper stories began, or when the first retcon occurred ...

I think the real problem is finding a writer who could recreate him. Someone who could follow the threads of those early tales and pick the "right" ones to follow rather than either following the company line or trying to recast everything in 2016 terms. For example, balancing the "Slap a Jap" racist mentality that Superman might have shared with the 1940's public with the idea that Superman is the hero of the tale. Or deciding whether the "no kill rule" was something Superman grew into or something DC added to the stories when transcribing them.

I think it would be difficult to transcribe certain elements of the character into a contemporary setting. The racism and sexism being the most obvious ones, but there are more subtle differences too, which would be just as hard, if not harder, to translate.

But I think if you got the broad strokes right, it would be enough. The sense of humor, the intolerance for corruption, the willingness to throw his weight around and go against authority. These are things that are, by and large, timeless, and especially in today's political climate, there's a lot of material to dig into.

[Jon Clark]

I think it would be difficult to transcribe certain elements of the character into a contemporary setting. The racism and sexism being the most obvious ones, but there are more subtle differences too, which would be just as hard, if not harder, to translate.

But I think if you got the broad strokes right, it would be enough. The sense of humor, the intolerance for corruption, the willingness to throw his weight around and go against authority. These are things that are, by and large, timeless, and especially in today's political climate, there's a lot of material to dig into.

If we are talking expanding Morrison's take of a contemporary Superman who used the same approach as the 1938 version, I agree.

But the one thing that bothers me when we see modern authors trying to do period pieces is the tendency to give the heroes "20/20 hindsight" or "2016 ideology". I don't want to see the JSA as a bunch of racist, homophobic misogynist thugs- but on the other hand I don't think they should all magically be free of the mindset of the general population. It should be possible to present a hero of the 1940's who fought for the right ideals and still had misguided ideas about the role of women, civil rights, etc; .

[Stingo]

If we are talking expanding Morrison's take of a contemporary Superman who used the same approach as the 1938 version, I agree.

But the one thing that bothers me when we see modern authors trying to do period pieces is the tendency to give the heroes "20/20 hindsight" or "2016 ideology". I don't want to see the JSA as a bunch of racist, homophobic misogynist thugs- but on the other hand I don't think they should all magically be free of the mindset of the general population. It should be possible to present a hero of the 1940's who fought for the right ideals and still had misguided ideas about the role of women, civil rights, etc; .

Roy Thomas did this with the Golden Age Starman in All Star Squadron and The Young All Stars...Ted Knight, in Roy's workings, was a well meaning mystery man who - like many in America in early 1942 - harbored what would now be considered a racist mindset towards the Japanese.

[Virile Agitur]

I think it would be difficult to transcribe certain elements of the character into a contemporary setting. The racism and sexism being the most obvious ones

superman spanking.jpg

why, whatever do you mean?

[Ascended]

Well, I guess Superman might start appealing to the S&M crowd.....that'd be a fun new segment of the fandom, and Im sure the conversations here would take an interesting twist if nothing else.

[kimbra3500]

In Convergence Action Comics, Earth 2 Superman was brought back. Did anyone read that? Depending on your interpretation of the ending--it seemed to insinuate the old earth 2 characters were once again in usable continuity, even though their usage seems highly unlikely.