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  1. #1
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    Default Something to understand about Superdad...

    You do realize that until Convergence you guys were reading about Pre52 Superman, yes? A younger one with a different backstory, but he was billed as the same guy you read for the 30 years prior. That potential some of you speak about was for the same Superman that, and I quote, "Was the reason the NU52 happened in the first place."

    DC didn't sell the NU52 as a new world with brand new version of these characters. They were sold as the same characters from the Pre52 with alternate backstories and alternate events in their lives. Flash's actions during Flashpoint caused the Pre52 world to evolve into the NU52 one. Same Earth though. Same versions of the characters.

    It wasn't until Convergence that it was retconned that the NU52 versions were indeed completely new, and that the old version were trapped on some bottle world.

    Which is why you guys saying that Superdad needs to go back home is stupid. He is home. There is no Pre52 World for him to go back to. His World evolved into the NU52 World, and that's going by Convergence.
    Last edited by The Nuke; 03-29-2016 at 04:51 PM.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I wasn't reading the Superman titles regularly before New 52. That's sort of the point. I gave it a chance and the chance paid off. Now they are reverting back to the old model.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I wasn't reading the Superman titles regularly before New 52. That's sort of the point. I gave it a chance and the chance paid off. Now they are reverting back to the old model.
    Until last year you were reading about the Old Model with a new paint job.

  4. #4
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    Superdad needs to be re-retconned out of existence then, thank you for correcting the lexicon.

    I hate it because it makes all of supermans stories about Jon and Lois and i hate Lois and don't particularly want to see Superman as Dad be the REAL superman. It's bullcrap.

    Meanwhile, I invested a lot into N52 superman and saying that my Superman just is a fake or fraud like a lot of the promotional materials just pisses me off.

  5. #5
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    Super dad need to go he just a bad reminder of how bad Convergence was and his boring like hell.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Nuke View Post
    You Superdad haters do realize that until Convergence you guys were reading about Pre52 Superman, yes? A younger one with a different backstory, but he was the same guy you read for the 30 years prior. That potential some of you speak about was for the same Superman that, and I quote, "Was the reason the NU52 happened in the first place."

    DC didn't sell the NU52 as a new world with brand new version of these characters. They were sold as the same characters from the Pre52 with alternate backstories and alternate events in their lives. Flash's actions during Flashpoint caused the Pre52 world to evolve into the NU52 one. Same Earth though. Same versions of the characters.

    It wasn't until Convergence that it was retconned.

    Which is why you guys saying that Superdad needs to go back home. He is home. There is no Pre52 World for him to go back to. His World evolved into the NU52 World, and that's going by Convergence.
    Writers can say at any time that there was a mistake and the universe still exists. It happened exactly that way in JSA - Thy Kingdom Come. Earth-22 Superman got initially informed that his universe got destroyed so he went on an adventure with the JSA until he found out with the villain's defeat that his universe still existed. And even if it I destroyed, there are parallel universes with dead Supermen on them because Darkseid visited multiple universes and killed Supermen in each one, there's vacancies to fill, and they can write in Starman to send Supes and the family there.

    The only real problem I have with Pre-Flashpoint Superman is largely the problem of writers in making him not present at big crises. Doomsday and being engaged to Lois didn't stop him from being a hero willing to risk his life then, and yet suddenly DC writes him off as no longer putting the world first. Writers at DC neuter Superman badly, or at least didn't plan the whole backstory for Pre-52 being on Prime Earth very well, if at all. I don't hate an older version, but writers and editorial at DC are horribly incompetent and stripping away base attributes of courage and heroics that Superman used to have. Family shouldn't stop Superman from putting his life on the line for the greater good of humanity, it did not do so before in prior continuity. Even Lois understood that.

  7. #7
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    But that's the point. See you guys are bashing an old character that in reality was the same character who started the NU52. He was not a completely new version, at least not until convergence.

    The character that had potential. That was completely new and fresh. Yeah that guy is the same guy you're bashing. The guy who didn't sell before the NU52. The guy who was the reason the NU52 started. Yep up until last year he was the very one you were still reading about in the NU52.

    Basically guys, you started the NU52 reading about the Pre52 Superman, and now you'll start Rebirth reading about the Pre52 Superman.

    Congrats!!!
    Last edited by The Nuke; 03-29-2016 at 05:12 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieHard200904 View Post
    Writers can say at any time that there was a mistake and the universe still exists. It happened exactly that way in JSA - Thy Kingdom Come. Earth-22 Superman got initially informed that his universe got destroyed so he went on an adventure with the JSA until he found out with the villain's defeat that his universe still existed. And even if it I destroyed, there are parallel universes with dead Supermen on them because Darkseid visited multiple universes and killed Supermen in each one, there's vacancies to fill, and they can write in Starman to send Supes and the family there.

    The only real problem I have with Pre-Flashpoint Superman is largely the problem of writers in making him not present at big crises. Doomsday and being engaged to Lois didn't stop him from being a hero willing to risk his life then, and yet suddenly DC writes him off as no longer putting the world first. Writers at DC neuter Superman badly, or at least didn't plan the whole backstory for Pre-52 being on Prime Earth very well, if at all. I don't hate an older version, but writers and editorial at DC are horribly incompetent and stripping away base attributes of courage and heroics that Superman used to have. Family shouldn't stop Superman from putting his life on the line for the greater good of humanity, it did not do so before in prior continuity. Even Lois understood that.
    Those are arguments for the Superman character. Not just versions of him.

    It doesn't matter which Superman it is if he still isn't what Superman is supposed to be. That's what people should be angry about. Not bashing a character you were actually on board with for 4 years, until he was retconned as not being that version of the character anymore.

    Quality Superman stories is the true concern. Superman stories that have Superman being Superman. Not prefered versions.
    Last edited by The Nuke; 03-29-2016 at 05:37 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Nuke View Post
    Those are arguments for the Superman character. Not just version of him.

    It doesn't matter which Superman it is if he still isn't what Superman is supposed to be. That's what people should be angry about. Not bashing a character you were actually on board with for 4 years, until he was retconned as not being that version of the character anymore.

    Quality Superman stories is the true concern. Superman stories that have Superman being Superman. Not prefered versions.
    We're all pretty sure this version is being set up to have like a year or two of terrible stories. I really cant even conceive of this direction being good.

    the rest is just you being needlessly semantic and you need to knock it off.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardsdv View Post
    We're all pretty sure this version is being set up to have like a year or two of terrible stories. I really cant even conceive of this direction being good.

    the rest is just you being needlessly semantic and you need to knock it off.
    what if the stories are good? you didn't even read it, you can't know that

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    It's Jurgens and Tomasi who both, notably, currently write Superman comics and neither is especially good at it.

    Maybe a miracle will happen but otherwise yeah its gonna suck.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardsdv View Post
    It's Jurgens and Tomasi who both, notably, currently write Superman comics and neither is especially good at it.

    Maybe a miracle will happen but otherwise yeah its gonna suck.
    Jurgens has been pretty good at lois and clark, many creators and critics praising.

    Tomasi will co-write with patrick gleason, so maybe there is hope

  13. #13
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    Pre-Flashpoint Superman leading the Superman books is the best case scenario given the writers on the Superman books.

    If Jurgens and Tomasi have to butcher Superman, it might as well be a version of the character that will be out eventually.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardsdv View Post
    We're all pretty sure this version is being set up to have like a year or two of terrible stories. I really cant even conceive of this direction being good.

    the rest is just you being needlessly semantic and you need to knock it off.
    "We're all sure Superman is being set up to have like a year or two of terrible stories."

    Fixed

    and I don't agree. Johns seems interested in getting back to the core of the characters. We're heard that before, but I'm interested in what he means by that. If it's Superman by way of Green Lantern: Rebirth then it may turn out well.

    I just want good old fashioned Superman stories. Fuck trying anything new with him. Let him be just plain old boring Superman.

    That's the one everyone wishes they end up having anyway.

  15. #15
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    Okay, so let's take your premise at face value. Does it matter? What has Superman been doing the last year? Wandering around without powers. Before that? Got turned into Doomsday. Before that? Lois got turned into Brainiac. What was Superman doing before the reboot? Wandering around the country doing nothing. After he was out of his own book for over a year. And all the survivors of his home planet were killed by Lois' father. See a pattern here? The problem isn't which "version" we're talking about here, it's the management. Grant Morrison wrote the last good Superman story. Five years ago. The only real exception was the first SM/WW storyarc with the introduction of Zod. Why are they doing this? Because they're out of ideas. Now, do you think that changing back to the pre-Flashpoint version is going to change that?

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