New 52 Superman fans, what do we do now?

[superduperman]

Now that the "old" Superman is coming back, what are our options? Do we wait it out and see what they did to the "new" Superman? I'm at least willing to do this. Do we move on to someone else? The current management at DC doesn't seem to know what to do with Superman in general, regardless of which "version" we're talking about so I'm not so sure moving on is such a bad idea. At least until the current editorial regime is gone. What do you plan to do?

[edwardsdv]

I mean my plan is to speak with my wallet. I will buy Supergirl and New Superman and then nothing but Batman titles. Because at least there is some level of competence over in Bat-land. You can see they feel so damn clever.

It's to the point where I am going to be more excited about Red Hood and Nightwing than Superman - a dark dark day for superman fandom.

[calypsocoin]

I mean my plan is to speak with my wallet. I will buy Supergirl and New Superman and then nothing but Batman titles. Because at least there is some level of competence over in Bat-land. You can see they feel so damn clever.

Yes, by all means, let's support the continual preference and special treatment given to the Batman universe; I'm sure that will definitely convince DC to put in more effort and attention to the Superman titles and Superman fans. *rolls eyes* The problem isn't that the Bat titles have better editors/writers, it's that top-level DC management is so clearly valuing Batman and family over Superman that they make poor decisions concerning him with little regard to the fans or the legacy of the character.

I personally think PTJ is in a bit of a tough spot - he is being tweeted at by the SM/WW fandom and does not want to antagonize them outright - I will take that with a grain of salt

Ok, but there are also Clark/Lois fans who are fans of n52 Superman and want to see n52 Clark develop a relationship with Lois, especially since recent issues of Superman/Action comics seemed very hopeful for this relationship. As well as n52 Superman's friendship with Jimmy Olsen.

[DieHard200904]

Yes, by all means, let's support the continual preference and special treatment given to the Batman universe; I'm sure that will definitely convince DC to put in more effort and attention to the Superman titles and Superman fans. *rolls eyes* The problem isn't that the Bat titles have better editors/writers, it's that top-level DC management is so clearly valuing Batman and family over Superman that they make poor decisions concerning him with little regard to the fans or the legacy of the character.



Ok, but there are also Clark/Lois fans who are fans of n52 Superman and want to see n52 Clark develop a relationship with Lois, especially since recent issues of Superman/Action comics seemed very hopeful for this relationship. As well as n52 Superman's friendship with Jimmy Olsen.

I hate to say it but DC has just shown that they pretty much give up on Superman when the going gets tough. They did tease him and LL in Unchained, Doomed, etc. But they just decided in a time when they could give Superman development they figured he was beyond saving, and cut his character development via stories out, when he had plenty of potential and had some rough spots to climb out of, if DC really wanted to embrace creativity, regardless of how I like Superman, I have to say that DC totally chickened out and isn't willing to grow a spine into writing stories and working with him as a character, which will probably be a bad sign for the new replacement if anything a bit down the road, where they might call it quits with that one too.

[Will J.]

Ok, but there are also Clark/Lois fans who are fans of n52 Superman and want to see n52 Clark develop a relationship with Lois, especially since recent issues of Superman/Action comics seemed very hopeful for this relationship. As well as n52 Superman's friendship with Jimmy Olsen.

See, with all due respect, this is the kind of attitude that makes me resent some of the Lois and Clark fanbase. I'm not going to sit here and insult them for liking what they like, but I also won't sit here and lie about not liking the idea that Lois and Clark should be together in every universe.

As a former poster here, Self-DCeit, said on the Comic Vine boards, it's a narrative constriction that seems to be placed solely on Superman.

And to me, it hinders him more than it adds anything that hasn't already been told over the course of his history. As someone who reads Superman for, you know, Superman, more than I do for whoever he's with, it's getting a little old watching the same tired story play out over and over again, with the quality of each iteration declining each time.

Not that it matters now, though.

*This post has been edited for less hostility.

[dangleo61288]

See, with all due respect, this is the kind of attitude that makes me resent the hell out of the Lois and Clark fanbase. That they have to be together in every damn universe. It's a crock of s**t, and it only further displays the sense of entitlement that I find a lot of Lois and Clark fans to have.

Pass on that garbage.

Well the Superman and Lois relationship is part of the mythology.

[edwardsdv]

Well the Superman and Lois relationship is part of the mythology.

So is Hal Jordan getting together with Carol and being weak to wood or yellow.

Mythology is made to be broken.

[Will J.]

Well the Superman and Lois relationship is part of the mythology.

I don't deny that, and I never will.

I've also done my damnedest to respect what other people enjoy, but you can't keep doing the same thing over and over again and then ask why sales aren't getting better. Or why the character isn't catching on the way he used to.

They've seen the story ad nauseum, and while there are plenty of people who still enjoy it(and more power to them), it's not something I can support any longer.

I value creativity and originality(or as close to originality as one can get these days) and with Morrison having left a while back and Pak now gone, those things left the Superman franchise as well, in my mind. And the whole Super Sons thing is clearly a riff on John Byrne's Generations.

Standing in place gets you nowhere.

[Ascended]

What will 52 Super-fans do now? Likely the same thing we did in 2011; check out the new books, judge them by their own merits and our personal tastes, and either drop the books or keep reading.

I'll be giving Supergirl, New Super-Man, and Trinity a real shot; likely two or three issues of each to impress me. Super Sons will get the same shot, and Superwoman might too, depending on what it's about (I like the creative team at least). Wonder Woman is going back on the pull list after being dropped with the Finch's. Action and Superman get, at most, one issue each. Im not thrilled with the creative teams or direction, so the only hope they have of keeping me around is to blow me away with the execution.

The odds are very, very good that DC has lost my business with this, but I'll give them a chance to prove themselves, though giving this mess even one issue is more than they deserve.

As for the rest of DC, there's a couple titles that I'll keep with on a monthly basis, but Im most likely going to switch to trade-waiting because of this. All the money I typically spend on DC each week I'll be putting into Image and Dark Horse instead.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Well the Superman and Lois relationship is part of the mythology.

Yes it is. Doesn't mean it has to repeat itself ad nauseum. They brought back the PF Superman & Lois. Clois fans should be happy. Let fans of the new52 Superman and Wonder Woman be happy, too. They didn't even care to explore the relationship after a while.

[calypsocoin]

See, with all due respect, this is the kind of attitude that makes me resent some of the Lois and Clark fanbase. I'm not going to sit here and insult them for liking what they like, but I also won't sit here and lie about not liking the idea that Lois and Clark should be together in every universe.

As a former poster here, Self-DCeit, said on the Comic Vine boards, it's a narrative constriction that seems to be placed solely on Superman.

And to me, it hinders him more than it adds anything that hasn't already been told over the course of his history. As someone who reads Superman for, you know, Superman, more than I do for whoever he's with, it's getting a little old watching the same tired story play out over and over again, with the quality of each iteration declining each time.

Not that it matters now, though.

*This post has been edited for less hostility.

Well, I wasn't trying to be entitled, sorry if that offends. I /can/ be an entitled Clark/Lois fan at times, but this was not one of them. I was just trying to clarify it's not only SM/WW fans who are invested in the future of n52 Superman. I would love to see he and Lois get together again, yes, but that's not the only reason I want him to stick around. I'm upset with the decision basically because it represents DC once again "giving up" on Superman and rather than putting effort into rebuilding him just replacing him with an already established version. This rebuilding is what I hoped for most out of Rebirth.

I've felt from the beginning that they shot themselves in the foot with the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship. For better or worse the relationship between Lois and Clark is the heart of the franchise. Relegating Lois to the side like she's been for so much of the Nu52 is like making Chekov Kirk's best friend and relegating Spock to a bit role. Even if it starts out all right it is detrimental in the long-term because it takes the heart out of the franchise.

Well said, I definitely agree! I also feel that SM/WW could have been a good relationship, I even gave it half a chance (although I never believed it would be endgame for a second), but it was so poorly written and characterized I just couldn't stick with it at all.

[Will J.]

Well, I wasn't trying to be entitled, sorry if that offends. I /can/ be an entitled Clark/Lois fan at times, but this was not one of them. I was just trying to clarify it's not only SM/WW fans who are invested in the future of n52 Superman. I would love to see he and Lois get together again, yes, but that's not the only reason I want him to stick around. I'm upset with the decision basically because it represents DC once again "giving up" on Superman and rather than putting effort into rebuilding him just replacing him with an already established version. This rebuilding is what I hoped for most out of Rebirth

Well, I want to apologize here, which is also why I edited my post, because you really didn't say anything that pissed me off. I was mainly venting my frustration, though I stand by everything I said in my post, and yours unfortunately was the one that set me off. And I apologize for suggesting the only reason you wanted n52 back was for Lois and Clark,

So again, I am sorry for that.

Secondly, you are FAR, FAR from the worst example of an entitled fan that I've come across(and I mean across all fandoms, not just Lois and Clark's), so even if you weren't serious with that 'sorry' bit, it wouldn't have been necessary.

My main problem is with DC itself, which has the means to reach a wide variety of fandoms with their Multiverse concept and the weekly format they've successfully employed in recent years, and they choose instead to, whether unknowingly or otherwise, divide the fanbase X.

And I can't accept that anymore.

[edwardsdv]

Yes, by all means, let's support the continual preference and special treatment given to the Batman universe; I'm sure that will definitely convince DC to put in more effort and attention to the Superman titles and Superman fans. *rolls eyes* The problem isn't that the Bat titles have better editors/writers, it's that top-level DC management is so clearly valuing Batman and family over Superman that they make poor decisions concerning him with little regard to the fans or the legacy of the character.



Ok, but there are also Clark/Lois fans who are fans of n52 Superman and want to see n52 Clark develop a relationship with Lois, especially since recent issues of Superman/Action comics seemed very hopeful for this relationship. As well as n52 Superman's friendship with Jimmy Olsen.

The Batman line is the only line they have consistently handled with competence. Why buy bad comics? That's always been my thing. For my part, I legitimately enjoyed Truth, art issues aside, I enjoyed lobdell Superman, mainly because of Rocafort art, his handling of Cat Grant turning her into a sympathetic character and the way he drew diana in her civvies being...so great, I loved the couple issues of Superman Jurgens did (LucyxClark was cute), and even the somewhat less inspired Perez run on the title. If I hadn't I wouldn't have read them.

If they're going to handle the Superman line with incompetence and make the boring Lois and Clark story the main story, well then theyll have lost my Action Comics subscription.

And yes i agree so much, this particular Jimmy/Clark friendship has been great and really the supporting cast that Pak built up was pretty unique with the Underground allies, Lana and Steel, Jimmy, Wonder Woman even the hacker girl that Yang introduced was pretty cool. I mean it was a pretty great supporting cast even if it only bears a slight resemblence to the classic. I just hope that all of what Pak/Johns/Yang built isnt flushed by Tomasi and Jurgens in favor of a more "classic" orientation but that's my biggest fear.

[DieHard200904]

Now that the "old" Superman is coming back, what are our options? Do we wait it out and see what they did to the "new" Superman? I'm at least willing to do this. Do we move on to someone else? The current management at DC doesn't seem to know what to do with Superman in general, regardless of which "version" we're talking about so I'm not so sure moving on is such a bad idea. At least until the current editorial regime is gone. What do you plan to do?

There's always the option of looking into older and out of canon stories. I was initially too offended to try Superman: Armageddon 2001, but found it's actually a nice story where Superman shows Maxima about how her ways were in the wrong. Also, I found some other Elseworlds stories to be great that some of you on the forum pointed out to me. Again, my thanks. My last New 52 based animated film I just got with Justice League vs Teen Titans, and Superman was interesting in that one too. I am willing to try Batman and possibly Marvel titles, likely older ones, Marvel really turned me off Spider-Man with OMD, and the loss of the Ultimate Universe (wanted to see more of Miles). But they sure won me over with the Captain America movies.

It just hurt to see Nu Superman suffer so much to get retconned.

[superduperman]

There's always the option of looking into older and out of canon stories. I was initially too offended to try Superman: Armageddon 2001, but found it's actually a nice story where Superman shows Maxima about how her ways were in the wrong. Also, I found some other Elseworlds stories to be great that some of you on the forum pointed out to me. Again, my thanks. My last New 52 based animated film I just got with Justice League vs Teen Titans, and Superman was interesting in that one too. I am willing to try Batman and possibly Marvel titles, likely older ones, Marvel really turned me off Spider-Man with OMD, and the loss of the Ultimate Universe (wanted to see more of Miles). But they sure won me over with the Captain America movies.

It just hurt to see Nu Superman suffer so much to get retconned.

I really liked the Adventures of Superman series. The anthology book. Most of the stories are "open world" enough that you can imagine any canon stories you want fit into their universes. Supposedly Max Landis' story he did for the series is part of the American Alien universe (don't know if this has ever been formally confirmed but given that he's building his own world, it would make sense).