New 52 Superman fans, what do we do now?

[calypsocoin]

I mean my plan is to speak with my wallet. I will buy Supergirl and New Superman and then nothing but Batman titles. Because at least there is some level of competence over in Bat-land. You can see they feel so damn clever.

Yes, by all means, let's support the continual preference and special treatment given to the Batman universe; I'm sure that will definitely convince DC to put in more effort and attention to the Superman titles and Superman fans. *rolls eyes* The problem isn't that the Bat titles have better editors/writers, it's that top-level DC management is so clearly valuing Batman and family over Superman that they make poor decisions concerning him with little regard to the fans or the legacy of the character.

I personally think PTJ is in a bit of a tough spot - he is being tweeted at by the SM/WW fandom and does not want to antagonize them outright - I will take that with a grain of salt

Ok, but there are also Clark/Lois fans who are fans of n52 Superman and want to see n52 Clark develop a relationship with Lois, especially since recent issues of Superman/Action comics seemed very hopeful for this relationship. As well as n52 Superman's friendship with Jimmy Olsen.

[DieHard200904]

Yes, by all means, let's support the continual preference and special treatment given to the Batman universe; I'm sure that will definitely convince DC to put in more effort and attention to the Superman titles and Superman fans. *rolls eyes* The problem isn't that the Bat titles have better editors/writers, it's that top-level DC management is so clearly valuing Batman and family over Superman that they make poor decisions concerning him with little regard to the fans or the legacy of the character.



Ok, but there are also Clark/Lois fans who are fans of n52 Superman and want to see n52 Clark develop a relationship with Lois, especially since recent issues of Superman/Action comics seemed very hopeful for this relationship. As well as n52 Superman's friendship with Jimmy Olsen.

I hate to say it but DC has just shown that they pretty much give up on Superman when the going gets tough. They did tease him and LL in Unchained, Doomed, etc. But they just decided in a time when they could give Superman development they figured he was beyond saving, and cut his character development via stories out, when he had plenty of potential and had some rough spots to climb out of, if DC really wanted to embrace creativity, regardless of how I like Superman, I have to say that DC totally chickened out and isn't willing to grow a spine into writing stories and working with him as a character, which will probably be a bad sign for the new replacement if anything a bit down the road, where they might call it quits with that one too.

[Will J.]

Ok, but there are also Clark/Lois fans who are fans of n52 Superman and want to see n52 Clark develop a relationship with Lois, especially since recent issues of Superman/Action comics seemed very hopeful for this relationship. As well as n52 Superman's friendship with Jimmy Olsen.

See, with all due respect, this is the kind of attitude that makes me resent some of the Lois and Clark fanbase. I'm not going to sit here and insult them for liking what they like, but I also won't sit here and lie about not liking the idea that Lois and Clark should be together in every universe.

As a former poster here, Self-DCeit, said on the Comic Vine boards, it's a narrative constriction that seems to be placed solely on Superman.

And to me, it hinders him more than it adds anything that hasn't already been told over the course of his history. As someone who reads Superman for, you know, Superman, more than I do for whoever he's with, it's getting a little old watching the same tired story play out over and over again, with the quality of each iteration declining each time.

Not that it matters now, though.

*This post has been edited for less hostility.

[dangleo61288]

See, with all due respect, this is the kind of attitude that makes me resent the hell out of the Lois and Clark fanbase. That they have to be together in every damn universe. It's a crock of s**t, and it only further displays the sense of entitlement that I find a lot of Lois and Clark fans to have.

Pass on that garbage.

Well the Superman and Lois relationship is part of the mythology.

[edwardsdv]

Well the Superman and Lois relationship is part of the mythology.

So is Hal Jordan getting together with Carol and being weak to wood or yellow.

Mythology is made to be broken.

[Will J.]

Well the Superman and Lois relationship is part of the mythology.

I don't deny that, and I never will.

I've also done my damnedest to respect what other people enjoy, but you can't keep doing the same thing over and over again and then ask why sales aren't getting better. Or why the character isn't catching on the way he used to.

They've seen the story ad nauseum, and while there are plenty of people who still enjoy it(and more power to them), it's not something I can support any longer.

I value creativity and originality(or as close to originality as one can get these days) and with Morrison having left a while back and Pak now gone, those things left the Superman franchise as well, in my mind. And the whole Super Sons thing is clearly a riff on John Byrne's Generations.

Standing in place gets you nowhere.

[KrustyKid]

There's always fanfictions

[Ascended]

What will 52 Super-fans do now? Likely the same thing we did in 2011; check out the new books, judge them by their own merits and our personal tastes, and either drop the books or keep reading.

I'll be giving Supergirl, New Super-Man, and Trinity a real shot; likely two or three issues of each to impress me. Super Sons will get the same shot, and Superwoman might too, depending on what it's about (I like the creative team at least). Wonder Woman is going back on the pull list after being dropped with the Finch's. Action and Superman get, at most, one issue each. Im not thrilled with the creative teams or direction, so the only hope they have of keeping me around is to blow me away with the execution.

The odds are very, very good that DC has lost my business with this, but I'll give them a chance to prove themselves, though giving this mess even one issue is more than they deserve.

As for the rest of DC, there's a couple titles that I'll keep with on a monthly basis, but Im most likely going to switch to trade-waiting because of this. All the money I typically spend on DC each week I'll be putting into Image and Dark Horse instead.

[Will J.]

There's always fanfictions

Yes, there is, and a lot of it is, in my opinion, better than what's coming, regardless of fan fiction's mixed reputation,

Toni Morrison said, "If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." And that's exactly what I'm doing.

[DieHard200904]

Would anyone mind if I bumped the Elseworlds/AU Superman suggestion thread? " What's your favorite Elseworlds take on Superman?" I know there were some suggestions there, and we could share some more for those of us interested in out of canon Superman stories.

[sunofdarkchild]

I've felt from the beginning that they shot themselves in the foot with the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship. For better or worse the relationship between Lois and Clark is the heart of the franchise. Relegating Lois to the side like she's been for so much of the Nu52 is like making Chekov Kirk's best friend and relegating Spock to a bit role. Even if it starts out all right it is detrimental in the long-term because it takes the heart out of the franchise.

[calypsocoin]

See, with all due respect, this is the kind of attitude that makes me resent some of the Lois and Clark fanbase. I'm not going to sit here and insult them for liking what they like, but I also won't sit here and lie about not liking the idea that Lois and Clark should be together in every universe.

As a former poster here, Self-DCeit, said on the Comic Vine boards, it's a narrative constriction that seems to be placed solely on Superman.

And to me, it hinders him more than it adds anything that hasn't already been told over the course of his history. As someone who reads Superman for, you know, Superman, more than I do for whoever he's with, it's getting a little old watching the same tired story play out over and over again, with the quality of each iteration declining each time.

Not that it matters now, though.

*This post has been edited for less hostility.

Well, I wasn't trying to be entitled, sorry if that offends. I /can/ be an entitled Clark/Lois fan at times, but this was not one of them. I was just trying to clarify it's not only SM/WW fans who are invested in the future of n52 Superman. I would love to see he and Lois get together again, yes, but that's not the only reason I want him to stick around. I'm upset with the decision basically because it represents DC once again "giving up" on Superman and rather than putting effort into rebuilding him just replacing him with an already established version. This rebuilding is what I hoped for most out of Rebirth.

I've felt from the beginning that they shot themselves in the foot with the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship. For better or worse the relationship between Lois and Clark is the heart of the franchise. Relegating Lois to the side like she's been for so much of the Nu52 is like making Chekov Kirk's best friend and relegating Spock to a bit role. Even if it starts out all right it is detrimental in the long-term because it takes the heart out of the franchise.

Well said, I definitely agree! I also feel that SM/WW could have been a good relationship, I even gave it half a chance (although I never believed it would be endgame for a second), but it was so poorly written and characterized I just couldn't stick with it at all.

[DieHard200904]

I've felt from the beginning that they shot themselves in the foot with the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship. For better or worse the relationship between Lois and Clark is the heart of the franchise. Relegating Lois to the side like she's been for so much of the Nu52 is like making Chekov Kirk's best friend and relegating Spock to a bit role. Even if it starts out all right it is detrimental in the long-term because it takes the heart out of the franchise.

MJ was the best friend of Peter for years, feels like DC is ripping off Spider-Man a bit.

But then again, it doesn't really matter since they cut any plot progression that New 52 Superman could ever make if they wanted to actually try just to give us all an easy solution by bringing in the previous version and killing off the current one.

[Will J.]

Well, I wasn't trying to be entitled, sorry if that offends. I /can/ be an entitled Clark/Lois fan at times, but this was not one of them. I was just trying to clarify it's not only SM/WW fans who are invested in the future of n52 Superman. I would love to see he and Lois get together again, yes, but that's not the only reason I want him to stick around. I'm upset with the decision basically because it represents DC once again "giving up" on Superman and rather than putting effort into rebuilding him just replacing him with an already established version. This rebuilding is what I hoped for most out of Rebirth

Well, I want to apologize here, which is also why I edited my post, because you really didn't say anything that pissed me off. I was mainly venting my frustration, though I stand by everything I said in my post, and yours unfortunately was the one that set me off. And I apologize for suggesting the only reason you wanted n52 back was for Lois and Clark,

So again, I am sorry for that.

Secondly, you are FAR, FAR from the worst example of an entitled fan that I've come across(and I mean across all fandoms, not just Lois and Clark's), so even if you weren't serious with that 'sorry' bit, it wouldn't have been necessary.

My main problem is with DC itself, which has the means to reach a wide variety of fandoms with their Multiverse concept and the weekly format they've successfully employed in recent years, and they choose instead to, whether unknowingly or otherwise, divide the fanbase X.

And I can't accept that anymore.

[SplinteringHeart]

Well, I‘ve mentioned I‘m a Marvel fan mostly but still a fan of DC concerning my personal "big three", Superman, Wonder Woman and the Justice League...I have all the run of Justice League and Wonder Woman since the reboot in the mid 1980s....I couldn't‘ go with de-powered Superman so didn't keep up with the John Byrne reset....

I'm sad to lose Nu52 Superman, I gladly jumped on board and was happy to get in on collecting a run of Action Comics in particular, and I loved the SM-WW scenario, always have loved the idea of them together....all gone gone for me now....

I agree with Sacred Knight, I feel the same...but I'll see Nu52 Superman line through, and get the Rebirth stuff, just to have it blasted into my eyes what DC are really going to do with 52 Supes.....and then I won‘t go with the PF Supes/Superman/LoisLane scenario....

Contradictorily, as a Spider-fan, if Marvel did similar to DC on Supes and brought back Mrs Parker and their child, I would be happy, but I'm not in favour of Supes being Superdad, I see him as an ultimate, a high ideal, a world saver, him in too much of a domestic setting is not my preference....of course he and Lois together is the classic pairing, and good luck to those who welcome the return of this scenario, but I,ll move on..

I‘ve had the feeling for a long time that DC have not been sure what to do with Superman, this hasn't changed as of this latest initiative....

Sad to say, I‘m not a fan of Bats but his books are looking interesting, from the creative teams assigned....I'm glad WW is looking good too even if she suffers "a horrible loss", Don‘t know what to do about Justice League yet post Rebirth....I think I'll try Green Arrow...

Cheers

Jon