New 52 Superman fans, what do we do now?

[Myskin]

You don't want THAT, you REALLY don't want that. DC might do stunts like Marvel, but that other thing? No, just no.

Quite frankly I am pretty sure that everything will be back to status quo in maximum a couple of years.

[Sacred Knight]

I'm guessing after one year, main status quo will be the two Superman set-up. That status quo will be in place before the second act of the Rebirth initiative. This of course assuming the two-year plan for Rebirth remains mostly on track. Which is never a safe assumption when it comes to DC, but just for the sake of this discussion I'm allowing the assumption it will.

[Myskin]

I think what he was saying is that not many cared about the Lois and Clark book until it was clear he was soon to be the main Superman again. Now that it looks like he is, suddenly he and the book has gained relevance.

That's what I meant. But to be fair I am not even that sure that Lois and Clark is a good example of how a Jurgens-helmed Superman book will be. Lois and Clark (which I have zero interest in) is a small book where Jurgens had - I think - free rein. When the Reign of Supers or whatsitsname will begin, everything will a bit tweaked to accomodate the necessities of the big storyline.

[Lairston]

The toy is trunkless in the next page. Maybe, that one is a mistake of the colorist.

I refuse to acknowledge that panel :P

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

I'm curious to see what the sales for #7 and #8 will be when compared to the others. I don't think there will be a dramatic increase, but I do think there will be more eyes on that book as we transition into Rebirth.

Sales for #7 should be higher than #6, as #7 comes with a variant cover.

[Darkspellmaster]

Sales for #7 should be higher than #6, as #7 comes with a variant cover.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking too. People tend to bee line for the vairents, even if they're more expensive in a lot of cases. Colorist, or artist, may have liked the trunks. Also, remember, that previously Superman had toys out there in pre flashpoint that had different designs on them as well. So this also could be a case of that.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I refuse to acknowledge that panel :P

I take it you are one of those who are in denial since 2011.

[Lairston]

I take it you are one of those who are in denial since 2011.

Yep :P

But #51 has broken through it. Good writing tends to make me more accepting

[Last Son of Krypton]

Yep :P

But #51 has broken through it. Good writing tends to make me more accepting

That's a good thing.

[Ascended]

Can I quote this part of your post elsewhere?

Because it's such a perfect summation of the differences between Batman and Superman that I have to share this, and it's yet another reason I prefer Superman to Batman, especially as someone who's trying to do exactly as what you've just described.

By all means, share away! I firmly believe that my wisdom should be spread to all four corners of the earth.

Well, yeah. Good points there. I've said before that I hate Batman, mainly because more often than not Superman looks like an idiot whenever he's around, but in the end it's not his fault (although I still struggle with that: very often I can't help it, I hate freaking Batgod), but DC/WB's.

However, there was a time when Superman was DC's top dog. And the fact that he isn't - and hasn't been for like the last 20 years - is because DC doesn't care. Or at least not enough. And that tells me that he can be numero 1 again, if DC/WB REALLY wanted it.

DC could easily promote Superman more and build him back up.

But they'd have to decide what they're going to build him into first.

Meanwhile, Batman has a well established, thirty year foundation (based on even older material) proven to work very well, and they *know* what he is. So its not likely we're going to see DC or WB make the necessary changes.

What it will take is a strong, long run by a creative team in the comics, something that gets everyone's attention and lays the groundwork for a version that DC/WB can get behind. If they get that, something both commercially and critically acclaimed, and it proves to fit with whatever the people at WB want, they'll start pushing the character in that direction and his popularity will rise again. But its not going to be a top-down thing, it's gonna have to start at the ground level and work its way up, building enough cred and profitability that whoever sits on the next level will have no choice but to embrace it. Right now, I can think of, maybe, three writers in the industry who could pull that off, who have the both the imagination and the name-draw to bring the readers in. And none of them work at DC, and one of them never will.

[Prime]

Plot twist New 52 Superman stays dead.

[Doctor Bifrost]

You know, I sympathize with you folks, I really do. Even though I don't consider myself a "NuPerman fan." (Or for that matter a SuperDad fan.) It looks like you're losing a character that you really cared about, a character that you think (with some good reason) should have instead been the centerpoint of the DCU.

And I also understand the concerns of having a "main" Superman who is a refugee from another timeline, who didn't grow up, get a job, form relationships, and start his superhero career in the universe in which the stories are taking place. That doesn't strike me as an intrinsically great idea, either, any more than SuperJon does (although in both cases we won't really know until we see how it's implemented).

And I hear you loud and clear when you say "if you wanted a Superman who was married to Lois and had a kid, you should have done that with the Superman you had. You could have used some time travel to quickly get it to the point you wanted with it, and still had 'Lost Stories' to tell about the missing 10 years." As a continuity fan who is interested in how narratives work, I'm not always thrilled when writers give themselves an easy way out to skip over the character development part, which is what it sort of looks like here - "hey, will just bring in a doppleganger who is already developed! Then we won't have to think about the details." (Again, we'll have to see, and using time travel would have been a little bit of a cheat too, but less so, I think.)

But you know what? Most of you seem pretty sure that you'll get "your" Superman back in a year or two. Or that he won't be dead, but just hanging out in the sun, or getting lost in the multiverse, and he'll be back.

And even if not, your Superman is still part of the continuity, part of the stories. He existed, he had adventures, he had friends and enemies, and then - maybe - he died. But he was still there, and his actions, influence, and relationships continue to affect the stories going forward.

I, on the other hand, suspect that I will never get "my" Wonder Woman back. George Rucka does not seem to be interested in restoring those aspects that I consider key to her mythos and themes. Her planned movie seems to be cementing some of the aspects I'm least happy with. Brian Azzarello's definition and origin of Wonder Woman appear to have taken over entirely, and I doubt I will ever get to see the version I prefer as the "primary" Wonder Woman again. And it's not like she's even still part of the continuity, just with her role now taken by another character - perhaps temporarily. She simply does not exist, and - from the viewpoint of the story - never has.

And when I've talked about this on these boards, I have been told repeatedly:
- "You're just old and you don't like change!"
- "We don't have to worry about how feminist themes are represented in Wonder Woman. We're past all that!" (Better: "Don't you know that feminism ruined Wonder Woman?")
- "Your old comics are still there. And there are alternate versions of Wonder Woman outside mainstream continuity. Go read those!"

and so on. To the point that I don't really talk about it anymore here.

So I understand. Just thought I'd mention it.

[Ascended]

Actually, I got the impression that Rucka was retreating from a lot of the Azzarello stuff and going back to a more Perez style origin.

The book is supposed to jump between a story happening now, and one digging into her origin, right?

I mean, I could be completely wrong, but unless I am either misinformed or dont know details you do, there's hope that you'll get something, if not exactly the same, then much closer to what you want. At least as far as her origin goes.

But I dont go to the WW boards anymore, that place is too.....well it makes the Superboard look like one big happy family, so I very well might have missed stuff.

[Flash Gordon]

Actually, I got the impression that Rucka was retreating from a lot of the Azzarello stuff and going back to a more Perez style origin.

The book is supposed to jump between a story happening now, and one digging into her origin, right?

I mean, I could be completely wrong, but unless I am either misinformed or dont know details you do, there's hope that you'll get something, if not exactly the same, then much closer to what you want. At least as far as her origin goes.

But I dont go to the WW boards anymore, that place is too.....well it makes the Superboard look like one big happy family, so I very well might have missed stuff.

Yeah brother, we should stay away from those WW boards. Some roads...you shouldn't go down. I feel enough tension in our home base lately.

Anyway, I'm not sure. I'm a big ole Greg Rucka fan and I feel like he'd build nicely off of Azz's run. I'm hoping for it. I've been getting WONDER WOMAN in tpb so I'm likely to continue doing so, though I'm super antsy to read his WW right away.

[Ascended]

I know right? This place was divisive enough, but now sometimes I feel like I should duck my head so I dont get shot.

Its been better than it was right after the announcements, though. I think even Sacred is a little less rage-filled. Though I dont think Super-Crab is going to get over this anytime soon.

As for Diana, I was, and still am, in favor of keeping Azzarello's origins. I dont agree with everything he did, but just about all of it opens doors for Diana herself to lead her people to a better way, which is something I'd like to see (and Id argue it was clearly Azzarello's intent too). I havent read the book since the Finch's came on, so I have very little idea of whats been happening (other than Donna Troy is alive again, or maybe for the first time, and apparently is evil, except in Titans Hunt, or something?) but I'd rather see Rucka build on what has been done than spend his time backtracking so we end up where we were six years ago (Odyssey tacking on that extra year). Im not a fan of going backwards. But I have faith that, no matter what he writes here, Rucka will provide a story worth reading.

As for the trade waiting....only 3 bucks for that first issue man. If it were me, Id make the investment, just to see what Rucka has planned