Is there a way to make everyone happy?

[Myskin]

I am kind of bothered by this as someone phasing out of active collecting. No younger generation? I am honestly a fan of handing it down to the younger generation. I say this because I view Superman similar to other pop culture icons, or like Toy Story 3, I would gladly hand down toys to the kids at Daycare, because I am a guy who likes to share, and doesn't feel that these characters have to grow up with me. Guess it is time to create fanfics for the young, or something at DC has to change, not to mention something else has to change.

I think that we should accept that cultural icons have a lifespan, and not all of them are made to last forever. I understand that it's a bit difficult to accept, but I think that it's entirely possible that one there will be a world without Superman, in the same way we are now living in a world without The Phantom, Flash Gordon and Mandrake (except for some sporadic, short-lived nostalgic remake).

I don't know if Superman as a character is slowly reaching its end. But I am rather certain that, had the writers created more experimental stories focused on him decades ago (as Steve Gerber had begun to do, for example), his status would be infinitely healthier right now. It's also a bit weird that in 30+ years one single story tried to do something different (even from an aesthetical point of view) with the character, and it is now regarded as one of the best Superman stories ever, that is All-Star.

[Myskin]

By the way, now that I think about that: I wouldn't count on it, but it is entirely possible that a Superman renewal will come from a non-comic book media, for example a movie or a videogame. The Arkham series strongly revived the Batman line (which was already rather healthy) and there have been rumors of an upcoming Superman videogame.

[scribbleMind]

Old superman, new superman, as long as Superman is allowed to have quality stories by people that understand the character, I really don't care. However, I am pretty excited to further explore Superman as a father, and I've been enjoying Lois and Clark.

[DieHard200904]

By the way, now that I think about that: I wouldn't count on it, but it is entirely possible that a Superman renewal will come from a non-comic book media, for example a movie or a videogame. The Arkham series strongly revived the Batman line (which was already rather healthy) and there have been rumors of an upcoming Superman videogame.

We just could use a game for him, period. I mean Lego Batman 2 and Lego Batman 3 are fun Superman game play experiences, and they well, aren't titled Superman. I don't care if they don't reflect exactly how being Superman would be, because Shadow of Apokolips, Death and Return of Superman, etc, give a fun experience, and they are from years ago.

[DieHard200904]

I think that we should accept that cultural icons have a lifespan, and not all of them are made to last forever. I understand that it's a bit difficult to accept, but I think that it's entirely possible that one there will be a world without Superman, in the same way we are now living in a world without The Phantom, Flash Gordon and Mandrake (except for some sporadic, short-lived nostalgic remake).

I don't know if Superman as a character is slowly reaching its end. But I am rather certain that, had the writers created more experimental stories focused on him decades ago (as Steve Gerber had begun to do, for example), his status would be infinitely healthier right now. It's also a bit weird that in 30+ years one single story tried to do something different (even from an aesthetical point of view) with the character, and it is now regarded as one of the best Superman stories ever, that is All-Star.

There's the simple fact that you have to make a new degree or update a character for younger generations. If the older ones wish to watch him, they are welcome as anyone else to be an audience in the retelling of the story, but in good management, some things will not go exactly 100 percent what they may want. Also needed are other media like games.

[Myskin]

We just could use a game for him, period. I mean Lego Batman 2 and Lego Batman 3 are fun Superman game play experiences, and they well, aren't titled Superman. I don't care if they don't reflect exactly how being Superman would be, because Shadow of Apokolips, Death and Return of Superman, etc, give a fun experience, and they are from years ago.

To tell the truth, I was thinking of something more along these lines:
http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/conten...s-leaks-online
(the source is reddit, therefore not very reliable).

Basically, I think of a Superman videogame which may be pleasant to play, but could also start a serious renewal for the character from a narrative and aesthetic point of view. The Batman universe, thanks to the Burton movies, the Nolan movies and the Arkham series, established a very precise and recognizable tone: a mix of noir and horror-nightmarish atmosphere (think about the city landscape in Batman '89 and the abandoned sideshows in the Arkham videogames). Superman didn't have as many daring adaptation as Batman, and his universe is basically tasteless (personally speaking, I always thought that a cyberpunk-ish tone could be the most fitting one for Supes, but that's just me).

[Kuwagaton]

I'd say that in most cases, customers can damage a character as much as bad editors. Maybe even worse. In my experience, relatively few superhero readers are really open-minded. In general, they just want more of the same or they simply don't know what they want. These days we are all "Ohh, if only Mark Waid could write Superman". But we keep forgetting that, when Birthright was published, the fan rage was HUGE. Waid - who at that time was a bit more willing to participate to fan forums - had some personal stalkers who kept demolishing his work whenever possible. It was really weird: at least one of them, the so-called MOTA - Man Of The Atom, was basically in every possible comics forum to speak ill about Waid. I think that he didn't sleep in order to damage Birthright as much as possible. Even the site Superman-The Ages stopped reviewing Birthright halfway, because they thought it wasn't worth it.

And thank God Internet didn't exist when Byrne took over Superman in the 1980s.

High five. Speaking personally: the best way I've found to be happy is to admit to myself that what I really want has no directly positive consequence in success. And that even if I successfully petitioned to get my favorite creators on, they could message me to say "thanks but no thanks," or just take it and DC gives it to them, but they do not perform the way I'm so sure they would, critically or commercially.

They can't publish an infinite number of titles, but the approach of modern comics (with DC and Marvel) is put out several titles featuring their most popular characters and paper the stands with their product to edge out their competitors. It's like throwing as many comics at the wall as they can and seeing which ones will stick. They might not be able to sell a lot of copies for one title alone, but the cumulative amount of comics sold in a month generates enough profit to justify the production of so many titles.

What people appear to want based on some of these threads is stability. No more throwing stuff at the wall, planting feet and delivering with clear heads and big effort.

In the '90s, DC produced a lot of Elseworlds one-shots and other out of continuity titles. There were some alternative concepts that sold well enough that they could have supported an ongoing title.

With the multiverse, DC has the option to produce several different versions of Superman. Books like All-STAR SUPERMAN and GENERATIONS and SMALLVILLE and SUPERMAN ADVENTURES. And they can monitor sales and see which of those titles are doing well and which aren't. Whichever concept of Superman sells best will just naturally generate the most comics. Let the market decide.

But the entire comics market shouldn't be seen as one singular audience. There are a few different markets for comic books. And like the throwing everything at the wall approach--it's probably best for DC to try to satisfy a few of those markets, not just one. So that the total cumulative sales are enough to keep them in business

That an Elseworlds could support an ongoing from one of the concepts: on which type of figures are you basing that projection?

Smallville actually just had a comic. Adventures of Superman was also a comic. Last one had some real gems, but the market already decided that no, it's good on the out of continuity stuff.

When it comes to satisfying consumers, DC is doing something that I think is smarter than putting two Clarks in a single or two separate versions of Metropolis: they're going with all-new. We have a revised Supergirl, a new Superboy, a brand new Superwoman, and Kenji. Putting an acclaimed writer like Yang on a brand new Asian character where he will have some pretty obvious leg room is a pretty underrated idea around these parts. I will be personally disappointed if so many of the people who feel like DC is regressive just straight up ignore this character.

[Jim Kelly]

Since SMALLVILLE went for ten years, that seems more like stability than what the comics have given recently. So a comic based on the TV show can be just as official to some people as any other version of Clark Kent.

SUPERMAN ADVENTURES was based on the animated Superman. And when you look at the whole Timm-verse, that seems to have gone on for quite some time. And for many people this was their introduction to DC and a lot of readers still cling to that universe. So again stabllity.

There's a difference between giving readers different versions of the character that they want, letting those versions find their audience, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, just shaking everything up and trying out stuff and never letting anything settle down.

It would be different if DC always only had one version of Superman. But they haven't for many years. There's always been many versions of Superman at the same time for the last couple of decades. So it seems wise to look at the sales and see which versions have gained enough readers then let those have their own existence.

Rather than trying to fold those versions into a supposed official Earth, let them just be. Give up on this idea that there can be one main Earth that stands as the legtimate version of the character. That might have been possible in the past, but DC has done so much damage to continuity that it's impossible to believe that one version has priority over all the others. Readers know that the current continuity will only last for so long--so what's the difference between that and an Elseworlds, an imaginary story, or an adaptation from other media?

It never made sense to me that DC didn't try to monopolize on the success of ALL-STAR SUPERMAN. They could have put out many more comics in that universe. Instead, they seemed to try and cherry pick a few elements from that run and implant them in the so-called mainstream run. But as soon as you do that, you take apart whatever made ALL-STAR have its own unique charm.

[Myskin]

It never made sense to me that DC didn't try to monopolize on the success of ALL-STAR SUPERMAN. They could have put out many more comics in that universe.

That's a choice I approve. I suppose that they didn't do otherwise out of respect for Morrison. But there is another reason, too: the world of All-Star Superman works on a very delicate balance between a fable-like atmosphere and timeless superheroics, and it wouldn't work in a prolonged continuity. Making a whole universe out of it would be the same as building a continuity for Little Nemo, or Moebius' Arzach.

I'd rather say that they could have monopolized the success of Earth One's OGNs. But quite frankly, the quality of some E-1 OGNs is so abysmal that I consider myself lucky that they didn't do more of them.

What I would have really liked to see is more standalone stories which anyone could read and be invested in, without a prior knowledge of the continuity. Batman has plenty of them, from DKR to The Killing Joke, from Arkham Asylum to Night Cries. Superman, not so many.

[Naruto1996]

I am pretty excited to further explore Superman as a father
I like the character of Jon Kent Lane
I like the son of superman

[Kuwagaton]

Since SMALLVILLE went for ten years, that seems more like stability than what the comics have given recently. So a comic based on the TV show can be just as official to some people as any other version of Clark Kent.

SUPERMAN ADVENTURES was based on the animated Superman. And when you look at the whole Timm-verse, that seems to have gone on for quite some time. And for many people this was their introduction to DC and a lot of readers still cling to that universe. So again stabllity.

The trouble with dragging in other mediums to discuss comic book implications is that the numbers are completely different. The lowest rated episode of the lowest rated season of Smallville had 1.84 million viewers. If one out of every 20 people who watched the show decided to read a Smallville comic, it would be a top five monthly seller. Yet Smallville (2003) debuted selling about 28k units, and Season 11 debuted selling 27k units, and both went downhill. And I do have to point out that in the 2003-2004 time frame, Loeb and Azzarello were smashing the charts with the mainline Superman. Of course DC Wikia and Comichron aren't gospel, but it's hard to imagine those numbers being far out of the ballpark given the commitment to reporting them.

It would be different if DC always only had one version of Superman. But they haven't for many years. There's always been many versions of Superman at the same time for the last couple of decades. So it seems wise to look at the sales and see which versions have gained enough readers then let those have their own existence.

Of course as readers we only have inferior sales data to work with, but is there anything you have seen to indicate supporting a concurrent version of a character who sells modestly like Superman?

It never made sense to me that DC didn't try to monopolize on the success of ALL-STAR SUPERMAN. They could have put out many more comics in that universe. Instead, they seemed to try and cherry pick a few elements from that run and implant them in the so-called mainstream run. But as soon as you do that, you take apart whatever made ALL-STAR have its own unique charm.

How is All-Star defined to you? In name, it's not a safe assumption that people would have stayed latched on. In keeping Morrison and/or Quitely, that would have proved very tough. You can't chain those guys, and unlike the Batman work there were no breakout characters.

[3DMaster]

A lot of people fear The Ultimate Marvel curse.

Such a thing is thought to exist?

Don't they mean the Jeph Loeb curse?

[victorsage]

DC was able to handle two "main" Supermen before, they can do so again. This isn't that challenging really. I just think some people have hurt feelings right now. IF they do this right, they can honestly set up a new standard that can last a few decades, so long as they respect both camps, and work accordingly.

[Tayswift]

DC was able to handle two "main" Supermen before, they can do so again. This isn't that challenging really. I just think some people have hurt feelings right now. IF they do this right, they can honestly set up a new standard that can last a few decades, so long as they respect both camps, and work accordingly.

DC barely keeping up with one superman lately

[victorsage]

DC barely keeping up with one superman lately

As I've said many times before I won't cry one crocodile tear if it turns out New 52 Superman is gone forever, and Post Crisis Superman becomes the standard bearer again. That said I do think their is preceident for them to have two Superman who are a main focus in the multi verse. Especially with one being older, and more seasoned. Those Kal-L/Kal-El stories worked back in the day, as did the "Mr. and Mrs. Superman" specials. You could do it honestly.

Once again, just to be clear though iF they don't and instead just make Post Crisis/Byrne's Superman the one true Superman again, well I won't be complaining.