Is War Games Good?

[sunofdarkchild]

War Games was just plain bad, and nearly all of my grievances on it centers around the way Stephanie Brown was treated. From the way she was portrayed as incredibly incompetent (what with Bruce firing her for it and all that), and to have the narrative repeatedly reinforce this assassination of her character, including by having her steal one of Bruce's files (because apparently, Bruce doesn't encrypt any of his classified files). As a result of this, she ends up initiating a bloody gangwar with dire consequences in Gotham, with all of it done in a misguided bid to 'prove' that she was worthy of being Robin. All of which would eventually lead to her unfortunate and premature demise.

The thing with that conceit is that it was actually the second time someone kicked off an event by stealing Batman's files in 3 years. In 2001 Ra's al Ghul launched Tower of Babel by stealing Batman's files on the JLA. It made sense, given his status as Batman's greatest non-psychotic villain and head of a worldwide terrorist organization. War Games expects us to believe that after that fiasco Batman still left his files so vulnerable that a teenage girl he makes a point of not trusting, who has never shown an aptitude for computers, and who the story tries to emphasize is an idiot, is able to do the exact same thing Ra's al Ghul did.

What the heck, Batman? Apple has better cybersecurity.

[JAG2045]

The thing with that conceit is that it was actually the second time someone kicked off an event by stealing Batman's files in 3 years. In 2001 Ra's al Ghul launched Tower of Babel by stealing Batman's files on the JLA. It made sense, given his status as Batman's greatest non-psychotic villain and head of a worldwide terrorist organization. War Games expects us to believe that after that fiasco Batman still left his files so vulnerable that a teenage girl he makes a point of not trusting, who has never shown an aptitude for computers, and who the story tries to emphasize is an idiot, is able to do the exact same thing Ra's al Ghul did.

What the heck, Batman? Apple has better cybersecurity.

I never even thought of that in relation to "Tower of Babel"!

IIRC doesn't it take Batman ages to work out its his plan as well - you think he would remember something like that!

[Carabas]

The thing with that conceit is that it was actually the second time someone kicked off an event by stealing Batman's files in 3 years. In 2001 Ra's al Ghul launched Tower of Babel by stealing Batman's files on the JLA. It made sense, given his status as Batman's greatest non-psychotic villain and head of a worldwide terrorist organization. War Games expects us to believe that after that fiasco Batman still left his files so vulnerable that a teenage girl he makes a point of not trusting, who has never shown an aptitude for computers, and who the story tries to emphasize is an idiot, is able to do the exact same thing Ra's al Ghul did.

What the heck, Batman? Apple has better cybersecurity.

Batman didn't learn the lesson. Just a year or so later Infinite Crisis was kicked off partly by Maxwell Lord hacking into Batman's personal Bat-spysatelite.

[darkseidpwns]

I still don't understand what happened, what was the plan? how did it kick off the war? how did Black Mask of all people end up on top? as for burying Steph, just why exactly? she was till that point not even a Batman character, just a long running Tim Drake character who was just beginning to know Cass. She only became a mainstream Batman character after War Games, so if the intent was to bury her then they effed up on that too.

[Carabas]

I still don't understand what happened, what was the plan? how did it kick off the war? how did Black Mask of all people end up on top? as for burying Steph, just why exactly? she was till that point not even a Batman character, just a long running Tim Drake character who was just beginning to know Cass. She only became a mainstream Batman character after War Games, so if the intent was to bury her then they effed up on that too.

Tim Drake is a Batman character, therefor all Tim Drake characters are Batman characters.
Steph's father was the Cluemaster, ancient Batman villain.

More importantly, probably, Steph was a Chuck Dixon character, and DC did not like Chuck Dixon around that period.

[darkseidpwns]

Tim Drake is a Batman character, therefor all Tim Drake characters are Batman characters.
Steph's father was the Cluemaster, ancient Batman villain.

More importantly, probably, Steph was a Chuck Dixon character.

I don't think it's that simple, would you consider Tiger from Grayson a Batman character too? Steph was never important to the Batman specific books before War Games and having a D-list loser of a father who became a Tim villain doesn't exactly help. The Dixon connection though I had completely overlooked but at the same time these guys never went out of their way to bury Bane who is also a Chuck Dixon character.

[Carabas]

I don't think it's that simple, would you consider Tiger from Grayson a Batman character too?

I would have had to have read Grayson, or at least have had heard of this Tiger character to answer that.

Steph was never important to the Batman specific books before War Games and having a D-list loser of a father who became a Tim villain doesn't exactly help. The Dixon connection though I had completely overlooked but at the same time these guys never went out of their way to bury Bane who is also a Chuck Dixon character.

Yeah, but Bane was popular. And quite a lot of Dixon creations were being killed off (mostly villains).

And really, it's very simple.
It's an editorially mandated event that the writers are not invested in. And IIRC it mostly wasn't even written by Batman writers.
The purpose of the event was tated as getting rid of Batman's status as an urban legend in Gotham, making it clear once and for all that he really exists.

And of course a death was required, so they looked for a periferal character that was not that popular, wasn't used a lot, and probably wouldn't be missed very much.
And they chose poorly because fan revolt made them bring her back.

[godisawesome]

I would have had to have read Grayson, or at least have had heard of this Tiger character to answer that.


Yeah, but Bane was popular. And quite a lot of Dixon creations were being killed off (mostly villains).

And really, it's very simple.
It's an editorially mandated event that the writers are not invested in. And IIRC it mostly wasn't even written by Batman writers.
The purpose of the event was tated as getting rid of Batman's status as an urban legend in Gotham, making it clear once and for all that he really exists.

And of course a death was required, so they looked for a periferal character that was not that popular, wasn't used a lot, and probably wouldn't be missed very much.
And they chose poorly because fan revolt made them bring her back.

Not to mention all of Bludhaven.

I do think that you can view War Games as a kind of weird transitional Batfamily crossover. It existed in that weird space between the Golden Age of the O'Neill and Dixon days and the Golden Age of Morrison, Dini, and Snyder that came a few years later. A lot of the stuff around Identity Crisis and One Year Later had some weirdness attached to it that seemed to be trying to set up a new status quo for Batman that few people liked; we had War Games, Evil Cassandra Cain, the destruction of Bludhaven, and a lot of other stuff that smelt like Bateditorial was trying some things that just never took.

I will say it says something about War Games that the crossover so poorly handled Steph and Leslie's exits that no one payed any attention to poor Orpheus, which is kind of darkly hilarious considering his death fit the "black guy dies first" trope so hard.

[heyevaxx]

...The only good thing about the whole debacle was the activism that sprung up in the wake of it, namely in the form of Girl-Wonder.org and a few other sites, all of which served as a catalyst for me (and many other young women), as it made me aware of how just how badly women and girls are treated in comics. It also made me hyper vigilant to critiquing portrayals of women in said medium, and to advocate for them to be written well....

...It's an editorially mandated event that the writers are not invested in. And IIRC it mostly wasn't even written by Batman writers...

...A lot of the stuff around Identity Crisis and One Year Later had some weirdness attached to it that seemed to be trying to set up a new status quo for Batman that few people liked; we had War Games, Evil Cassandra Cain, the destruction of Bludhaven, and a lot of other stuff that smelt like Bateditorial was trying some things that just never took....

Thanks for a lot of really great posts, this thread has been excellent.

For me, dumping Steph and Leslie plus Brubaker leaving at WG's end marked the start of a bad phase in comics. It culminated with Batgirl's cancellation and turning Cass evil. Things improved a little with Steph as Batgirl but Cass never really came back after her retcon.

It wasn't until BRE that I had my 3 favorites back in canon and pretty much back in character. I'm very excited about the Rebirth Detective Comics.

[Coco Loco]

War Games/ Crimes was IMO the nadir of Batman crossovers. It's a classic example of an "Idiot Plot", a story that only works if the characters are total morons. Everything from no one recognizing Black Mask in a hastily-adopted disguise to Batman being suicidal at the end because reasons felt slapped together. The story devotes an insane amount of space to Tarantula even though you could take her completely out of the story without changing it at all. And the stuff with Spoiler - worst tacked-on death scene ever.

The notion of thinning out the bloated supporting cast for the Batman books was an okay one, but the way they went about it was just crazy stupid.

[JAG2045]

Not to mention all of Bludhaven.

I do think that you can view War Games as a kind of weird transitional Batfamily crossover. It existed in that weird space between the Golden Age of the O'Neill and Dixon days and the Golden Age of Morrison, Dini, and Snyder that came a few years later. A lot of the stuff around Identity Crisis and One Year Later had some weirdness attached to it that seemed to be trying to set up a new status quo for Batman that few people liked; we had War Games, Evil Cassandra Cain, the destruction of Bludhaven, and a lot of other stuff that smelt like Bateditorial was trying some things that just never took.

Its weird also because after WG/WC we got Infinite Crisis/OYL which reset a few of the 2000's era points (Gordon & Bullock back/Aikens fired, the Bat signal returns & Batman goes back to being an urban legend)

[Harpsikord]

Objectively? No. No, War Games is not good at all. There were certain things about it that could have been good in execution - like Bruce relying too heavily on himself despite having so many characters that he could depend on when it comes to his silly contingency plans, and... well, I guess that's the only thing I can think of off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's more. There has to be, right? War Games, at it's base, was flawed, though. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, there were two things writers were told. There would be a gang war, and a certain character would be die. The writers actively objected to this, even though we didn't find out til later. Not only was it seeded in the fact that it existed only for Stephanie Brown to die, but it was a very bland plot. It was, frankly, a plot that would have otherwise been dealt with in the main Batman title alone - without the tacked on death scenes.

The writing all over the crossover was sloppy and inconsistent, and there were even parts that were good. The death scene, tacked on as it was, was actually something that I can appreciate because it's a throw back to Stephanie's best history beats and shows Bruce at his best and most caring. But it doesn't change the fact that she was a sixteen year old girl who was killed in a way that called back to the Killing Joke, sexual overtones and all. It doesn't change the fact that she was brutally tortured by the Black Mask. It doesn't change the fact that there was an edict that said to get rid of Tim Drake as Robin, and let Stephanie Brown take over for... what... a month? Two? Just so she could be fired for making one lousy mistake after trying her hardest to get where she eventually got to.

I understand that Batman's supporting cast might have been too large, but here's the thing. There were better ways to cut some corners than this - like, say, writing a character out or just not writing about them at all and leaving their presence hanging in the distance. But instead of doing that, because of a vendetta that DC had against Chuck Dixon, they decided to kill Stephanie off in the most gruesome manner that they could think of. They basically forced this on their writers. It was horrific and it was awful. The thing with just writing characters out though is that, as crucial a character as Steph was to Tim, they couldn't have done that without killing her or doing something drastic to her. And it wouldn't have gotten the point across that things were as bad as they were between DC and Dixon.

They did, after all, nuke a whole city because of their vendetta against Chuck Dixon.

Honestly, the best thing to come out of War Games didn't happen until Stephanie got her own run as Batgirl. A chance for her to be great, on her own, driven by the idea that she needed to redeem herself for her mistakes.

[Dataweaver]

I would argue that Stephanie's run as Batgirl didn't come out of War Games so much as it was part of a backlash against it.

[Harpsikord]

That's probably a better way to put it - still one of the only good things to come as a response.

[zep81]

The original story was released in 5 tpbs

War Drums DETECTIVE COMICS #790-796 and ROBIN #126-128
War Games 1 BATMAN: THE 12-CENT ADVENTURE, DETECTIVE COMICS #797, BATMAN #631, BATMAN: LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT #182, NIGHTWING #96, BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS #56, ROBIN #129, BATGIRL #55 and CATWOMAN #34
War Games 2 DETECTIVE COMICS #798, BATMAN: LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT #183, NIGHTWING #97, BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS #57, ROBIN #130, BATGIRL #56, CATWOMAN #35 and BATMAN #632.
War Games 3 BATMAN #633, BATGIRL #57, CATWOMAN #36, ROBIN #131, BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS #58
War Crimes BATMAN #643-644, DETECTIVE COMICS #809-810, and material from BATMAN ALLIES SECRET FILES 2005 and BATMAN VILLAINS SECRET FILES 2005

DC have 2 updated volumes planned for the crossover.

Vol 1 (came out in November) contains Batgirl 53,55, Batman 631, Batman the 12c Adventure, Batman Legends of The Dark Knight 182, Gotham Knights 56, Catwoman 34, Detective Comics 790-797, Nightwing 96, Robin 126-129 & Solo 10

Vol 2 (due out in June) has been solicited to include Batgirl #56-57, Batman #632-634, #643-644, Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #183-184, Batman: Gotham Knights #57-58, Catwoman #35-36, Detective #798-800, #809-810, Nightwing #97-98, Robin #130-131

However at present the new volume 2 doesn't say anything about BATMAN ALLIES SECRET FILES 2005 and BATMAN VILLAINS SECRET FILES 2005 but there's a chance the solicits could change/be wrong when the book is actually released (as has happened with a few DC solicits recently)

Hope that helps!

I might get War Games at some point down the line. Anyone know if the two bolded are in the new TPB's, or would i have to get them separate (are they important)?