Rebirth...?

[SicariiDC]

Ok, so I'm late as hell and playing catch up, but hopefully I will be up to date on the batman canon by June...when rebirth happens right?

Can I get t some newbie insight? Is this a new 52 type reboot?

And after its launch I wanna subscribe to
Batman
All star Batman
'Tec
??? Anything else good looking?
Is Gotham Central or any of those police jawns worth reading? I kinda like that concept

[JBatmanFan05]

Is this a new 52 type reboot?

Not for Batman, definitely not for Batman. It's a continuation of New 52 Batman, where I bet pretty much nothing changes.

[The Lucky One]

From what we know so far, Rebirth is not going to wreak major changes on continuity like Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Flashpoint, etc. Rather, it's more of a philosophical shift on the part of the writers and editors, where they're making an effort to embrace the concept of legacy (i.e., remembering they have characters who weren't created in the Silver Age or the '00s). But that will probably play out different ways in different corners of the DCU -- for instance, it looks like the pre-Flashpoint Superman will be taking over as the "main" Superman in that line. There've been hints about the real JSA returning, and the classic Teen Titans remembering that they once knew each other.

As JBF05 noted, it may not affect Batman's continuity much, though you see the underlying philosophy in things like a book devoted to prominent '90s/'00s characters Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, and Cassandra Cain.

[heyevaxx]

...like a book devoted to prominent '90s/'00s characters Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, and Cassandra Cain.

Don't forget Jean-Paul Valley as Azrael!

In addition to maintaining New52 continuity, Rebirth looks like it's a DC-wide pivot for each title's story. E.g. Babsgirl goes off to China to learn and grow, Dick comes back to Nightwing, a new Birds of Prey forms, big Superman changes are brewing, etc. Each of these things could take place one at a time without Rebirth but having them all happen around the same time contributes to the rebirth-iness of the event.

Overall, Rebirth kinda looks like a refutation of Dan DiDio's stewardship since he joined in early 2002 as the editorial VP.

Dan digs the Silver Age characters, doesn't like character proliferation, and he only wanted one toon per hero title in continuity. E.g. getting rid of Cass Cain and Steph (twice!) and getting Babs back in the Batgirl suit.

But DC monthly sales seem to have tanked, sometimes just running 1/2 of Marvel's. Some of this can be attributed to the MCU but Nolan's Batman movies were all during Dan's tenure so movie business can't be all to blame.

I wonder if we're seeing the passing of the torch to Geoff Johns? I.e. if Rebirth goes well, Dan segues into a made up role like "editor at large" or "senior creative advisor" but he'd lose his editorial veto power.

Diane Nelson is Dan and Jim's boss and she's open about wanting more female characters and creators in DC. Dan has not done the greatest at this and lost his cool publicly when prodded about it at a con. But Diane just appointed Dan co-publisher in 2010. Hmm.

Is 6 years enough time to give an exec time to grow a company's product line? I don't know. But I imagine DC's sales numbers aren't lost of Diane and her bosses at Warner.

Business conjecture aside, I'm excited for Rebirth! Getting Cass and Steph as regulars again with Az floating around is a big win for me. And JTIV seems positively giddy to be writing 'tec so I think he'll do fine. I'm sad Selina lost her monthly but maybe she can guest spot for a while until the right moment hits for her return.

[My Two Cents]

and Batman discovers Jokers true identity

[SicariiDC]

Don't forget Jean-Paul Valley as Azrael n.

Which title is he gonna be in? 'Tec?

What are all the batman related/Gotham titles coming out? (Thanks, I'm new-er lol)

[GigiFusc]

Don't forget Jean-Paul Valley as Azrael!

In addition to maintaining New52 continuity, Rebirth looks like it's a DC-wide pivot for each title's story. E.g. Babsgirl goes off to China to learn and grow, Dick comes back to Nightwing, a new Birds of Prey forms, big Superman changes are brewing, etc. Each of these things could take place one at a time without Rebirth but having them all happen around the same time contributes to the rebirth-iness of the event.

Overall, Rebirth kinda looks like a refutation of Dan DiDio's stewardship since he joined in early 2002 as the editorial VP.

Dan digs the Silver Age characters, doesn't like character proliferation, and he only wanted one toon per hero title in continuity. E.g. getting rid of Cass Cain and Steph (twice!) and getting Babs back in the Batgirl suit.

But DC monthly sales seem to have tanked, sometimes just running 1/2 of Marvel's. Some of this can be attributed to the MCU but Nolan's Batman movies were all during Dan's tenure so movie business can't be all to blame.

I wonder if we're seeing the passing of the torch to Geoff Johns? I.e. if Rebirth goes well, Dan segues into a made up role like "editor at large" or "senior creative advisor" but he'd lose his editorial veto power.

Diane Nelson is Dan and Jim's boss and she's open about wanting more female characters and creators in DC. Dan has not done the greatest at this and lost his cool publicly when prodded about it at a con. But Diane just appointed Dan co-publisher in 2010. Hmm.

Is 6 years enough time to give an exec time to grow a company's product line? I don't know. But I imagine DC's sales numbers aren't lost of Diane and her bosses at Warner.

Business conjecture aside, I'm excited for Rebirth! Getting Cass and Steph as regulars again with Az floating around is a big win for me. And JTIV seems positively giddy to be writing 'tec so I think he'll do fine. I'm sad Selina lost her monthly but maybe she can guest spot for a while until the right moment hits for her return.

I have to admit that I don't know too much about the comic industry aside from the books I've followed in the past and the creators that wrote/drew them. But this is very interesting.

I have worked in the video games industry for just shy of 15 years and these types of problems are industry wide and frankly, they have torn the industry apart.

You asked if six years was enough to grow a companies product line - IMO, absolutely it is! SIX YEARS? God what i could do in six years and the DC millions behind me.

Seriously though - I have long preached that the entertainment industries are being destroyed by people at the very top who simply shouldn't be there. In the games industry, I speak from experience. But the signs are very similar.

To answer your question with another question - how difficult is it to hire talented people, give them a bit of cash to come up with a great idea and then back that idea with the wads of cash and resources that you have at your disposal?

I'd say it's not that hard. But the problem is one of politics - too many chefs, not many people with their fingers in the pie, too many people making their own demands with their own agenda's.

//Jaded glasses off.

Now that I've let that out, I'm happy to read more of people's insights into the comic book industry - as i said, I'm not that up on it.

[heyevaxx]

Which title is he gonna be in? 'Tec?

Yes, Jean-Paul Valley will be in the new Rebirth Detective Comics, at least in the first new issue.

JTIV has shown himself to be a big supporter of the 90s/00s pre52 characters that got left behind or changed a lot post-52. So we get Cass and Steph, and Tim who hasn't fared well in the new52. And we get back the original Azrael! Good times, good times.

I'm thrilled at this about face even though it's taken a couple of years from Batman #28 14.05.28 when Steph got a sneak preview on till now. Thanks DC!

What are all the batman related/Gotham titles coming out? (Thanks, I'm new-er lol)

Sure, here's a list of the main Batman titles. There's plenty more including Robin titles featuring Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, and Damian Wayne. Plus, Barbara Gordon titles including Batgirl and the Birds of Prey. Also, Batman is in the Justice League which has a lot going on. But I'll keep it to pure Gotham titles with Batman.

16.04.13 Batman 051 LAST Snyder-Capullo Batman, ending Snyder's run as the lead Bat author. Though he'll have All Star Batman later.

16.05.11 Batman 052 by James Tynion IV, the last pre-Rebirth Batman. Snyder calls JTIV "my brother" so they're real tight IRL and they've worked on BE and BRE. JTIV will write the new Detective Comics so Batman 52 might be a god preview of the post Rebirth Gotham.

16.05.25 DC Universe Rebirth by Geoff Johns, the Chief Creative Officer at DC. Geoff is the over editor for the whole Rebirth event so it's his baby. This is a must read. Dan DiDio warned fans not to get spoiled about the contents of this issue since there's a big, big scene in it he calls "the single most controversial scene in his time at DC."

16.06.01 Rebirth Batman by Scott Snyder (outgoing) and Tom King (incoming). Tom has a great reputation so this should be good.

16.06.08 Detective Comics 934 by JTIV, a twice monthly title. He co-wrote the stories for Batman Eternal and Batman And Robin Eternal with Snyder. They're both really into some old characters like Cass Cain and Steph Brown. The new 'tec features Cass, Steph, Tim, Kate Kane as Batwoman working with Batman to train the teens. And it will have others mixed in over time. I'm so excited for this book!

16.06.15 Batman 001 by Tom King, twice a month. Notice that Bats gets a new number one but 'etc is back to it's high numbers at 934. DC is restarting all numbering at one *except* for the venerable Action Comics and Detective Comics which restart their numbering back at their formerly high values.

16.08.xx All Star Batman 001 by Scott Snyder, once a month. Scott isn't leaving! He's got a new monthly that is in continuity and features Batman on the road with a rogues gallery of baddies.

[heyevaxx]

I'd say it's not that hard. But the problem is one of politics - too many chefs, not many people with their fingers in the pie, too many people making their own demands with their own agenda's.

Good point on the too many chefs issue!

What about DC comics? Bleeding Cool's power list makes the observation that DC's co-publisher, Dan DiDio, is very hands on:

The Bleeding Cool Top 100 Power List 2015 #2: Dan DiDio
...he has become incredibly hands on, micro-managing and changing whatever he can to find what works. Even during the Thanksgiving holidays, creators were finding themselves hired and fired, at least one abandoning dinner to work on a cover that was needed right then. ... Dan DiDio has far more of the creative power and influence of the company concentrated in one person. For better or worse, it’s DiDio Comics.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/12/...-2015-4-to-2/#!

This isn't the only source about excessive putting of "fingers in the pie" so to speak. For years fan favorites (at least to some) Cass Cain and Stephanie Brown were banned from use. It was nuts. Some art was done meaning to be Stephanie and it had to be recolored since she was persona non grata at the time.

I only think we got Cass Cain back because Mark Doyle joined as the Batman group editor. Right after he joined, Stephanie Brown had a cameo in Batman and then she returned completely in Batman Eternal. In the next weekly, Batman and Robin Eternal, Cassandra Cain returned. Is this coincidence or did Mark pivot DC?

One possible explanation that jives with reports of Dan being a micro-manager is that Doyle made his being the "true" editor of the Batman titles a key requirement for taking the job. He didn't want to be the "editor in name only" (EINO?) with DiDio still actively vetoing or pushing this or that in Batman books.

When Doyle was announced at the Bat group editor, Scott Snyder tweeted lots of praise and was very positive. Now this could have simply been marketing or it could have been sincere. Maybe Scott had talked with Mark before and said "I'd love for you to come to DC but Dan runs the Bat group with a strong hand and I've been stopped from using characters for my stories on several occasions."

So Mark could have been warned, negotiated accordingly, and Scott was genuinely thrilled to get a real editor who would let him create the way he wanted. This is just conjecture based on various statements and opinions. But it's sorta Occam's Razor - simple, not complicated, and believable.

No matter: what I most care about is the return of some fave characters of mine (Cass, Steph, JPV) and stories about them that I already like (BRE!). Putting these faves into a new Rebirth book is just more than I'd ever hoped for. So thanks to Scott, JTIV, Doyle, DC, and, yes, thanks even to Dan DiDio!

[SicariiDC]

Yes, Jean-Paul Valley will be in the new Rebirth Detective Comics, at least in the first new issue.

JTIV has shown himself to be a big supporter of the 90s/00s pre52 characters that got left behind or changed a lot post-52. So we get Cass and Steph, and Tim who hasn't fared well in the new52. And we get back the original Azrael! Good times, good times.

I'm thrilled at this about face even though it's taken a couple of years from Batman #28 14.05.28 when Steph got a sneak preview on till now. Thanks DC!


Sure, here's a list of the main Batman titles. There's plenty more including Robin titles featuring Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, and Damian Wayne. Plus, Barbara Gordon titles including Batgirl and the Birds of Prey. Also, Batman is in the Justice League which has a lot going on. But I'll keep it to pure Gotham titles with Batman.

16.04.13 Batman 051 LAST Snyder-Capullo Batman, ending Snyder's run as the lead Bat author. Though he'll have All Star Batman later.

16.05.11 Batman 052 by James Tynion IV, the last pre-Rebirth Batman. Snyder calls JTIV "my brother" so they're real tight IRL and they've worked on BE and BRE. JTIV will write the new Detective Comics so Batman 52 might be a god preview of the post Rebirth Gotham.

16.05.25 DC Universe Rebirth by Geoff Johns, the Chief Creative Officer at DC. Geoff is the over editor for the whole Rebirth event so it's his baby. This is a must read. Dan DiDio warned fans not to get spoiled about the contents of this issue since there's a big, big scene in it he calls "the single most controversial scene in his time at DC."

16.06.01 Rebirth Batman by Scott Snyder (outgoing) and Tom King (incoming). Tom has a great reputation so this should be good.

16.06.08 Detective Comics 934 by JTIV, a twice monthly title. He co-wrote the stories for Batman Eternal and Batman And Robin Eternal with Snyder. They're both really into some old characters like Cass Cain and Steph Brown. The new 'tec features Cass, Steph, Tim, Kate Kane as Batwoman working with Batman to train the teens. And it will have others mixed in over time. I'm so excited for this book!

16.06.15 Batman 001 by Tom King, twice a month. Notice that Bats gets a new number one but 'etc is back to it's high numbers at 934. DC is restarting all numbering at one *except* for the venerable Action Comics and Detective Comics which restart their numbering back at their formerly high values.

16.08.xx All Star Batman 001 by Scott Snyder, once a month. Scott isn't leaving! He's got a new monthly that is in continuity and features Batman on the road with a rogues gallery of baddies.

Thank u so much for this breakdown.

I just started NML, then hush, war games, and the Morrison run. Then to the Snyder run...then I'll be up to date. I got a few months to cram lmfaooo

[Kingcrimsonprog]

Thank u so much for this breakdown.

I just started NML, then hush, war games, and the Morrison run. Then to the Snyder run...then I'll be up to date. I got a few months to cram lmfaooo

You should also read Under The Red Hood and Murderer/Fugitive if you're doing it that way.

[SicariiDC]

You should also read Under The Red Hood and Murderer/Fugitive if you're doing it that way.

Yeah I been looking at red hood. I been watched the movie to death tho. Does the book have more story? It was def on my list, almost bought it yesterday actually. And I was under the impression murder/fugitive was wack. I only got til June so I'm picking and choosing what seems to speak to me and making a list to go back on...I'd love to discuss more, but don't wanna derail the thread. Pm me if u want

[SicariiDC]

You should also read Under The Red Hood and Murderer/Fugitive if you're doing it that way.

King crimson is fire btw. I've sampled them a few times

[GigiFusc]

Good point on the too many chefs issue!

What about DC comics? Bleeding Cool's power list makes the observation that DC's co-publisher, Dan DiDio, is very hands on:

The Bleeding Cool Top 100 Power List 2015 #2: Dan DiDio
...he has become incredibly hands on, micro-managing and changing whatever he can to find what works. Even during the Thanksgiving holidays, creators were finding themselves hired and fired, at least one abandoning dinner to work on a cover that was needed right then. ... Dan DiDio has far more of the creative power and influence of the company concentrated in one person. For better or worse, it’s DiDio Comics.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/12/...-2015-4-to-2/#!

This isn't the only source about excessive putting of "fingers in the pie" so to speak. For years fan favorites (at least to some) Cass Cain and Stephanie Brown were banned from use. It was nuts. Some art was done meaning to be Stephanie and it had to be recolored since she was persona non grata at the time.

I only think we got Cass Cain back because Mark Doyle joined as the Batman group editor. Right after he joined, Stephanie Brown had a cameo in Batman and then she returned completely in Batman Eternal. In the next weekly, Batman and Robin Eternal, Cassandra Cain returned. Is this coincidence or did Mark pivot DC?

One possible explanation that jives with reports of Dan being a micro-manager is that Doyle made his being the "true" editor of the Batman titles a key requirement for taking the job. He didn't want to be the "editor in name only" (EINO?) with DiDio still actively vetoing or pushing this or that in Batman books.

When Doyle was announced at the Bat group editor, Scott Snyder tweeted lots of praise and was very positive. Now this could have simply been marketing or it could have been sincere. Maybe Scott had talked with Mark before and said "I'd love for you to come to DC but Dan runs the Bat group with a strong hand and I've been stopped from using characters for my stories on several occasions."

So Mark could have been warned, negotiated accordingly, and Scott was genuinely thrilled to get a real editor who would let him create the way he wanted. This is just conjecture based on various statements and opinions. But it's sorta Occam's Razor - simple, not complicated, and believable.

No matter: what I most care about is the return of some fave characters of mine (Cass, Steph, JPV) and stories about them that I already like (BRE!). Putting these faves into a new Rebirth book is just more than I'd ever hoped for. So thanks to Scott, JTIV, Doyle, DC, and, yes, thanks even to Dan DiDio!

Thanks for that. Sounds very similar to games.

[JBatmanFan05]

16.08.xx All Star Batman 001 by Scott Snyder, once a month. Scott isn't leaving! He's got a new monthly that is in continuity and features Batman on the road with a rogues gallery of baddies.

Snyder is kinda a co-lead Batman author in the sense that he said any villain designs/redesigns he does will be used in the other books. I'm not sure Snyder said every issue/arc would be Batman on the road...but definitely the first arc is a road trip with Two-Face.