Taking a Stand: I Support Janelle Asselin's critique of Teen Titans #1

[Overhazard]

She shouldn't have been harassed the way she was, to say it was uncalled for is an understatement. That being said, I didn't entirely agree with her. I didn't think cassie's breasts were bigger, I just thought rocafort made her waist smaller and her chest looked bigger in comparison. The cover also didn't look very dynamic, they're just hanging out, they don't look like they're rushing into battle or anything like that. They don't even look like a team, it looks like a superpowered ambecrombie ad.

[Ghostwise]

Appealing to a greater demographic, making itself attractive and friendlier to female readers, people of color, people of the LGBT community could expand the audience, increase readership and allow the book to survive in the current marketplace.

Straight white dudes who want to read super-hero stuff without being embarrassed by the demeaning art are also a significant demo.

[Doc Sonic]

She shouldn't have been harassed the way she was, to say it was uncalled for is an understatement. That being said, I didn't entirely agree with her. I didn't think cassie's breasts were bigger, I just thought rocafort made her waist smaller and her chest looked bigger in comparison. The cover also didn't look very dynamic, they're just hanging out, they don't look like they're rushing into battle or anything like that. They don't even look like a team, it looks like a superpowered ambecrombie ad.

But that's besides the point. The cover is not 'out of control' sexually objectifying, rather it is standard variety sexually objectifying.. it's business as usual... i.e. a book that is directed toward the ever shrinking straight white guy demographic. Titans should among DC's flagship titles... it has the largest character exposure to a more diversified audience. And the fact that they decided to go standard portaging procedure with the cover is just a slap in the face, underscoring the message that these comics are for boys and for boys only.

Straight white dudes who want to read super-hero stuff without being embarrassed by the demeaning art are also a significant demo.

lol. I guess there's that too.

[galaxygnome]

It doesn't matter what anyone's personal opinion is. There's no reason to nitpick over what you liked or didn't like about the cover, what you liked or didn't like about how Cassie was drawn (ew). If you're on this board, you are most likely not the perspective Asselin was writing to analyze.

Her point was that DC had an opportunity to seize a pre-existing market of teenage girl teen titans fans and instead they continued to market to... well, I imagine, some of the people we are seeing in this thread. It's not about your personal interests in how covers or female bodies can/should look (ew). It doesn't really matter what anyone here thinks, it's what would a teenage girl think? what would attract her to this cover? and the answer Asselin proposes is "Nothing."

It's about what kind of cover would have been appealing to girls that were fans of the show. And this cover was not made for those girls. It was made to tittilate. While yes, some teenagers develop early and that has its own kind of humiliation, imo as a former teenage girl, a cover of a womanly-looking girl in a tube top spandex body suit with breasts defying the laws of physics (yo tube tops don't work that way, no matter how big you are) would not attract me or help me work through that humiliation, it'd only make me feel more self conscious about myself... thus avoiding it when I already feel uncomfortable with the genre. The cover deviated totally from what could have been an entirely new comics audience, instead servicing the same old audience it already has in its pocket. Beyond Wonder Girl, as Asselin notes, there was very little about the cover that would be exciting or inviting for a potential new comics fan (it doesn't give the feel of a team, it is cluttered visually, there wasn't really a coherent narrative to draw the viewer in, some of the most interesting and different characters were pushed to the back...).

It is really telling that people would rather debate ONE of Asselin's points, the point about a sexualized portrayal of a teenage body, than the actual content of what she is saying - a critique of DC's marketing direction. It doesn't matter of the cover is "business as usual." If there is any book DC could be trying harder on, it's one with so ripe of a potential market.

[Star-Lord]

I just looked at that cover and it seemed pretty tame looking. It seems things like this draw extra attention in comics if it was music or a movie I don't even think people would pay attention.

People would pay attention if it was a video game too. There's something about video games and comics that brings out the worst in people.

[Pinsir]

I just looked at that cover and it seemed pretty tame looking. It seems things like this draw extra attention in comics if it was music or a movie I don't even think people would pay attention.

It is a tame cover and I admit to liking it myself (though I prefer the modified version), as was Asselin's criticism. However the anti-feminists have a history of taking mild criticisms and over reacting. Attempting to break into a bank account is not a rational response to a critic to a comic book cover for a series that hasn't been good since the 80's.

[Doc Sonic]

It doesn't matter what anyone's personal opinion is. There's no reason to nitpick over what you liked or didn't like about the cover, what you liked or didn't like about how Cassie was drawn (ew). If you're on this board, you are most likely not the perspective Asselin was writing to analyze.
Her point was that DC had an opportunity to seize a pre-existing market of teenage girl teen titans fans and instead they continued to market to... well, I imagine, some of the people we are seeing in this thread. It's not about your personal interests in how covers or female bodies can/should look (ew). It doesn't really matter what anyone here thinks, it's what would a teenage girl think? what would attract her to this cover? and the answer Asselin proposes is "Nothing."
It's about what kind of cover would have been appealing to girls that were fans of the show. And this cover was not made for those girls. It was made to tittilate. While yes, some teenagers develop early and that has its own kind of humiliation, imo as a former teenage girl, a cover of a womanly-looking girl in a tube top spandex body suit with breasts defying the laws of physics (yo tube tops don't work that way, no matter how big you are) would not attract me or help me work through that humiliation, it'd only make me feel more self conscious about myself... thus avoiding it when I already feel uncomfortable with the genre. The cover deviated totally from what could have been an entirely new comics audience, instead servicing the same old audience it already has in its pocket. Beyond Wonder Girl, as Asselin notes, there was very little about the cover that would be exciting or inviting for a potential new comics fan (it doesn't give the feel of a team, it is cluttered visually, there wasn't really a coherent narrative to draw the viewer in, some of the most interesting and different characters were pushed to the back...).
It is really telling that people would rather debate ONE of Asselin's points, the point about a sexualized portrayal of a teenage body, than the actual content of what she is saying - a critique of DC's marketing direction. It doesn't matter of the cover is "business as usual." If there is any book DC could be trying harder on, it's one with so ripe of a potential market.

yes, exactly. I 100% agree.
And white male comic fans (like myself) need to be just as upset because attaining a greater female readership is absolutely essential to the industry's ongoing survival.

[Charles RB]

Those are two of her points, yes, but far from her only ones. Hell, I wouldn't even call them her most salient points.

The boobs certainly were the bit that got a lot of focus. She wanted to take all sex and attractiveness out of comics!, seemed to be the line a lot of people were taking. Because I guess more realistic breasts on a teenage character would be the death of all attractive people in all comics everywhere, there is nothing else you can do to make a character attractive except huge, partially exposed tits.

[Ghostwise]

People would pay attention if it was a video game too. There's something about video games and comics that brings out the worst in people.

And there is likewise a strong backlash building up in video games about objectifying crap and its effects on a/ sales and b/ cultural norms among video game enthusiasts.

The parallels between the recent incidents at CBR and the deluge of threats and hostile actions against Ms. Hepler at Bioware last years are numerous.

[Mr MajestiK]

It doesn't matter what anyone's personal opinion is. There's no reason to nitpick over what you liked or didn't like about the cover, what you liked or didn't like about how Cassie was drawn (ew). If you're on this board, you are most likely not the perspective Asselin was writing to analyze.

Her point was that DC had an opportunity to seize a pre-existing market of teenage girl teen titans fans and instead they continued to market to... well, I imagine, some of the people we are seeing in this thread. It's not about your personal interests in how covers or female bodies can/should look (ew). It doesn't really matter what anyone here thinks, it's what would a teenage girl think? what would attract her to this cover? and the answer Asselin proposes is "Nothing."

It's about what kind of cover would have been appealing to girls that were fans of the show. And this cover was not made for those girls. It was made to tittilate. While yes, some teenagers develop early and that has its own kind of humiliation, imo as a former teenage girl, a cover of a womanly-looking girl in a tube top spandex body suit with breasts defying the laws of physics (yo tube tops don't work that way, no matter how big you are) would not attract me or help me work through that humiliation, it'd only make me feel more self conscious about myself... thus avoiding it when I already feel uncomfortable with the genre. The cover deviated totally from what could have been an entirely new comics audience, instead servicing the same old audience it already has in its pocket. Beyond Wonder Girl, as Asselin notes, there was very little about the cover that would be exciting or inviting for a potential new comics fan (it doesn't give the feel of a team, it is cluttered visually, there wasn't really a coherent narrative to draw the viewer in, some of the most interesting and different characters were pushed to the back...).

It is really telling that people would rather debate ONE of Asselin's points, the point about a sexualized portrayal of a teenage body, than the actual content of what she is saying - a critique of DC's marketing direction. It doesn't matter of the cover is "business as usual." If there is any book DC could be trying harder on, it's one with so ripe of a potential market.

One of the biggest issues I had with the DC52 reboot was the sad fact that books like Red Mask & The Outlaws and Catwoman both had depictions of women that were intensely oversexualized in depiction and character.

Lobdell's treatment of the Stafire character was atrocious to say the least and now with the cover of the soon to be released Teen Titans #1, it would appear that DC (and Marvel to a slightly lesser degree) are yet to come to terms with the fact that they really can't keep pandering to the same demographic that they've been catering to for decades.

The points raised by Janelle Asselin remain even more valid especially in light of the vile online attacks that were maliciously inflicted upon her.

As far as individual opinions on the subject are concerned, I'd like to believe that everyone's opinion matters in the long run especially as regards what lessons are to be learned from this debacle and how each of us choose to conduct ourselves and treat others regardless of the inevitable differences in opinion that usually inform the human condition.

Peace.

[Kevin Davis]

The kind of depictions that were addressed in Ms. Asselin's column are actually much more recent. The demeaning depictions that seem based on never having seen a woman outside of commercial porn emerge during the 1990s. Prior to that most female characters are drawn and framed in an idealised manner, but compared to later practices it is not nakedly exploitative. 1980s Susan Richards has a perfect body and an impossibly tight costume, but compared to drawing of teenage girls with very large breast implants that'll get exposed if they breathe hard that was downright respectful.

That would make sense. It's not you who gets treated like a sexual object. The situation exists to your benefit - you've explained that to us. The question is whether your stance will remain "I like it, and screw everyone else" or if you will listen to the people who are harmed by these depictions. "I have no problem with things that harm people who aren't me" isn't a hugely valuable statement, TBH.

As far as I can tell, no one was actually harmed because of the way Wonder Girl was drawn, so I personally don't see an intrinsic problem with it. Some might say that that sort of portrayal of a female is demeaning, but I think that's a pretty broad stroke because not everyone feels demeaned by the same things. Going strictly by anatomical inaccuracies, you could make the same argument for virtually every male character with impossibly drawn muscles (yeah, guys can get self-conscious too). Some might see these larger-than-life depictions as demeaning, but others might see them as empowering or even inspiring. I'm not saying that one is right and the other's wrong, but I don't think it's right to dismiss any of those opinions. Obviously, an artist can't cater to everyone's views, so it seems to me that the best recourse is to accept or reject an artist's work as your personal tastes allow. Basically, if you don't like it, don't read it. But there's no need to demand that something changes or to call it harmful and demeaning simply because it doesn't fit into your personal tastes.

As far as "I like it, and screw everyone else" goes, isn't that the nature of a personal opinion? If I like a particular book, is it really my problem what anyone else thinks of it? The wording of "screw everyone else" is harsh, but is it really that inaccurate? If you pick up a book for the first time and enjoy it, do you really take the time to consider everyone who might not enjoy it? Again, we're not talking about something that's causing anyone any physical harm, just drawn images that some people find distasteful. Anyone who doesn't like them is perfectly free to avoid them.

[dahllaz]

She shouldn't have been harassed the way she was, to say it was uncalled for is an understatement. That being said, I didn't entirely agree with her. I didn't think cassie's breasts were bigger, I just thought rocafort made her waist smaller and her chest looked bigger in comparison. The cover also didn't look very dynamic, they're just hanging out, they don't look like they're rushing into battle or anything like that. They don't even look like a team, it looks like a superpowered ambecrombie ad.

Emphasis mine.
Because this was one of the big points of her critique. She still would have had issues with how Wonder Girl was portrayed (me too!), but her main point was that this was a bad cover for a #1 issue. I'm pretty sure I remember her writing it would be a big difference if this was a #40something issue, versus the first issue of a re-launched title.

The series was doing bad enough that it was canceled - why keep doing the same old same old?

It also bothered me that an industry professional and his twitter followers were implying that she had no business daring to critique the cover, had no understanding of comics in general and the business specifically and hadn't she just made coffee at DC for a few months hurr hurr, and that she had obviously never been in a comic store.
It was really disapointing for me to read how he reacted to her article. Oh, not that he disagreed, but that because he disagreed that meant she had no knowledge or experience.

Was it as bad as the threats and hacking? No, of course not. But it's still pretty crappy and part of the culture that creates an atmosphere that is unwelcoming to women fans and professionals.
On the other hand, it was cool to see how many spoke out in support, so that balanced it out some.

[Michael P]

It also bothered me that an industry professional and his twitter followers were implying that she had no business daring to critique the cover, had no understanding of comics in general and the business specifically and hadn't she just made coffee at DC for a few months hurr hurr, and that she had obviously never been in a comic store.
It was really disapointing for me to read how he reacted to her article. Oh, not that he disagreed, but that because he disagreed that meant she had no knowledge or experience.

Seriously. This was someone who works in comics. Who works for DC, the same company she worked for. That this behavior was seen as anything other than a disgrace is a serious black mark on the comics community.

[CliffHanger2]

It is a tame cover and I admit to liking it myself (though I prefer the modified version), as was Asselin's criticism. However the anti-feminists have a history of taking mild criticisms and over reacting. Attempting to break into a bank account is not a rational response to a critic to a comic book cover for a series that hasn't been good since the 80's.

Yeah there's no excuse for what was done to her. I mean don't wholly agree with her stance but trying to hurt someone like that is just crazy.

[Ghostwise]

As far as I can tell, no one was actually harmed because of the way Wonder Girl was drawn

If you define "harm" by physical harm, then yes. However, that would be in absurdly bad faith so I don't think it is a worthwhile angle to explore.

As far as "I like it, and screw everyone else" goes, isn't that the nature of a personal opinion?

Misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia, antisemitism, etc. aren't "opinions". They are a cancer making my life, the life of most of my friends, and the life of most of Earth's population significantly worse than it should.

It has also considerably hurt the medium by giving the impression that comic books are primarily meant for sexually frustrated straight male nerds and that nobody else needs to apply. Stepping away from this perception is going to take years if not decades.

There certainly have been decades' worth of comics depicting African-American as childish superstitious imbeciles, gay men as unnaturally perverted predators, women as vapid sex objects existing for the gratification and service of men, Asians as cowardly scheming aliens, etc. This has been changing - though not always quite gracefully - and will continue to change, as the amount of people who protest "but this isn't *our* problem !" continues to diminish.