Taking a Stand: I Support Janelle Asselin's critique of Teen Titans #1

[Tonamelt]

I have mixed feelings about this...

Yeah, sure, the cover looks sexist, but...

Saying that "Natural breasts don't have that round shape" is kind of discriminatory. And then Janelle uses an artist's tutorial as a source, instead of an actual medical opinion or article.

Believe or not, I have seen teenager girls with that kind of body proportion, and saying they "are not natural" is actually rude IMO. Because they could, you know, have hormonal problems or something, or maybe that's the way they should be, because every human body is different, unless you are a genetic clone.

[Fatty Meats Five]

Frankly, I'm at a loss. The harassment and threats were terrible. People I admire spoke up and told people like me that, yes, we should stand up too. And all anyone needed to do was reset the community forums?

Is there a Phase 2 I'm not aware of?

[Cipher]

Frankly, I'm at a loss. The harassment and threats were terrible. People I admire spoke up and told people like me that, yes, we should stand up too. And all anyone needed to do was reset the community forums?

Is there a Phase 2 I'm not aware of?

More people being aware.

More people speaking up about what prevents them from buying (don't let anything fool you; DC does hate bad press)

More people voting with their wallets.

A slow-burn changing of the industry.

If right now we can at least work toward step one, that's something. It's not going to be a coordinated sea change. It just takes an increasing number of individuals deciding these trends aren't okay.

[Fatty Meats Five]

I'd venture that that's likely because women were more a part of that niche from its very inception in North America, and because the content of that field is broad enough to not be defined by one sexist tone.

Which is just proof that the same could happen for the Western comics industry in time if people actually commit to buying and producing less offensive content.

One thing to consider about anime is that people might shrug off the offensive elements because they are coming from a different culture. They could speak out, but would their concerns even reach the Japanese creators?

[Brave Sir Robin]

More people being aware.

More people speaking up about what prevents them from buying (don't let anything fool you; DC does hate bad press)

More people voting with their wallets.

A slow-burn changing of the industry.

If right now we can at least work toward step one, that's something. It's not going to be a coordinated sea change. It just takes an increasing number of individuals deciding these trends aren't okay.

So does this slow burn include looking at Self Righteous CBR and calling them out on ugliness? The event over the criticism of the Teen Titans cover reinforces just how primitive and ugly many comic fans are, what type of people this stuff appeals to at times, and just how ludicrous the art is that we have taken for granted.

But then I check out Comics AM, here on CBR, read The Guardian article about this controversy and comics in general, and find that they call out this web site for blithely posting rape scenes in a preview of Game of Thrones. Rape scenes open to anyone to see.

I find this deeply disturbing and a sign that we still have a way to go. While it is OK that we all beat our chests and point out the disgusting and scary misogyny in the comic culture as shown in the reaction to the article, we also need to look at the other things this culture shows as perfectly fine and celebrated as fiction to be consumed by the masses. While we don't want hate, we can see some very disturbing stuff as entertainment every day here.

[Mikekerr3]

I have mixed feelings about this...

Yeah, sure, the cover looks sexist, but...

Saying that "Natural breasts don't have that round shape" is kind of discriminatory. And then Janelle uses an artist's tutorial as a source, instead of an actual medical opinion or article.

Believe or not, I have seen teenager girls with that kind of body proportion, and saying they "are not natural" is actually rude IMO. Because they could, you know, have hormonal problems or something, or maybe that's the way they should be, because every human body is different, unless you are a genetic clone.

You have seen teenage girls with thighs thicker than there waists simultaneously with breast bigger than their heads? I really doubt that. Just the breasts might indicate hormone problems, but put together with the body it would take massive surgery

[thespianphryne]

So does this slow burn include looking at Self Righteous CBR and calling them out on ugliness? The event over the criticism of the Teen Titans cover reinforces just how primitive and ugly many comic fans are, what type of people this stuff appeals to at times, and just how ludicrous the art is that we have taken for granted.

But then I check out Comics AM, here on CBR, read The Guardian article about this controversy and comics in general, and find that they call out this web site for blithely posting rape scenes in a preview of Game of Thrones. Rape scenes open to anyone to see.

I find this deeply disturbing and a sign that we still have a way to go. While it is OK that we all beat our chests and point out the disgusting and scary misogyny in the comic culture as shown in the reaction to the article, we also need to look at the other things this culture shows as perfectly fine and celebrated as fiction to be consumed by the masses. While we don't want hate, we can see some very disturbing stuff as entertainment every day here.

I hate to step on your rhetoric but...Yes, that's what it includes.

I would write to the poster of the item where the problematic preview was, and to the site owner/Administrator. I would say why it's problematic. And what I would like to see done. Absolutely.

[Jonah Weiland]

So does this slow burn include looking at Self Righteous CBR and calling them out on ugliness? The event over the criticism of the Teen Titans cover reinforces just how primitive and ugly many comic fans are, what type of people this stuff appeals to at times, and just how ludicrous the art is that we have taken for granted.

But then I check out Comics AM, here on CBR, read The Guardian article about this controversy and comics in general, and find that they call out this web site for blithely posting rape scenes in a preview of Game of Thrones. Rape scenes open to anyone to see.

I find this deeply disturbing and a sign that we still have a way to go. While it is OK that we all beat our chests and point out the disgusting and scary misogyny in the comic culture as shown in the reaction to the article, we also need to look at the other things this culture shows as perfectly fine and celebrated as fiction to be consumed by the masses. While we don't want hate, we can see some very disturbing stuff as entertainment every day here.

While we’re veering off in to major thread drift here, I do want to address one point you made.

CBR did NOT blithely post the offensive pages from “Game of Thrones” published by Dynamite Entertainment. We deeply regret they were not caught before being posted online.

To properly understand what happened, I have to take you behind the scenes of how previews are posted on CBR. Generally speaking a publisher sends to a zip package of previews to a large group of sites for posting. At CBR, those packages get assigned to an editor who use our batch uploader to get them on the site. Once done, that editor checks their work – not just for accuracy, but for content – then the preview is published.

In the past we’ve never had any major problems with content sent to us from Dynamite and in the few instances where there has been mature content provided, they made it very clear and when we’ve felt the image were appropriate for publishing, we’ve always included a mature readers label. In this case, Dynamite did not include any warnings.

For our part, an editor new to CBR was assigned this task and the editor did not check the work once it was posted, nor did the supervising editor. This is very regrettable. All editors on staff have been spoken with following the release of these images. A mistake was made and I’m quite confident it won’t be made again.

While CBR does support mature readers content, these pages crossed the line and absolutely do not meet our standards of quality. The pages in question are offensive and the subject matter was handled in extremely poor taste. I apologize to anyone whom was offended by those pages.

We hate – absolutely hate – that they made it on CBR. I’m happy to report that within 15 minutes of it being pointed out to us on twitter, we removed the images and responded. We also immediately urged Dynamite to ask sites they sent that same package to take down those pages. Some did, some did not. Some thought they have, but the image still lives on their servers.

We have reviewed our system for posting previews to the site and will make sure it doesn’t happen again. It’s with deep regret they were posted in the first place.

[worstblogever]

It's alright to support criticism, especially when it's intelligent, detailed, and based in reality. Even if you don't agree with an opinion, they have a right to post it, you have a right to an rebuttal against it.


When you make those rebuttals personal, or threatening... that's where you're quite easily in the wrong. These are books, not even religious texts should be defended so vehemently, for goodness sake. If you can't make a counter-argument without going to those places, don't make one, please. Because you're not helping your "defense" of the material, whatsoever.

[king mob]

The other complaint (that Rocafort can't or won't draw anatomically correct human beings), I don't know what to tell you. It's a pretty common problem with artists in superhero books, and other than talking directly to him via social media to express concerns and maybe give him (and others with similar problems) food for thought about how he's portraying young women I don't know what you can do other than, again, voting with your wallet and buying books drawn by artists without that particular problem.

Here's a wee secret. A number of people drawing superhero comics have learned to draw from superhero comics and haven't expanded their CV beyond that. There's part of the problem.

[king mob]

And all this in my opinion IS COOL. IT'S FINE, IT'S FAIR--it's equality of the sexes. Women should not be ashamed of being just as sexually active/interested as men are but just don't anyone turn around and have the gull to tell me that there is not equality of sexual objectification of men and young teen boys with women and teen girls in the media because you're either a) full of it b) delusional or c)don't own a tv, internet connection, or get out much

Thank you

There is not equality of sexual objectification. The objectification of men in the way you describe (selling to women, or selling an image to other men) is recent history. The objectification of women, and increasingly young girls on the cusp of the age of consent is vast. You don't notice it, or choose not to notice it for your own reasons but to compare the both as equal is missing the problem.

I've said in this thread there's an issue with body image in men, but comparing the scale of male and female objectification in society by any standard will show you male objectification is the minority.

[king mob]

Yeah, sure, the cover looks sexist, but...

No, it is sexist.

Saying that "Natural breasts don't have that round shape" is kind of discriminatory. And then Janelle uses an artist's tutorial as a source, instead of an actual medical opinion or article.

Do you not think that as a woman she knows what breasts are like?

Believe or not, I have seen teenager girls with that kind of body proportion

For the 5439th time, they'd have paid good money for breasts like that because those are not how breasts work in the real world without some serious augmentation to fight gravity.

[king mob]

Those who can watch this will be interested in this programme being shown on BBC2 this Thursday.

Kirsty Wark explores examples of how women are assailed in public life. She asks if there is a new culture in which it is acceptable to refer to women in an offensive way.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode..._of_the_Sexes/

[Tonamelt]

No, it is sexist.

That's a matter of perspective. I say it looks sexist, but others may agree or disagree.

Do you not think that as a woman she knows what breasts are like?

Being a woman doesn't make her a medical autorithy on human anatomy, she was trying to pass her personal opinions as facts without medical evidence to support her claims (an artists' tutorial is not medical evidence).

For the 5439th time, they'd have paid good money for breasts like that because those are not how breasts work in the real world without some serious augmentation to fight gravity.

A comic book is not real life, should I complain about Superman's ability to fly, just because we, real men can't fly?

[t hedge coke]

A comic book is not real life, should I complain about Superman's ability to fly, just because we, real men can't fly?

When 17 yr old Superman and 94% of all other males in DC comics have gravity-defying sexual(ized) characteristics, maybe those'll be equivalent. Until then, I'm pretty sure just flying isn't a form of unnecessary sexual objectification.