Taking a Stand: I Support Janelle Asselin's critique of Teen Titans #1

[tcjohnson]

And I still want to know if that is a wee little door underneath Red Robin or not...

It looked like a door to me, but think it is supposed to be one of those light sensors that turn on lights along a pathway when it gets dark. If you look behind wonder girl you can see the light.

[Arvandor]

Frankly, even beyond concerns about sexism, it's just a fugly cover.

It is. And I say this as someone who usually appreciates cheesecake and I think some of Jannelle's criticisms (though not all) were off base. But I agree that is a bad cover.

Which is a shame. Rocafort can do and has done far better work. He should have stayed at Top Cow.

[Zero Hunter]

Is there really anything left to say about this topic that was not said in the over 70 pages of the previous threads? If there is I don't know what it could be. The same points are going to be made again and again.

[BumbleBecc]

I had intended to stay away from this thread because it will inevitably lead to subjects which are painful. A few points have been nagging at me, however.

Firstly, Janelle's critique. I believe it's fair, it's certainly nothing to cause the kind of monstrous attacks she received.
Is the representation of Wondergirl bad? Yes, to my mind it is, and no i don't feel that way because that is not my shape. (In addition there are other parts of the image that just don't work, but that has been the focal point of the rage.) No, i am not mortally offended by it, i am depressed though.

I'm depressed that objectification is still casually accepted.
I'm depressed that the non-modified version of the cover would be considered more desirable than the more realistic version.

But i'm most depressed that in 2014 after all these years of struggle an 'uppity woman' daring to express perfectly reasonable views can be subjected to the abuse, hatred, and threats that she was. That her identity, her phone number and address would be exposed to attempt to terrify her into acquiescence. Perhaps even for someone to act on the kind of behaviour that the mob was encouraging, is horrific beyond imagination.

I'm depressed that there are people so insecure and so desperate to cling onto their privilege that they will attack even the suggestion of dissent.

I'm depressed that despite what has been gained we've entered a world in which the resentment engendered by this progress, combined with the unaccountabilty and anonymity the internet affords means that hatred and rage is directed at us more than ever.

I could never feel safe posting my name and location online. I think sometimes it's hard for men to understand the levels of vulnerability many of us feel, or the levels of intimidation many of us experience almost routinely.
I don't mean that as a criticism, i hope you never do experience it. I just wish we didn't have to either.


I would like to think that there are some things on which we could all agree concerning this:
1) Regardless of whether you agree with her opinion or not... she is entitled to it, and to express it.
2) That no one should be subjected to the kind of abuse to which she was subjected.

[heretic]

Speaking as one who had not even noticed the argument before the boards were rebooted over it, I must way that.

A) Asselin is correct, the art is underwealming on numerous levels. For the record I still think that were it not for the spine-warping porn poses and inhuman proportions observers would be more willing to swallow the generic cuteness and skimpy getups foisted on superheroines.

(one challenge for the artistically inclined. Keep the outfit on the cover in question but make WG look like a teenage athlete)

B) Disagreement is one thing, threats and stalking quite another.

[Wild_1]

Thrilled that this has stayed firmly on the trolly tracks.

Thought her critique was very interesting and timely. I like to be exposed to many varying opinions (not that I hold a contrary opinion on this issue). Helps me grow as a person and develop empathy.

I'm glad this issue is seeing the light of day and leading to changes like we're seeing here. I'm also hopeful that it may be uncomfortable for the perpetrators of such awful behaviour.

[Jonah Weiland]

I had intended to stay away from this thread because it will inevitably lead to subjects which are painful. A few points have been nagging at me, however.

Firstly, Janelle's critique. I believe it's fair, it's certainly nothing to cause the kind of monstrous attacks she received.
Is the representation of Wondergirl bad? Yes, to my mind it is, and no i don't feel that way because that is not my shape. (In addition there are other parts of the image that just don't work, but that has been the focal point of the rage.) No, i am not mortally offended by it, i am depressed though.

I'm depressed that objectification is still casually accepted.
I'm depressed that the non-modified version of the cover would be considered more desirable than the more realistic version.

But i'm most depressed that in 2014 after all these years of struggle an 'uppity woman' daring to express perfectly reasonable views can be subjected to the abuse, hatred, and threats that she was. That her identity, her phone number and address would be exposed to attempt to terrify her into acquiescence. Perhaps even for someone to act on the kind of behaviour that the mob was encouraging, is horrific beyond imagination.

I'm depressed that there are people so insecure and so desperate to cling onto their privilege that they will attack even the suggestion of dissent.

I'm depressed that despite what has been gained we've entered a world in which the resentment engendered by this progress, combined with the unaccountabilty and anonymity the internet affords means that hatred and rage is directed at us more than ever.

I could never feel safe posting my name and location online. I think sometimes it's hard for men to understand the levels of vulnerability many of us feel, or the levels of intimidation many of us experience almost routinely.
I don't mean that as a criticism, i hope you never do experience it. I just wish we didn't have to either.


I would like to think that there are some things on which we could all agree concerning this:
1) Regardless of whether you agree with her opinion or not... she is entitled to it, and to express it.
2) That no one should be subjected to the kind of abuse to which she was subjected.

Thank you for sharing that with us all. Our goal with this community is to build a more accepting community where differing opinions can be expressed without it melting down completely. I hope you'll stick around and help us build that sort of community. It sounds like one you'd welcome.

[BumbleBecc]

Thank you for sharing that with us all. Our goal with this community is to build a more accepting community where differing opinions can be expressed without it melting down completely. I hope you'll stick around and help us build that sort of community. It sounds like one you'd welcome.

It is

Thank you for making the stand here.
I had not intended to return, but i am glad to now.

Thank You.

[tcjohnson]

I had intended to stay away from this thread because it will inevitably lead to subjects which are painful. A few points have been nagging at me, however.

Firstly, Janelle's critique. I believe it's fair, it's certainly nothing to cause the kind of monstrous attacks she received.

While I appreciate what you are saying, I would add that NOTHING anybody could say should cause the kind of monsterous attacks she received. Maybe is she actually killed somebody's puppy. But no words is worth al that.

That is what I find so horrific about this. It was an opinion of a comic book cover.

[BumbleBecc]

While I appreciate what you are saying, I would add that NOTHING anybody could say should cause the kind of monsterous attacks she received. Maybe is she actually killed somebody's puppy. But no words is worth al that.

That is what I find so horrific about this. It was an opinion of a comic book cover.

I agree completely. NOTHING warrants that kind of response. That it could be a reaction to something so ultimately unimportant makes it all the more frightening.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Geek culture is infantile almost by definition, if the material was acceptable for consumption by adults then there would be no social stigma associated with it in the first place. The reason that media like comic books and video games exists is to feed adolescent impulses, expecting the audience to react to a perceived intrusion with maturity and consideration is a bit unrealistic, no?

Maybe it is.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't ask for and expect it of each other.

[wjowski]

Not to deflect criticism of the cover (I find it...kinda tasteless) but people who run around spouting off about 'lowest common denominator' outside of arithmetic really need to stop.

[Cipher]

Throw in my support is well, on all her points.

And I like Kenneth Rocafort's art on the whole. But she made some excellent points about how ingrained sexist anatomy is into mainstream comic art, and about DC's approach to marketing its titles (and, in this case, how both played against each other). At best, dissenters should have expressed their disagreement and moved on. The fact she received any personal threats is horrible and baffling.

[gregyo]

Anyone have a link to this infamous critique?

[Don C]

And I still want to know if that is a wee little door underneath Red Robin or not...

Most people seem to think he's on a short wall, so it's doubtful that that's a door.