Dawn of Justice review...

[superduperman]

Okay, so yesterday I saw BVS and aside from the fact that it was essentially Dark Knight Returns with less plot (with some scenes lifted wholesale), there's one thing about the movie that doesn't make any sense to me: Why was Batman even in this? Luthor's plan was basically have Batman kill Superman because...? 1) What made him think Batman even could kill Superman? and 2) Luthor already had a plan in mind should Batman fail. Which worked. So what was the point of even dragging Batman into this? Nothing about this movie made any sense. It was basically a vehicle for promoting the upcoming Justice League movie. Plus, Luthor was doing a damn good job of turning the public against Superman to begin with. He didn't need to stage a fight. Batman was a red herring. Someone who's as smart as Luthor would be able to see that. You don't drag an unpredictable X factor into a carefully laid plan that requires precision. All he would have had to do was say "I have a Superman deterrent!" and make his case to the public that Superman poses an uncontrollable threat. Half a city leveled little over a year earlier should have been enough to do it.

For that matter, Luthor's own motives are kind of vague. He hates Superman because he has daddy issues? Okay. Did his father have a spitcurl? Why even make a connection between the two? Wanting to be the most powerful man in the world is one thing but even that isn't entirely clear in terms of a motive. It also isn't clear he fit that role before Superman even showed up. He comes across as a Mark Zuckerburg clone with more hubris. Martha showed she apparently takes after her husband in terms of the "don't help people" mentality. All in all this movie was all over the place where no one's motives are entirely clear. Even Superman himself just sort of wanders around aimlessly being manipulated by one person or another. It's also entirely coincidental that Batman even got on his radar. The TV just happened to be on at the right time. The only thing bringing them together being a mother's name. If Superman really wanted Batman's help, he could have just said something when they first met. It's not like Batman's suit could fly. Stand in the air and explain the situation to him. Including Luthor's involvement. Fight avoided.

The good thing about this movie? The flight sequences. This was about the only thing I liked about MOS too. It really did look like exactly what you would expect a man who can fly to look like. Better than any other interpretation in history. When Superman uses his powers, you truly believe it would look like that. It's just a shame it's wasted on such a bad version of the character. Wonder Woman was also good. Too bad she got so little screen time.

[DieHard200904]

Lex Luthor, as I know him, could deal under the table when it comes to issues like the attacks and schemes he had. In DOJ, he wasn't very convincing in the subtlety department.

With Jonathan he did want Clark to help, but he wasn't sure how to have it done without exposing Clark to the world and inviting undue attention / hostility if the world's found out.


Superman wasn't done so well in terms of tone. I know he saved some people, but the execution was problematic and hard to remember amid the noise of the tragic events.

[kingaliencracker]

Okay, so yesterday I saw BVS and aside from the fact that it was essentially Dark Knight Returns with less plot (with some scenes lifted wholesale), there's one thing about the movie that doesn't make any sense to me: Why was Batman even in this? Luthor's plan was basically have Batman kill Superman because...? 1) What made him think Batman even could kill Superman? and 2) Luthor already had a plan in mind should Batman fail. Which worked. So what was the point of even dragging Batman into this? Nothing about this movie made any sense. It was basically a vehicle for promoting the upcoming Justice League movie. Plus, Luthor was doing a damn good job of turning the public against Superman to begin with. He didn't need to stage a fight. Batman was a red herring. Someone who's as smart as Luthor would be able to see that. You don't drag an unpredictable X factor into a carefully laid plan that requires precision. All he would have had to do was say "I have a Superman deterrent!" and make his case to the public that Superman poses an uncontrollable threat. Half a city leveled little over a year earlier should have been enough to do it.

This is my perspective, so take it for what you will....

I think Lex thought of Batman as the anti-Superman - a man who trained himself to be the ultimate weapon, in his case against crime, and didn't depend on powers to accomplish his mission. I think he felt Batman was the symbol of the person he wanted to kill Superman. Lex even made the comment after Superman returns that Batman wasn't strong enough, which is why he had Doomsday as his ace-in-the-hole.

For that matter, Luthor's own motives are kind of vague. He hates Superman because he has daddy issues? Okay. Did his father have a spitcurl? Why even make a connection between the two? Wanting to be the most powerful man in the world is one thing but even that isn't entirely clear in terms of a motive. It also isn't clear he fit that role before Superman even showed up. He comes across as a Mark Zuckerburg clone with more hubris. Martha showed she apparently takes after her husband in terms of the "don't help people" mentality. All in all this movie was all over the place where no one's motives are entirely clear. Even Superman himself just sort of wanders around aimlessly being manipulated by one person or another. It's also entirely coincidental that Batman even got on his radar. The TV just happened to be on at the right time. The only thing bringing them together being a mother's name. If Superman really wanted Batman's help, he could have just said something when they first met. It's not like Batman's suit could fly. Stand in the air and explain the situation to him. Including Luthor's involvement. Fight avoided.

I think people are kind of overthinking this when Lex stated pretty specifically why he wanted to kill Superman.

In Lex's warped view, someone like Superman can't exist because if someone is all-powerful, they can't be all-good, and if someone is all-good, they can't be all-powerful. It appears this comes from Lex's upbringing, where his father started out in poverty and became powerful, but was abusive towards Lex proving he wasn't a good man. When Lex inherited his father's empire, he manipulated events behind the scenes for evil purposes, proving he wasn't a good man either. Lex wanted to prove to the world that Superman wasn't both all-powerful and all-good by killing him or having him kill Batman.

In terms of everything else, I mean why was Batman so antagonizing towards Superman in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS? By all accounts, Superman was still doing good in the world and appeared to maintain his "boy scout" demeanor. The reality is, they wanted a Batman vs. Superman plot, so they made sure the plot moved in that direction to try and justify the fight. Same with this movie. From the beginning they made Batman loathe Superman, to the point that nothing Superman could have done or said would have made a difference.

The good thing about this movie? The flight sequences. This was about the only thing I liked about MOS too. It really did look like exactly what you would expect a man who can fly to look like. Better than any other interpretation in history. When Superman uses his powers, you truly believe it would look like that. It's just a shame it's wasted on such a bad version of the character. Wonder Woman was also good. Too bad she got so little screen time.

I still believe that Henry Cavill is easily the 2nd best actor to play Superman, and I don't think he's far away from Christopher Reeve. I just think he needs a better story from someone who actually likes the character, which I'm not entirely convinced Snyder & Goyer do.

[DieHard200904]

This is my perspective, so take it for what you will....

I think Lex thought of Batman as the anti-Superman - a man who trained himself to be the ultimate weapon, in his case against crime, and didn't depend on powers to accomplish his mission. I think he felt Batman was the symbol of the person he wanted to kill Superman. Lex even made the comment after Superman returns that Batman wasn't strong enough, which is why he had Doomsday as his ace-in-the-hole.



I think people are kind of overthinking this when Lex stated pretty specifically why he wanted to kill Superman.

In Lex's warped view, someone like Superman can't exist because if someone is all-powerful, they can't be all-good, and if someone is all-good, they can't be all-powerful. It appears this comes from Lex's upbringing, where his father started out in poverty and became powerful, but was abusive towards Lex proving he wasn't a good man. When Lex inherited his father's empire, he manipulated events behind the scenes for evil purposes, proving he wasn't a good man either. Lex wanted to prove to the world that Superman wasn't both all-powerful and all-good by killing him or having him kill Batman.

In terms of everything else, I mean why was Batman so antagonizing towards Superman in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS? By all accounts, Superman was still doing good in the world and appeared to maintain his "boy scout" demeanor. The reality is, they wanted a Batman vs. Superman plot, so they made sure the plot moved in that direction to try and justify the fight. Same with this movie. From the beginning they made Batman loathe Superman, to the point that nothing Superman could have done or said would have made a difference.



I still believe that Henry Cavill is easily the 2nd best actor to play Superman, and I don't think he's far away from Christopher Reeve. I just think he needs a better story from someone who actually likes the character, which I'm not entirely convinced Snyder & Goyer do.

I will be glad to see any movie in the DCEU that is not have the Goyer/Snyder label on it.