Wonder Woman Earth One: Discussion Thread

[rpi]

It's a weird book, mostly badly but there is one interesting concept.

it's obvious that is written by someone that don't understand feminism or even what marston amazons stand for.

Would you mind expanding on that?

[Lex Luthor]

great art and probably the best interpretation of the Amazons since marston but overall idk how to feel yet

[SiegePerilous02]

It's a weird book, mostly badly but there is one interesting concept.

it's obvious that is written by someone that don't understand feminism or even what marston amazons stand for.

Well, Marston's Amazons stood for the idea that women are inherently superior to men and that the world would be better off in their care. Which, as we know, is not what feminism should really be about. Morrison was being true to that attitude when it comes to the Amazons, but confronting the fact that it's as wrong headed as what was done to them.

Diana is in the process of growing up, but is already displaying some more modern sensibilities in regards to feminism by the end of the story, while Etta and the Holliday Girls are true modern women. That being said, I don't think these Amazons are one note or completely devoid of sympathetic attributes considering what Hercules and his men did to them.

[ed2962]

Would you mind expanding on that?

I won't say that Grant doesn't understand feminism, but one thing I thought that was a misstep...someone raised in a matriarchal society wouldn't say "you look like a bunch of girls" as way to mock someone.

[t hedge coke]

It was better than I was expecting. Not unflawed, but charming and smart and many of the characters were great fun. Diana's girlfriend was great and her stealing her title and plane was an interesting twist. The roleplay stuff was spot on. The kangaroos were awesome. The hospital stuff was heartbreaking in a way.

I'm not getting at all what some people are, that these didn't feel like people. And, I'm seriously pleased it didn't devolve into a punch up.

It's a weird book, mostly badly but there is one interesting concept.

it's obvious that is written by someone that don't understand feminism or even what marston amazons stand for.

Alternately, it's written by someone who disagrees with you about feminism and about what Marston Amazons (can) stand for.

[t hedge coke]

I won't say that Grant doesn't understand feminism, but one thing I thought that was a misstep...someone raised in a matriarchal society wouldn't say "you look like a bunch of girls" as way to mock someone.

She also calls them boys. Talks of how young they seem. How immature. They're children.

"Sweet, beardless, youthful faces, made to kiss, not harm or hurt. Barely born, you live in squalor and die uncomprehending... Hola, boy! Must you prove my mother right?"

She's not mocking them for seeming female. But, the word "girls," probably comes more readily to her than the word, "boys."

[Tayswift]

Alternately, it's written by someone who disagrees with you about feminism and about what Marston Amazons (can) stand for.

so a white straight male know feminism better than me (I'm a woman POC) nice.

my vision is pretty much the marston one, even other feminists (many men) agreed that morrison lost the point of amazons

I won't say that Grant doesn't understand feminism, but one thing I thought that was a misstep...someone raised in a matriarchal society wouldn't say "you look like a bunch of girls" as way to mock someone.

that was dumb.

[vasir12]

So.... I didn't like this much at all. Things just kinda happened. I'll wait for Rucka's year one storyline.

[SiegePerilous02]

so a white straight male know feminism better than me (I'm a woman POC) nice.

my vision is pretty much the marston one, even other feminists (many men) agreed that morrison lost the point of amazons

So do you think that feminism means that women are superior to men and that the sexes aren't equal? Because that's what Marston's feminism preaches, and it was probably necessary to go that radical when he first wrote his stories considering the treatment of women in general at that time, but it's horribly dated now. If he wanted to be true to Marston's Amazons while also looking at them from a modern perspective, I think this take is unavoidable. Especially as he wanted the Amazons to have some agency in their decision to cut themselves off from Man's World and not have it be due to Aphrodite's decree.

I vastly prefer this to Azzarello's approach of "throwing dirt" on the Amazons, as we got to see what drove them from Man's World and their motivations, as well as their advancements along with their flaws. This is also a Diana-Hippolyta story first and foremost. I'm glad we just got the big elephant in the room out of the way so that future volumes can focus on something else.

[t hedge coke]

so a white straight male know feminism better than me (I'm a woman POC) nice.

Did I say that? Not that your version follows, either, but I didn't say anything like that.

I said, you and he disagree. I didn't say either of you knows better or is wrong. You said someone was wrong and someone knew better.

But, as a white man, like Marston, does it follow, then, that Morrison understands Marston better than you? (No.)

Which, actually, makes me realize, we've got a transvestite writing about Wonder Woman dressing up as a man (Hercules) for performative reasons. That's something, at the very least, worth acknowledging, since I don't recall that being something in Wonder Woman before.

[SiegePerilous02]

Which, actually, makes me realize, we've got a transvestite writing about Wonder Woman dressing up as a man (Hercules) for performative reasons. That's something, at the very least, worth acknowledging, since I don't recall that being something in Wonder Woman before.

Morrison's a transvestite? Huh.

I've seen it theorized that we could consider Diana to be Marston's self insert to some degree, so she'd be "Marston in drag."

[Tayswift]

So do you think that feminism means that women are superior to men and that the sexes aren't equal? Because that's what Marston's feminism preaches, and it was probably necessary to go that radical when he first wrote his stories considering the treatment of women in general at that time, but it's horribly dated now. If he wanted to be true to Marston's Amazons while also looking at them from a modern perspective, I think this take is unavoidable. Especially as he wanted the Amazons to have some agency in their decision to cut themselves off from Man's World and not have it be due to Aphrodite's decree.

No, but the morrison feminism here on amazons is about women hating ALL men and being superior. But not even Marston was so radical with his amazons like Morrison.
nah there is bombshells and legend of wonder woman that deals much better than azzarello

I vastly prefer this to Azzarello's approach of "throwing dirt" on the Amazons, as we got to see what drove them from Man's World and their motivations, as well as their advancements along with their flaws. This is also a Diana-Hippolyta story first and foremost. I'm glad we just got the big elephant in the room out of the way so that future volumes can focus on something else.

I prefer perez or legend of wonder woman. azzarello just threw more dirt than Morrison and didn't had the amazons being advanced. very little difference

[ed2962]

She also calls them boys. Talks of how young they seem. How immature. They're children.

"Sweet, beardless, youthful faces, made to kiss, not harm or hurt. Barely born, you live in squalor and die uncomprehending... Hola, boy! Must you prove my mother right?"

She's not mocking them for seeming female. But, the word "girls," probably comes more readily to her than the word, "boys."

But she says it to underscore how not tough they are, "These are men? They look more like girls..." It's literally something a macho drill instructor would say.

[ed2962]

No, but the morrison feminism here on amazons is about women hating ALL men and being superior. But not even Marston was so radical with his amazons like Morrison.
nah there is bombshells and legend of wonder woman that deals much better than azzarello

I prefer perez or legend of wonder woman. azzarello just threw more dirt than Morrison and didn't had the amazons being advanced. very little difference

Seriously, I thought there could have been more gender politics. Steve remarks about laying off the feminist jihad, but I thought the comic soft balled the feminist ideas

[Last Son of Krypton]

Morrison's a transvestite? Huh.

Well, he was a "part-time" transvestite in the past.