Cover Reveal for DC's June Previews Catalog Offers New Look at Rebirth Characters

[vasir12]

If you take blatant institutionalized racism as a "misstep", then ok. And if you think a character reduced to a shadow of himself, forever "bellow" the white dude who runs things is progressive, ok also. And let's remember, you're a grown man that is by your own admission trolling a comic book forum. You don't get to say who needs perspective.

The "blatant racism" thing is a huge reach.

[Atlanta96]

The "blatant racism" thing is a huge reach.

White character is made black, and his literal first appearance as a black person is getting arrested by cops for public vandalism. It's like they intentionally wanted us to hate Nu-Wally on purpose. I might have accepted Nu-Wally if they had gotten his character right from the start, but they blew it so hard that my chances of ever accepting the character went out the window.

Unless it turns out his name isn't actually Wally West. In that case I'll buy any comic featuring him out of respect!

[BatmanJones]

I think the hourglass has to do with Hourman. I feel like I read somewhere that that character had something to do with Rebirth.

[skyvolt2000]

You really are the living embodiment of the Simpsons comic book guy. That's a compliment, by the way!

Thank you.

[BohemiaDrinker]

The "blatant racism" thing is a huge reach.

It's not "blatant racism" - it's introducing a young character into a series that already has, by default, a white senior lead, and giving that lead a reason to be friends with the black character.

It is. It may not be intentional, but it is a character whose default white version have never had:

- An absentee father
- Criminal behaviour

And then, of course, after he's turned to a black version, he is stuck in a subservient role, disproportionally de-aged from the rest of his generation (which remained white white, let's remember), forever "inferior" to Barry, stuck at the kids table at the very bottom of the universe hierarchy. Call that "progressive" if you want, I call it showing black people their place; it's castrated Cyborg all over again.

And sure, his origin is told from the point of view of those heroic white cops, twisting the arm opf a 12 year old; course, it'sd warranted. He's a delinquent after all.

Nest step should be Barry teaching a few classes on Wally's school, where he'd teach some valuable lessons about life and, in turn, learn how to dance. Cause "why not", at this point?

What series of events is going to lead to Barry hanging out with his friend's kid nephew other than that nephew needing some sort of help in his life?[...]It would be great if there was another way to achieve that goal, but it is what it is.

Help in not running with gangs? I don't know, maybe a series of events similar to the one that led Kamala or Miles to the Avengers. Maybe a series of events similar to Jaime discovering the Blue Beetles legacy and carrying it out. Maybe doing what the TV show managed to do with the same damn character? Maybe their shared interest in science?

No, don't tell me there was no other way to do this; there are infinite ways to do this, they chose a crappy one. And turning the character into a Mary Sue while keeping him a neutered role won't make up for it;

But at the end of the day, at least there's another african-american in a setting that is entirely too whitewashed.

Yes, we do. We have the modern, "sanitized just enough" equivalent of this:



That's not progressive; sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative of "DC knows better", but I call crap when I see it.

And then, let's remember that he's in a trap enviroment his white counterpart never was.

And believe it or not, it's possible to talk about comics without taking unimportant details too seriously.

Well, believe or not, "important" is as subjective as anything else. To me, representation is goddamn important, and I've had my arm twisted by the good ol' police enough times to feel genuinely disgusted by this. I have all the right in the world to consider this mess unsalvageable without a reboot of the character, one that at least moves him away from Kid Flash for starters. And yeah, to me, for reasons way more important than Wally West fanboysim (which I'm guilty of, make no mistake), this version is terrible.

But "yay" away, if it pleases you.

[vasir12]

It is. It may not be intentional, but it is a character whose default white version have never had:

- An absentee father
- Criminal behaviour

And then, of course, after he's turned to a black version, he is stuck in a subservient role, disproportionally de-aged from the rest of his generation (which remained white white, let's remember), forever "inferior" to Barry, stuck at the kids table at the very bottom of the universe hierarchy. Call that "progressive" if you want, I call it showing black people their place; it's castrated Cyborg all over again.

And sure, his origin is told from the point of view of those heroic white cops, twisting the arm opf a 12 year old; course, it'sd warranted. He's a delinquent after all.

Nest step should be Barry teaching a few classes on Wally's school, where he'd teach some valuable lessons about life and, in turn, learn how to dance. Cause "why not", at this point?



Help in not running with gangs? I don't know, maybe a series of events similar to the one that led Kamala or Miles to the Avengers. Maybe a series of events similar to Jaime discovering the Blue Beetles legacy and carrying it out. Maybe doing what the TV show managed to do with the same damn character? Maybe their shared interest in science?

No, don't tell me there was no other way to do this; there are infinite ways to do this, they chose a crappy one. And turning the character into a Mary Sue while keeping him a neutered role won't make up for it;



Yes, we do. We have the modern, "sanitized just enough" equivalent of this:



That's not progressive; sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative of "DC knows better", but I call crap when I see it.

And then, let's remember that he's in a trap enviroment his white counterpart never was.



Well, believe or not, "important" is as subjective as anything else. To me, representation is goddamn important, and I've had my arm twisted by the good ol' police enough times to feel genuinely disgusted by this. I have all the right in the world to consider this mess unsalvageable without a reboot of the character, one that at least moves him away from Kid Flash for starters. And yeah, to me, for reasons way more important than Wally West fanboysim (which I'm guilty of, make no mistake), this version is terrible.

But "yay" away, if it pleases you.

Hm, I'm starting to see what you're saying here. But if DC messed him up at the beginning, doesn't mean he can't be fixed. Seems like they're making steps to that already.

[GlennSimpson]

It is. It may not be intentional, but it is a character whose default white version have never had:

- An absentee father
- Criminal behaviour

And then, of course, after he's turned to a black version, he is stuck in a subservient role, disproportionally de-aged from the rest of his generation (which remained white white, let's remember), forever "inferior" to Barry, stuck at the kids table at the very bottom of the universe hierarchy. Call that "progressive" if you want, I call it showing black people their place; it's castrated Cyborg all over again.

And sure, his origin is told from the point of view of those heroic white cops, twisting the arm opf a 12 year old; course, it'sd warranted. He's a delinquent after all.

Nest step should be Barry teaching a few classes on Wally's school, where he'd teach some valuable lessons about life and, in turn, learn how to dance. Cause "why not", at this point?



Help in not running with gangs? I don't know, maybe a series of events similar to the one that led Kamala or Miles to the Avengers. Maybe a series of events similar to Jaime discovering the Blue Beetles legacy and carrying it out. Maybe doing what the TV show managed to do with the same damn character? Maybe their shared interest in science?

No, don't tell me there was no other way to do this; there are infinite ways to do this, they chose a crappy one. And turning the character into a Mary Sue while keeping him a neutered role won't make up for it;



Yes, we do. We have the modern, "sanitized just enough" equivalent of this:



That's not progressive; sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative of "DC knows better", but I call crap when I see it.

And then, let's remember that he's in a trap enviroment his white counterpart never was.



Well, believe or not, "important" is as subjective as anything else. To me, representation is goddamn important, and I've had my arm twisted by the good ol' police enough times to feel genuinely disgusted by this. I have all the right in the world to consider this mess unsalvageable without a reboot of the character, one that at least moves him away from Kid Flash for starters. And yeah, to me, for reasons way more important than Wally West fanboysim (which I'm guilty of, make no mistake), this version is terrible.

But "yay" away, if it pleases you.

And you know what - if you are actually african-american and have a problem with the trappings of his introduction, I might still disagree, but I have respect for the position. That's not a "fanboy" stance.

It's the rampant nostalgia and "not my Wally" that I find irritating and embarrassing.

And honestly, I'm not seeing many other people take the former stance, only the latter.

Worth noting that post-Crisis, pre-Flashpoint Wally didn't have all that great a relationship with his father.

And Wolfman Wally was almost criminally conservative...

[BohemiaDrinker]

And you know what - if you are actually african-american and have a problem with the trappings of his introduction, I might still disagree, but I have respect for the position. That's not a "fanboy" stance.

It's the rampant nostalgia and "not my Wally" that I find irritating and embarrassing.

And honestly, I'm not seeing many other people take the former stance, only the latter.

Not African-American (cause, you know, not american), but biracial (black + white) same as NuWally.

And as soon as the news hit, there were many people taking the same position as I; they mostly left. Probably not because they changed their minds, but because they gave up.

Now, if you find the nostalgia "embarrassing and irritating", I find the whole "let's ignore the context and actual complaints, and troll the fanboys" stance that and more. I said i thought you were better than this recently; maybe I was wrong, maybe I wasn't, but i sure as hell think you're on the wrong on this one.

[skyvolt2000]

The "blatant racism" thing is a huge reach.

No it's not.

Atlanta96 summed it up best. The way he was introduced and his whole storyline-SCREAMED troupe fest.

No black father (only 6 black fathers have been seen in DC since new 52 started)

single mother

attitude

criminal behavior

white savior

I could understand if real Wally met Barry the same way or had issues like fake Wally. But they did that introduction around the time we had Trayvon martin, Tamir Rice and the rest of that mess starting up. Holy bad timing Batman.

The same mess we had with Duke at the start of We Are Robin. HOWEVER we saw growth in him.

I think if you introduced him differently-folks would be more open to him. Even if you said he was real Wally's son. It would be better than this.

The frustration among fandom is-

Real Wally is gone and he is what we get in return.

A ton of more well know and/or popular black characters are sitting in limbo while fake Wally is getting pushed.

A ton of popular WHITE characters are sitting in limbo while fake Wally is being pushed.

[skyvolt2000]

Hm, I'm starting to see what you're saying here. But if DC messed him up at the beginning, doesn't mean he can't be fixed. Seems like they're making steps to that already.

True.

However how much TIME will they be given to do so?

Right now I think Dc just wants to toss him out and think that is all they need to do. Much like they did with Cyborg at the start of new 52.

You cannot undo 2 years worth of damage with 2 monthly books where he has to share space with others.

He needs his OWN book. I don't care if it lasts 6 issues-DO IT.

He needs back ups.

He needs a mini.

You have to undo that damage you caused.

Get somebody on that book that FANS will trust and will give it a shot.

[GlennSimpson]

True.

However how much TIME will they be given to do so?

Right now I think Dc just wants to toss him out and think that is all they need to do. Much like they did with Cyborg at the start of new 52.

You cannot undo 2 years worth of damage with 2 monthly books where he has to share space with others.

He needs his OWN book. I don't care if it lasts 6 issues-DO IT.

He needs back ups.

He needs a mini.

You have to undo that damage you caused.

Get somebody on that book that FANS will trust and will give it a shot.

Given that we are starting to see him in costume in pretty much all of the Rebirth promotional materials, I think it's safe to say they are about to give him a big push.

[NexusTenebrare]

You cannot undo 2 years worth of damage with 2 monthly books where he has to share space with others.

They didn't do 2 years worth of damage. At best they did 6 or so months worth of damage as I don't think Wally appeared in more than 6 issues of Flash. Even then his appearences were so short that calling it even 6 months is incredibly misleading.
The whole thing is just so overinflated in people's minds.

He needs his OWN book. I don't care if it lasts 6 issues-DO IT.

He needs back ups.

He needs a mini.

Have you not been keeping up with what Rebirth is doing? None of that is going to happen.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Hm, I'm starting to see what you're saying here. But if DC messed him up at the beginning, doesn't mean he can't be fixed. Seems like they're making steps to that already.

The way to fix it is for him not to be a kid nor a sidekick. Give him his own identity and put him back with Dick, Donna, etc. Basically, giving black Wally what white Wally had, minus the fact that Barry is alive, so he is not the Flash. (which would require a reboot). This is not happening, what's happening is "whacky black sidekick" with the same f@#$ing origin.

No go for me.

[GlennSimpson]

Not African-American (cause, you know, not american), but biracial (black + white) same as NuWally.

And as soon as the news hit, there were many people taking the same position as I; they mostly left. Probably not because they changed their minds, but because they gave up.

Now, if you find the nostalgia "embarrassing and irritating", I find the whole "let's ignore the context and actual complaints, and troll the fanboys" stance that and more. I said i thought you were better than this recently; maybe I was wrong, maybe I wasn't, but i sure as hell think you're on the wrong on this one.

I would be happy to deal with the actual complaints. I've dealt with your complaints - the goal was to find a modern way to bring a teenage boy into Barry Allen's life. They needed some excuse for why a white police scientist would be hanging around with a black kid. So they found one that was, while not utterly complimentary, not implausible. And then they began, slowly, to pull him out of it.

This is a lot like the "Billy Bratson" controversy. They took a kid and gave him plausible issues to actually tell a modern story instead of keeping things in a 1940's fairytale setting. And people didn't like the fact that a kid with disadvantages actually acted out on them.

I'm sorry you didn't like it, but it wasn't that big a deal, and it makes sense. It wasn't blatant racism, it was finding a plausible, interesting way to bring a black kid into the unfortunately mostly-white world of Barry Allen. It was, at worst, a lazy origin story. But it's certainly not a big enough deal to keep railing about it.

If there's anything that embarrasses me about fellow comic book fans it's their inability to just let things go and move on.

[NexusTenebrare]

The way to fix it is for him not to be a kid nor a sidekick. Give him his own identity and put him back with Dick, Donna, etc. Basically, giving black Wally what white Wally had, minus the fact that Barry is alive, so he is not the Flash. (which would require a reboot). This is not happening, what's happening is "whacky black sidekick" with the same f@#$ing origin.

No go for me.

He is getting his own identity apart from his 'white saviour' figure.
He's in Teen Titans. It's just not the Titan team you want, because you can't let go of your nostalgia.