Rebirth Theory about Donna Troy & where she fits into Continuity

[4_Color_Image]

So… There seems to be a disconnect between the Donna Troy in Wonder Woman & the Donna Troy in Titans Hunt. The Donna Troy in Wonder Woman is practically a new born & the new Fate and yet the Donna Troy in Titans Hunt has a history (though forgotten) with the other Titans going back five years. What if the Donna Troy that was a member of the Titans ceased to exist after everyone forgot the Titans, a la a cycle of countless tragic lives and was reborn through magic on Themyscira? Pre-Crisis Donna had connections to every other Donna Troy throughout the Multiverse, The Anti-Monitor, The Monitor, & Harbinger, even replacing the latter after she died (this could tie into her role as the Fate of the New 52). Once Rebirth happens I believe Donna will regain those connections along with her proper blue eyes and be a link between the pre & post 52 DCU.

[Rosa Snarks]

Interesting. I do remember Donna saying recently mammoth could kill her easily .. Not sure if she forgot that she can't die or if she had a past life moment..

[CRaymond]

Donna Troy is an incredibly problematic character specifically because authors are beholden to weak creative choices that have somehow endeared themselves to a niche audience with little regard for anything beyond surface.

Granted, I know nothing about the current "Goddess of Fate" Donna, but I'm glad the Finches are trying to find a purpose for the character beyond being Wonder Woman Lite --which usually ends up becoming generic super-heroine with an inexplicable familial relationship with Diana of Themyscira. I look at the role of Donna and see nothing but disappointment. She SHOULD be to Diana what Nanaja is to Gloriana, a "same but different" perspective and behavior that's both somewhat antagonistic and complementary.

I think there's important plot points to consider for a reintegration of Donna into the current continuity, among them being rescued by Wonder Woman in Man's World, raised by Hippolyte on Themyscira, the NAME Donna Troy, whether given or an alias, a "little sister" relationship with Diana, and your basic generic superpowers like flight, strength, durability. Diana being an ingenue heroine in continuity is the biggest nail in the coffin for anyone trying to bring Donna into the story.

I know what I'd do, and I'm interested to hear what you all would do... or expect editorial and authors to create.

[Agent Z]

Donna Troy is an incredibly problematic character specifically because authors are beholden to weak creative choices that have somehow endeared themselves to a niche audience with little regard for anything beyond surface.

Granted, I know nothing about the current "Goddess of Fate" Donna, but I'm glad the Finches are trying to find a purpose for the character beyond being Wonder Woman Lite --which usually ends up becoming generic super-heroine with an inexplicable familial relationship with Diana of Themyscira. I look at the role of Donna and see nothing but disappointment. She SHOULD be to Diana what Nanaja is to Gloriana, a "same but different" perspective and behavior that's both somewhat antagonistic and complementary.

I think there's important plot points to consider for a reintegration of Donna into the current continuity, among them being rescued by Wonder Woman in Man's World, raised by Hippolyte on Themyscira, the NAME Donna Troy, whether given or an alias, a "little sister" relationship with Diana, and your basic generic superpowers like flight, strength, durability. Diana being an ingenue heroine in continuity is the biggest nail in the coffin for anyone trying to bring Donna into the story.

I know what I'd do, and I'm interested to hear what you all would do... or expect editorial and authors to create.

I agree Donna has problems but being "Wonder Woman lite" isn't one of them. It's more writers constantly changing her backstory.

Diana being an ingenue heroine in continuity is the biggest nail in the coffin for anyone trying to bring Donna into the story.

Could you maybe elaborate on this, please? I don't quite understand what you mean.


Edit: I don't know who Nanaja is but I fail to see how Donna copying her would help if you're worried about Donna being noting more than a ripoff of Diana. It's just having her imitate a different character.

[Darius]

I agree Donna has problems but being "Wonder Woman lite" isn't one of them. It's more writers constantly changing her backstory.

I agree ... it's not her powers that are the problem, or even her personality ... like all of the original Titans, Donna was essentially just a younger version of the main hero she mirrored Robin, Aqualad, Speedy and Donna were drawn together specifically because they were the same in this way.

Of course the confusion with Wonder Girl started with her own creator, who at some point lost track of the fact that Wonder Girl was not a separate person from Wonder Woman when she was created. Later, through some strange decision making process WW and WG started appearing together even though they were the same person ... thus retcons for WG started happening and the era of Donna Troy's various origins began!

Personally, I'd like them to go back to Donna essentially being Diana's little sister (adopted or otherwise). I also liked that her powers came from Amazon sources back then ... training and the Purple Ray

[CRaymond]

By WW Lite, I meant there really isn't much there to the character except the faintest whisper of history and character. Without a grounded relationship, Donna's presence and association with Diana is confusing at best and damaging at worst.

I dislike it when authors choose to send Diana to Man's World in contemporary time. See: Justice League animated series, Geoff Johns' nu52 Justice League, George Perez 1986 reboot. It kills the time needed for Donna to be rescued, raised, and for a true sisterly relationship to build.

And really, that's the most important part. Diana had a more nuanced sisterly relationship with Vanessa Kapatelis than she ever had with Donna.

[Agent Z]

By WW Lite, I meant there really isn't much there to the character except the faintest whisper of history and character. Without a grounded relationship, Donna's presence and association with Diana is confusing at best and damaging at worst.

I dislike it when authors choose to send Diana to Man's World in contemporary time. See: Justice League animated series, Geoff Johns' nu52 Justice League, George Perez 1986 reboot. It kills the time needed for Donna to be rescued, raised, and for a true sisterly relationship to build.

And really, that's the most important part. Diana had a more nuanced sisterly relationship with Vanessa Kapatelis than she ever had with Donna.

Except Vanessa wasn't raised by the Amazons nor did she grow up with Diana at all. I like having Diana appearing in contemporary time as it makes her less dated and it's not like past wars are intergral to her character. Donna could be adopted at an earlier age may between 12 and 15 and still form a bond with Diana. Or she could be washed up on Themysicra after a shipping accident.

I disagree there isn't much to Donna at all. It's writers screwing her up that's the issue.

[CRaymond]

Okay, so describe for me Donna's personality in ways that differ from Diana's.

[Agent Z]

Okay, so describe for me Donna's personality in ways that differ from Diana's.

Well, whereas Diana tends to be aloof or too naive of the rest of the world, Donna is more grounded. Sure both are kind and compassionate but Donna's more of a friend you've known for most of your life whereas Diana is more, I guess I'd call her a "Mother Theresa" figure in her kindness in that it's in a way that's otherwordly.

Basically, I'd say Donn a is the more approachable one and understanding of others than Diana.

[Harpsikord]

Okay, so describe for me Donna's personality in ways that differ from Diana's.

Coming from someone that adores both of them - there's plenty to Donna's personality that differs from Diana's. In Titans Hunt it isn't very clear, but if you look at the pre-reboot continuity, it's there.

Donna is the older sister type of character. In a way, she's a foil to Diana; Diana is an Amazon through and through, raised on Themyscira from the moment that she was born to the moment that she was either a young adult or thousands of years old depending on which continuity you choose to follow. She's got all of these Amazonian values, she's a princess, she's haughty, even if she still has a bit of a dry wit. She doesn't think she's better than people, of course, and of course - they're sisters. They have a few similarities, as they should. So does Batman with the Robin's and so does Superman with his proteges, that's nothing new. At the core of the 'sidekick' concept, the characters are derivative. Robin is a detective, Speedy is an archer.

So yes, they're both compassionate and they're both loving individuals, but that doesn't mean that they're the same person. In a lot of ways, Donna was the Man's World equivalent of Diana; where Diana spent most of her formative years on Themyscira, Donna spent most of hers in Man's World. She was fourteen when she came to Man's World, and a person's teenage years are the most important years for a person. They're what molds someone into who they are, and who they'll become in the future. Donna is a lot more approachable than Diana, she's a lot more fun; she's flirty and she's charismatic and at her core, she's a lot more grounded than Diana is. She's far more understanding and she's the one that you talk to when you need some advice, not Diana. She's a princess, sure, but she's not the princess that's going to be queen one day. She's just a woman that's been through a lot in her life, from divorce to losing her child to all things in-between.

Honestly, of a lot of heroes in the DC universe, I'd put Donna up as one of the most human. Especially when compared to Diana.

[MTroy]

Let me first say that I'm a huge fan of Donna Troy before the new 52 introduction. I'm also a huge fan of Diana. This being said I'm so tired of people calling Donna Troy Wonder Woman lite. I have been reading comic books since the 1970's. I remember the Teen Titans that Marv Wolfman and George Perez created in the 80's. In those stories Donna Troy was one of the most real well rounded characters in comic book stories. Although Donna's powers were basically the same as Wonder Woman's powers the two character were so different. Marv Wolfman made Donna a modern woman, she had job, she had a personal life she had a back story. In my opinion two of the best stories in the 80's were Who is Donna Troy? and the Wedding Story in The New Teen Titans. Both of those stories had very little action in them, but they showed more feelings and heart and were more real than so many comic stories during that time. Anyone that read those stories I can't understand thinking that Donna Troy was Wonder Woman lite.
What I believe that the New 52 did wrong was that they tried to change the character too much. When I think of Donna Troy I think about these major points.
1. Girl Next Door with Super Powers - She was the girl next door, popular, pretty, smart but she had these awesome powers and could kick ass.
2. She is Diana's little sister - This just worked whether she was adopted or not, she was connected to Wonder Woman as a sibling.
3. She was modern - She had a job, she had a love life, she had friends, she was successful in man's world.
The new 52 took all these things away and I believe alienated many of Donna's fans. She is no longer relatable. So I would like if the New 52 Donna Troy just went away with Rebirth and something a little more like the old Donna would appear.

[CRaymond]

I think you guys made my point for me.

Regardless of favorite history or character points, storylines written well or poorly, biographical pathos or ethos, you've failed to differentiate Donna from Diana in a way that makes both characters shine.

Diana, her fans, her teammates, and her authors don't benefit from a portrayal of Diana who's less approachable "when compared to her sister". Less fun "when compared to her sister". Less flirty(?) "when compared to her sister". I don't like reading about Diana when she's considered alien, aloof, antiquated, archetypal, or naive. The argument against is that no character should be infallible or faultless, but Diana's weaknesses should never be that she doesn't relate or cannot comprehend.

Donna, on the other hand, can hardly be described as compelling if she's everything her sister is but just not-so-much or not-as-bad. Her character is described as only slightly less caring, only slightly less charismatic, only slightly less hopeful, only slightly less idealistic... in favor of being only slightly more savvy with the contemporary world. Donna's core character trait shouldn't be she's a consistent silver medal winner "when compared to her sister" --but sure knows how to program a DVR. That's not a character foil, that's an echo chamber.

To compare: Robin(Tim) is optimistic compared to Batman. Robin(Damian) is draconian compared to Batman. Superboy(Connor) is frustrated compared to Superman. Speedy(Arsenal) is myopic compared to Green Arrow. Donna Troy is "human" compared to Wonder Woman?

[Dr. Poison]

Let me first say that I'm a huge fan of Donna Troy before the new 52 introduction. I'm also a huge fan of Diana. This being said I'm so tired of people calling Donna Troy Wonder Woman lite. I have been reading comic books since the 1970's. I remember the Teen Titans that Marv Wolfman and George Perez created in the 80's. In those stories Donna Troy was one of the most real well rounded characters in comic book stories. Although Donna's powers were basically the same as Wonder Woman's powers the two character were so different. Marv Wolfman made Donna a modern woman, she had job, she had a personal life she had a back story. In my opinion two of the best stories in the 80's were Who is Donna Troy? and the Wedding Story in The New Teen Titans. Both of those stories had very little action in them, but they showed more feelings and heart and were more real than so many comic stories during that time. Anyone that read those stories I can't understand thinking that Donna Troy was Wonder Woman lite.
What I believe that the New 52 did wrong was that they tried to change the character too much. When I think of Donna Troy I think about these major points.
1. Girl Next Door with Super Powers - She was the girl next door, popular, pretty, smart but she had these awesome powers and could kick ass.
2. She is Diana's little sister - This just worked whether she was adopted or not, she was connected to Wonder Woman as a sibling.
3. She was modern - She had a job, she had a love life, she had friends, she was successful in man's world.
The new 52 took all these things away and I believe alienated many of Donna's fans. She is no longer relatable. So I would like if the New 52 Donna Troy just went away with Rebirth and something a little more like the old Donna would appear.

I have to agree with you in that "Who is Donna Troy" and Donna's wedding were Wolfman's best stories featuring the character of Donna Troy. I couldn't believe how badly things went with the "Who is Wonder Girl" story that turned Donna into Troia. That was the beginning of the end for Donna as she seemed to become so generic after that with a plethora of hideous costumes(exceptions being made for Jimenez's costumes). I'm glad to see Donna finally back with the original Titans in current continuity and I look forward to Abnett further fixing her in the upcoming Titans ongoing.

I've also never thought of Donna as "Wonder Woman Lite". If anything, the comparison is more like Diana is "chocolate" where as Donna is "chocolate with almonds" and Cassie is "mint chocolate".

[Darius]

Let me first say that I'm a huge fan of Donna Troy before the new 52 introduction. I'm also a huge fan of Diana. This being said I'm so tired of people calling Donna Troy Wonder Woman lite. I have been reading comic books since the 1970's. I remember the Teen Titans that Marv Wolfman and George Perez created in the 80's. In those stories Donna Troy was one of the most real well rounded characters in comic book stories. Although Donna's powers were basically the same as Wonder Woman's powers the two character were so different. Marv Wolfman made Donna a modern woman, she had job, she had a personal life she had a back story. In my opinion two of the best stories in the 80's were Who is Donna Troy? and the Wedding Story in The New Teen Titans. Both of those stories had very little action in them, but they showed more feelings and heart and were more real than so many comic stories during that time. Anyone that read those stories I can't understand thinking that Donna Troy was Wonder Woman lite.
What I believe that the New 52 did wrong was that they tried to change the character too much. When I think of Donna Troy I think about these major points.
1. Girl Next Door with Super Powers - She was the girl next door, popular, pretty, smart but she had these awesome powers and could kick ass.
2. She is Diana's little sister - This just worked whether she was adopted or not, she was connected to Wonder Woman as a sibling.
3. She was modern - She had a job, she had a love life, she had friends, she was successful in man's world.
The new 52 took all these things away and I believe alienated many of Donna's fans. She is no longer relatable. So I would like if the New 52 Donna Troy just went away with Rebirth and something a little more like the old Donna would appear.

I always thought Donna was a super hero out of duty, but her real life was much more about her civilian self ... Diana, Post-Crisis, was devoted to her life as a super hero and ambassador, meanwhile Donna was out there in the world as a person living her life

[Herowatcher]

The original origin of Donna Troy and still the best...as retold in New Teen Titans.
Thank you Marv Wolfman!