Gerry Conway

[Stingo]

Gotta admit, as a longtime DC fan who is pretty dismayed with the dark and oppressive route WB is going by allowing Snyder full rein of their classic characters, Conway's very blunt comments ring true to me...Snyder should not be allowed anywhere near Supes and the others just on his past statements. The man does not get what makes these characters tick.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/05/...ther-directly/

[Outside_85]

Or Conway has just gotten old.

[Stingo]

Or Conway has just gotten old.

Er, um...That's rather ageist of you, isn't it? I'd bet you dollars to donuts that Conway could write rings around tons of the so-called "Kewl" and "hot" writers in the field today (besides, Gerry wrote a short but amazing run of All Star Comics in the 1970s, reviving the JSA in their own title...So I'm kinda partial and defensive of the guy and others of his generation. So there!)

But back on point: The reason why Marvel (AKA Disney) is cleaning DC's clock in film right now is because they "get" the balance between dark and light without falling too far over on either side. I'm sorry, but I'll take Richard Donner's Superman over Snyder's brooding and dark version any day. Just my opinion and I respect anyone that might have a different take.

[Outside_85]

Er, um...That's rather ageist of you, isn't it? I'd bet you dollars to donuts that Conway could write rings around tons of the so-called "Kewl" and "hot" writers in the field today (besides, Gerry wrote a short but amazing run of All Star Comics in the 1970s, reviving the JSA in their own title...So I'm kinda partial and defensive of the guy and others of his generation. So there!)

Isn't he the current Carnage writer?

And let me just put it this way, I am defensive of people who dont appear to be allowed to have their version of certain characters and stories. You do not own Superman, neither do I, Conway or Snyder for that matter. But WB gave Snyder the permission and budget to bring his vision to life; and hats what Snyder is doing; his version of a 80 year old character. If people really don't like it, perhaps they should just skip the future movies he makes?

But back on point: The reason why Marvel (AKA Disney) is cleaning DC's clock in film right now is because they "get" the balance between dark and light without falling too far over on either side. I'm sorry, but I'll take Richard Donner's Superman over Snyder's brooding and dark version any day. Just my opinion and I respect anyone that might have a different take.

Disney is cleaning the BO because Disney is all about cartering to the easiest of money, their entire company is built on sanitizing centuries old fairytales and then selling them to children. Now they have control over Marvel and can make stuff for big children as well, but using the same formula; make it bright and don't challenge the audience.

[Stingo]

Isn't he the current Carnage writer?

And let me just put it this way, I am defensive of people who dont appear to be allowed to have their version of certain characters and stories. You do not own Superman, neither do I, Conway or Snyder for that matter. But WB gave Snyder the permission and budget to bring his vision to life; and hats what Snyder is doing; his version of a 80 year old character. If people really don't like it, perhaps they should just skip the future movies he makes?



Disney is cleaning the BO because Disney is all about cartering to the easiest of money, their entire company is built on sanitizing centuries old fairytales and then selling them to children. Now they have control over Marvel and can make stuff for big children as well, but using the same formula; make it bright and don't challenge the audience.

Hi Outside,

Thanks for your reply. And while I do respect your opinion on the matter, I do disagree with it (as you obviously disagree with mine).

Your comment about "challenging the audience..." Again, I think we view iconic characters such as Superman through a pretty different prism. I see him as the light to Batman's dark, both character-wise and tonally in his stories. Does this mean that I don't want to be "challenged" when I go to see a Superman film or read a comic featuring good ol' Supes? Sure, challenge me, but at the same time I want to be entertained also and not leave the movie theater (or my cozy arm chair) on a complete downer. In my opinion, and in many other comic fans opinions, that was indeed the viewing experience of Superman and Superman Versus Batman. And yes, I will be skipping out on any further Snyder iterations of DC's characters. His vision of what these characters are is just way too out of left field for this longtime fan.

I do think your assessment of Marvel's films have some valid points, but overall I am inclined to part company with you in your ultimate opinion of why these films are cleaning DC's proverbial clock (thanks for acknowledging that point, by the way). Again, I respect your right to your opinions.

[Maxpower00044]

Or Conway has just gotten old.

And he's wise in his old age, because he's absolutely correct.

[Maxpower00044]

Isn't he the current Carnage writer?

And let me just put it this way, I am defensive of people who dont appear to be allowed to have their version of certain characters and stories. You do not own Superman, neither do I, Conway or Snyder for that matter. But WB gave Snyder the permission and budget to bring his vision to life; and hats what Snyder is doing; his version of a 80 year old character. If people really don't like it, perhaps they should just skip the future movies he makes?



Disney is cleaning the BO because Disney is all about cartering to the easiest of money, their entire company is built on sanitizing centuries old fairytales and then selling them to children. Now they have control over Marvel and can make stuff for big children as well, but using the same formula; make it bright and don't challenge the audience.

They should go with what works, rather than what Z. Snyder's terrible vision for these characters were. It was just as much on WB as it was on Snyder, but that doesn't make these movies (and his vision) any less craptastic.

I'm trying to figure out what "challenge the audience" means. Does it mean to completely misunderstand the characters you are trying to write to the point where it's a challenge to even sit through the movie? Cause that's how I was challenged.

[Panfoot]

I'll never understand these mis-characterization complaints for Superman and Batman after there have been so many vastly different takes over their very long history.

[Username taken]

100% agree with Conway.

[AcesX1X]

dropping f bombs on fellow creators is highly unprofessional. and a little crazy considering he was responding to things from over five years ago.

[Desh]

I agree with Conway in that I can't understand why WB gave Snyder the keys to the kingdom. He never should have had them, but after Man of Steel, he certainly shouldn't have been able to keep them. If WB continues with Snyder going forward, then perhaps they should check themselves into an insane asylum. WB does a whole heck of a lot of things with their comic book properties that I don't understand.

[Outside_85]

Your comment about "challenging the audience..." Again, I think we view iconic characters such as Superman through a pretty different prism. I see him as the light to Batman's dark, both character-wise and tonally in his stories.

Does this mean that I don't want to be "challenged" when I go to see a Superman film or read a comic featuring good ol' Supes? Sure, challenge me, but at the same time I want to be entertained also and not leave the movie theater (or my cozy arm chair) on a complete downer.

In my opinion, and in many other comic fans opinions, that was indeed the viewing experience of Superman and Superman Versus Batman. And yes, I will be skipping out on any further Snyder iterations of DC's characters. His vision of what these characters are is just way too out of left field for this longtime fan.

I do think your assessment of Marvel's films have some valid points, but overall I am inclined to part company with you in your ultimate opinion of why these films are cleaning DC's proverbial clock (thanks for acknowledging that point, by the way). Again, I respect your right to your opinions.

Thats kinda where I am going with the remark on Snyder's version. You see Superman as a very specific thing and changing that, even slightly, is what upsets you here. I am also familiar with the Donner movies... and I know Superman Returns reminded us why that approach doesn't work any longer. By comparison, I just think Snyder's Superman is much more human, sure in BvS he is trying his hardest to be the icon or monument people think he is, but it comes through that he is really just a Kansas farm boy underneath that bulletproof skin... with all the issues that comes with it. (As Batman once put it: "Clark is the most human of us all.")

Well if you are a big time Superman fan and thought you'd never see that ending on a screen, it probably came as a nasty surprise. (It surprised me atleast.) So I dont begrudge you if that was the reason. But that said, I wonder what stories you would have adapted that would be challenging?

And thats fine, but it doesn't mean it should all be burned in a fire to make way for a version you like better. As for being far out... well Batman was basically just Frank Millers DKR Batman, and that seems to be fine for most people.

About Disney... there is a damn good reason why they are the biggest entertainment corporation on the face of the planet and it has very much to do with their target audience.

They should go with what works, rather than what Z. Snyder's terrible vision for these characters were. It was just as much on WB as it was on Snyder, but that doesn't make these movies (and his vision) any less craptastic.

I'm trying to figure out what "challenge the audience" means. Does it mean to completely misunderstand the characters you are trying to write to the point where it's a challenge to even sit through the movie? Cause that's how I was challenged.

Going with what works? See that's your problem; Snyders version does work, in the world he has constructed around it. Your problem is that it doesn't work in the world you want it to be in. You want the Donner Superman? Sure, MoS may not work in there... but the thing is, it isn't.

Challenge you to think about how characters and situations like these would be in a pseudo-realistic world.

[JBatmanFan05]

Here is what Gerry Conway, co-creator of Punisher, writer of Amazing Spider-Man, writer of death of Gwen Stacy, writer of JLA, creator of Firestorm, had to say:

**** you, Zack Snyder. "Zack Snyder’s baffling vision for superhero movies, explained by Zack Snyder"

The real mystery is why Warners gave him their whole superhero franchise after “Watchmen” and “Sucker Punch” flopped

Ah, the “sunk cost fallacy” in action, illustrating the Escalation of Commitment principle

Which part is garbage? Snyder's obnoxious view of superheroes, or calling him out for those views? Warners' continued support of Zack Snyder despite evidence he's a terrible choice for superhero movies, explained:

But they ARE Snyder quotes and clearly reflect his current thinking as evidenced by #BvS. Seems relevant to me.

To be fair, #BvS is kind of a “**** you” in its own way. Google “Jimmy Olsen fun Zack Snyder” if you think otherwise

Go Gerry Conway! Preach on!


Zach Snyder...what a surprise, truly a "normal" comic book hater, and finally exposed as such.

"It's a mystery why Snyder believes that prison rape, sex, and death are what people want to see in superhero films"
http://www.vox.com/2016/5/2/11565932...justice-league

It's no mystery Vox article author. He's nuttier than a guy who dresses up in a batsuit to fight crime.

[Outside_85]

Go Gerry Conway! Preach on!

Zach Snyder...what a surprise, truly a "normal" comic book hater, and finally exposed as such.


It's no mystery Vox article author. He's nuttier than a guy who dresses up in a batsuit to fight crime.

Actually that line is meant as what Snyder would consider 'dark' and why Nolan's Batman is not.

[JBatmanFan05]

Actually that line is meant as what Snyder would consider 'dark' and why Nolan's Batman is not.

Seems only Game of Thrones (genius show!) is dark to Zach then. And he's apparently determined to compete with GoT in the darkness dept through his films.

Want "dark" Batman in Tibetan monastery training with ninjas? Probably has to be rape then. Ok Zach.