Page 17 of 17 FirstFirst ... 71314151617
Results 241 to 251 of 251
  1. #241
    Back for noon feeding The Shredder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Snacking in Amity waters
    Posts
    308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vasir12 View Post
    I think that's just some artist. He looks older in others. It's just that he shaved the beard. That makes everyone look younger.
    Kinda why I said there appears to be a direction in making him appear more youthful than what he was appearing as when re-introduced into the New52 world (L&C). Yeah, the bread being gone does help this notion.

  2. #242
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,084

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shredder View Post
    Despite some quite glaring partiality in all that text above, alot of which I'm not even going to waste my time in addressing cause I don't want to bog this down to what you or I 'personally' prefer, or what we think is the better character, cause you know, how is THAT going to get resolved?

    But my thinking is that DC isn't necessarily going to do away with the last 5 years worth of continuity. Quite the contrary. Did DC just simply do away with 10 years of Green Lantern continuity when Hal returned for GL Rebirth? Nope. The same can be said here as well. I expect Nuperman to return at some point, cause it goes without saying, death of any kind is a complete joke these days, but if/when that actually transpires, the extent of his role will ultimately be the $60,000 dollar question.

    Will Nuperman be up front and center once again? Or will he be scaled back in a Kyle Rayner-esque way? That most certainly remains to be seen. Staying the course of what we have been getting fed by DC with Superman for well over 5 years now (and yeah, I'm talking pre-new52 as well) certainly isn't giving the company any winning numbers, and with the way DC tends to write themselves into a creative box, I'm perfectly fine with Post-Crisis Superman returning with a family and giving that direction a shot. To say it's corny now that he is a family man, has about as much merit as it does saying Batman is cheesy all the sudden cause he's taken on the responsibility of being a actual father now, rather than a surrogant father that has been the case for decades.

    Inclinations aside, I'm interested in how well DC can pull this new creative direction off. If it tanks hard, then DC could easily re-insert Nuperman back into the forefront, and go back to the regular New52 quo. That could be done quite easily.

    If the Rebirth direction gains any sort of traction, then I have a difficult time believing DC will just hand over the reigns back to a Superman that's practically selling at figures prior to the 2011 relaunch. That would be like putting Kyle Rayner back in the forefront of the GL books in 2006, just a few years after GL Rebirth, because "Damn, we gotta make those 10 years Kyle anchored the books count! The hell with that old man, Jordan!" Yeah, right.

    Anyways, I certainly understand the resentment some New52 fans have with this. I can't honestly say I was so upset to see Post-Crisis Superman go away in 2011 that I spent a abundant amount of time typing up my personal biases with the character, cause in actuality, I was fine, though not blown away, with what Morrison laid down with his Action Comics run with New52 Superman. Wasn't crazy about all the other stuff, and when I say other stuff I mean stories/editorial decisions/creative departures/ect, but the Morrison/Action run in beginning was solid atleast. What followed, atleast to me, was, ehh .... medicore.
    Kyle Ryner and Hal Jordan are different characters not different versions of the same character. The only viable version if for New 52 Superman to come back and take his rightful place as the main Superman of the current continuity. What they need to stop doing is: The depowerings, the "bat-dependence, and the god damned crossovers.

  3. #243
    Astonishing Member DieHard200904's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Backwoods of Pennsylvania
    Posts
    3,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    Kyle Ryner and Hal Jordan are different characters not different versions of the same character. The only viable version if for New 52 Superman to come back and take his rightful place as the main Superman of the current continuity. What they need to stop doing is: The depowerings, the "bat-dependence, and the god damned crossovers.
    If this new reign of the Supermen goes through well enough, he will have a lot of alternative friends to Batman, that I hope that they put to use.

  4. #244
    Back for noon feeding The Shredder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Snacking in Amity waters
    Posts
    308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    Kyle Ryner and Hal Jordan are different characters not different versions of the same character. The only viable version if for New 52 Superman to come back and take his rightful place as the main Superman of the current continuity. What they need to stop doing is: The depowerings, the "bat-dependence, and the god damned crossovers.
    There's more than enough evidence to differentiate Post-Crisis Superman and New52 Superman. Not unlike Hal and Kyle. Them being different versions of the character of Superman is pretty much a non-issue these days. Especially with DC clearly embracing the multiverse concept (yeah ... different Supermen), where say back in 1994, or to a lesser extent, 2004, not so much.

    The only viable option is to get people back on board the Superman titles. Which is DC intent with the direction of Rebirth, and essentially the case back in 1994/2004 as well. Being married to a specific version isn't of much concern to DC. They've made that fairly clear over the years, wouldn't you say? And I'm not just talking about Superman/Green Lantern either.

  5. #245
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,084

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shredder View Post
    There's more than enough evidence to differentiate Post-Crisis Superman and New52 Superman. Not unlike Hal and Kyle. Them being different versions of the character of Superman is pretty much a non-issue these days. Especially with DC clearly embracing the multiverse concept (yeah ... different Supermen), where say back in 1994, or to a lesser extent, 2004, not so much.

    The only viable option is to get people back on board the Superman titles. Which is DC intent with the direction of Rebirth, and essentially the case back in 1994/2004 as well. Being married to a specific version isn't of much concern to DC. They've made that fairly clear over the years, wouldn't you say? And I'm not just talking about Superman/Green Lantern either.
    There are different Supermen living in different universes. Each one with his own continuity. What they're doing with rebirth is completely new territory AND isn't at all like what they did with Hal and Kyle. They both were part of the same continuity and were two different characters not related with each other at all. People will be back on board when New 52 comes back fully powered, with few crossovers and more interactions with his original cast of characters. That's what they should have done instead of rehashing an already defunct continuity. Superman works better as a young single man. I really have no interest at all in Superman as a middle aged husband and father. They need to go back to the blueprint created by Morrison. The idealistic, socially conscious young journalist of Metropolis, the champion of the oppressed who doesn't take crap from bullies and the genius alien demigod.

  6. #246
    Incredible Member SuperCrab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shredder View Post
    The only viable option is to get people back on board the Superman titles. Which is DC intent with the direction of Rebirth, and essentially the case back in 1994/2004 as well.
    Well, it didn't work for me. Before the news hit of what they were going to do, I was subscribed to every Superman title they had. I've already dropped most of them. I'll be down to just Justice League of America two weeks from Wednesday as the last issues of the last three other DC Comics titles I have that I'm interested in come out and I drop my subscriptions to those. So, from like 9 subs (Granted, some were miniseries that were going to end anyway) to 1 sub. And that 1 sub is just through the end of the storyline or when I get bored of it, whichever comes first.

    DC Comics did, however, prompt me to look into other comics from other publishers, and now I'm subscribed 3 Marvel comics (Up from 0) and 1 Image Comic (Up from 0).

    Kind of backfired on them a little bit there.

    You don't have to kill off your lead character to expand your line. I understand that they are going to use Clark's death to explain the guy in China and Super Woman and whatever, but, look, these are comic books, you can explain it any way you want, maybe he just gives off these solar versions of himself for a while and then he gets cured and stops giving them off, but the people who already have them, have them. Problem solved.

    Similarly, you don't have to kill of new52 Superman to do a SuperDad comic book either. They were actually doing one, called Lois and Clark, while they were doing new52 books. Granted, the Lois and Clark premise was a bit boring, but they could have easily just moved SuperDad back into his own universe and had him be that Superman again, or had him take on another role in the current DCU where he got out more. No death required.

    I'm less likely to buy the other comics they putting out because of this, not that I really want a whole line of books about random Superman knockoffs anyway. But you're more likely to sell me on them if you don't kill off my favorite character than if you do- good will versus bad bill when I'm evaluating their future offerings can make a difference between sale and no sale. And I had good will towards their line until they make this choice, and now I kind of don't want to support them, unless something overwhelms me and I think "I'll really enjoy this and shouldn't let DC Comic's bad decisions keep me from purchasing something I'll really enjoy". But for borderline calls, which these all are, it probably tips me in the no direction.

    I don't want a Super-family in the way Batman has a Batman family anyway. I don't like Batman's Bat-family. I like the idea of Superman by himself and with the Justice League, and Clark Kent (aka Superman, not whatever weird stuff they are doing in Rebirth) working at the Daily Planet with the familiar characters there.

    I just want a Superman book. If DC Comics doesn't want to sell me that, screw 'em. I don't need to buy anything from them. They're not a charity I'm trying to help out. They've got to give me something I want to read, and it's pretty iffy.

    I don't consider SuperDad and SuperJon versus the world a real Superman book for the purpose of the above paragraph, BTW.

    I could see myself buying individual issues of something that people tell me Jon isn't really in much, possibly. But even there it's a bit tricky, because do I want to buy issue 1 of a story arc and then find out "Oh, now it's about SuperJon" and just have part 1 of a story? I might be better off skipping the whole thing, so it's not like Part 1 of one arc, Part 2 of a different arc, Part 1 of a third arc, etc.. They've basically made their Superman books very hard for me to buy given my preferences.

    The Superman title from the solicts is really all Jon for the first 3-4 issues, so that's totally out. Ironically, it's Jurgens Action Comics were the solicits don't seem to focus on Jon that heavily, but should I really buy that as reflecting reality based on the interview in the first post of the thread?

    If I buy from DC Comics, it's probably going to be back catalog new52 Superman titles where I've missed some special series or a random issue here or there. Maybe something non-Superman related. If anything. I don't know.

    I'm not committing to anything or ruling anything out, except to say that they've certainly lost me as someone who'll just tell them to charge my card and make the issues available to me when they come out digitally.

    Maybe they'll have more luck with the world at large, but I think the type of new subscribers they are chasing are people who have largely moved on from comics, passed away, or whatever. I don't know who a cornball series about a 10 year old superhero and SuperDad appeals to me as a like a demographic, but it doesn't seem like something new52 Superman fans would like, the kid is a big change from the Pre-Flashpoint Superman so you can't count on all those fans liking it (Assuming they are even interested in coming back to buying comics), and it's not a good ploy to get new fans in the mix (Presumably new fans would want something *more* edgy and modern, not less edgy and modern, right?).

    It's their business, though.
    Last edited by SuperCrab; 05-13-2016 at 08:37 PM.

  7. #247
    Back for noon feeding The Shredder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Snacking in Amity waters
    Posts
    308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    There are different Supermen living in different universes. Each one with his own continuity.
    They were living in different universes. Hasn't been the case for quite awhile now if we're going to take a literal look at DCU continuity now.


    What they're doing with rebirth is completely new territory AND isn't at all like what they did with Hal and Kyle. They both were part of the same continuity and were two different characters not related with each other at all.
    It harkens back to Hal/Kyle, as well as Barry/Wally, sure. No one in their right mind would say it's the same extact thing like those examples, but it's one hero taking over the flagship from another already established hero who's been anchoring the books for years. Pure and simple. I'm not sure what being related has to do with anything? Continuity isn't being thrown out with the bathwater here, and if the New52 has done anything to train it's readership, it's that they have been much more receptive of characters from the Multiverse than, say, the 1986-2005 Post-Crisis years.

    People will be back on board when New 52 comes back fully powered, with few crossovers and more interactions with his original cast of characters. That's what they should have done instead of rehashing an already defunct continuity. Superman works better as a young single man. I really have no interest at all in Superman as a middle aged husband and father. They need to go back to the blueprint created by Morrison. The idealistic, socially conscious young journalist of Metropolis, the champion of the oppressed who doesn't take crap from bullies and the genius alien demigod.
    I think DC's approach is to make a big splash for Superman. How big of a splash that has, and will hold, remains to be seen. Simply going back to the basics, when we're at practically 2010 levels of sales, isn't a viable option. Atleast not in DC's estimation, and as a business who's clearly not married to any particular version of Superman, unlike some of it's readership, that's an understandable decision that they have made. Like I said, if Post-Crisis Superman headlining the books doesn't work, DC can easily re-insert New52Superman back in the fore front. They can also cross their fingers, and hope for the best while they're at it.

    Unfortunately, DC can't always fall back on Morrison to write the character, and I think the writing/editorial decisions/mandates since his tenure (or hell even during his tenure on Action since the "SUPERMAN" title book was in complete disarray for awhile there, and let's not get started on New52 Superboy), have left readers slowly but surely disinterested, and thus canceled their subscriptions to everything Superman.

    Which is sad considering the amount of cross-over media attention Superman has been enjoying in recent years.

  8. #248
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperCrab View Post
    Well, it didn't work for me. Before the news hit of what they were going to do, I was subscribed to every Superman title they had. I've already dropped most of them. I'll be down to just Justice League of America two weeks from Wednesday as the last issues of the last three other DC Comics titles I have that I'm interested in come out and I drop my subscriptions to those. So, from like 9 subs (Granted, some were miniseries that were going to end anyway) to 1 sub. And that 1 sub is just through the end of the storyline or when I get bored of it, whichever comes first.

    DC Comics did, however, prompt me to look into other comics from other publishers, and now I'm subscribed 3 Marvel comics (Up from 0) and 1 Image Comic (Up from 0).

    Kind of backfired on them a little bit there.

    You don't have to kill off your lead character to expand your line. I understand that they are going to use Clark's death to explain the guy in China and Super Woman and whatever, but, look, these are comic books, you can explain it any way you want, maybe he just gives off these solar versions of himself for a while and then he gets cured and stops giving them off, but the people who already have them, have them. Problem solved.

    Similarly, you don't have to kill of new52 Superman to do a SuperDad comic book either. They were actually doing one, called Lois and Clark, while they were doing new52 books. Granted, the Lois and Clark premise was a bit boring, but they could have easily just moved SuperDad back into his own universe and had him be that Superman again, or had him take on another role in the current DCU where he got out more. No death required.

    I'm less likely to buy the other comics they putting out because of this, not that I really want a whole line of books about random Superman knockoffs anyway. But you're more likely to sell me on them if you don't kill off my favorite character than if you do- good will versus bad bill when I'm evaluating their future offerings can make a difference between sale and no sale. And I had good will towards their line until they make this choice, and now I kind of don't want to support them, unless something overwhelms me and I think "I'll really enjoy this and shouldn't let DC Comic's bad decisions keep me from purchasing something I'll really enjoy". But for borderline calls, which these all are, it probably tips me in the no direction.

    I don't want a Super-family in the way Batman has a Batman family anyway. I don't like Batman's Bat-family. I like the idea of Superman by himself and with the Justice League, and Clark Kent (aka Superman, not whatever weird stuff they are doing in Rebirth) working at the Daily Planet with the familiar characters there.

    I just want a Superman book. If DC Comics doesn't want to sell me that, screw 'em. I don't need to buy anything from them. They're not a charity I'm trying to help out. They've got to give me something I want to read, and it's pretty iffy.

    I don't consider SuperDad and SuperJon versus the world a real Superman book for the purpose of the above paragraph, BTW.

    I could see myself buying individual issues of something that people tell me Jon isn't really in much, possibly. But even there it's a bit tricky, because do I want to buy issue 1 of a story arc and then find out "Oh, now it's about SuperJon" and just have part 1 of a story? I might be better off skipping the whole thing, so it's not like Part 1 of one arc, Part 2 of a different arc, Part 1 of a third arc, etc.. They've basically made their Superman books very hard for me to buy given my preferences.

    The Superman title from the solicts is really all Jon for the first 3-4 issues, so that's totally out. Ironically, it's Jurgens Action Comics were the solicits don't seem to focus on Jon that heavily, but should I really buy that as reflecting reality based on the interview in the first post of the thread?

    If I buy from DC Comics, it's probably going to be back catalog new52 Superman titles where I've missed some special series or a random issue here or there. Maybe something non-Superman related. If anything. I don't know.

    I'm not committing to anything or ruling anything out, except to say that they've certainly lost me as someone who'll just tell them to charge my card and make the issues available to me when they come out digitally.

    Maybe they'll have more luck with the world at large, but I think the type of new subscribers they are chasing are people who have largely moved on from comics, passed away, or whatever. I don't know who a cornball series about a 10 year old superhero and SuperDad appeals to me as a like a demographic, but it doesn't seem like something new52 Superman fans would like, the kid is a big change from the Pre-Flashpoint Superman so you can't count on all those fans liking it (Assuming they are even interested in coming back to buying comics), and it's not a good ploy to get new fans in the mix (Presumably new fans would want something *more* edgy and modern, not less edgy and modern, right?).

    It's their business, though.
    Um...can't you make your post shorter please? Lol

  9. #249
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,084

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DieHard200904 View Post
    If this new reign of the Supermen goes through well enough, he will have a lot of alternative friends to Batman, that I hope that they put to use.
    I hope so. Still there are plenty of character he could be hanging out with instead of "Let's dumb you down so you don't make him look useless" Batman.

  10. #250
    Back for noon feeding The Shredder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Snacking in Amity waters
    Posts
    308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperCrab View Post
    Well, it didn't work for me. Before the news hit of what they were going to do, I was subscribed to every Superman title they had. I've already dropped most of them. I'll be down to just Justice League of America two weeks from Wednesday as the last issues of the last three other DC Comics titles I have that I'm interested in come out and I drop my subscriptions to those. So, from like 9 subs (Granted, some were miniseries that were going to end anyway) to 1 sub. And that 1 sub is just through the end of the storyline or when I get bored of it, whichever comes first.

    DC Comics did, however, prompt me to look into other comics from other publishers, and now I'm subscribed 3 Marvel comics (Up from 0) and 1 Image Comic (Up from 0).

    Kind of backfired on them a little bit there.
    Yeah, there's no doubt that a reader who is very married to a specific version of a character sees his or hers character killed off, or scaled back, it's not a pretty sight. Never has been, never will be. Evidently DC believes that they don't have much to lose by kicking said version of character to the curb.

    Wonder what gave them that impression?


    You don't have to kill off your lead character to expand your line. I understand that they are going to use Clark's death to explain the guy in China and Super Woman and whatever, but, look, these are comic books, you can explain it any way you want, maybe he just gives off these solar versions of himself for a while and then he gets cured and stops giving them off, but the people who already have them, have them. Problem solved.

    Similarly, you don't have to kill of new52 Superman to do a SuperDad comic book either. They were actually doing one, called Lois and Clark, while they were doing new52 books. Granted, the Lois and Clark premise was a bit boring, but they could have easily just moved SuperDad back into his own universe and had him be that Superman again, or had him take on another role in the current DCU where he got out more. No death required.
    Oh, there's a alot of things DC could have done besides writing themselves into a creative box, and that goes all the way back to 2011. That much we agree on. Unfortunately, that's DC's approach to their line of comics. Either like it, or don't. Take it or leave it. That's been crystal clear for a long time now.

    Maybe they'll have more luck with the world at large, but I think the type of new subscribers they are chasing are people who have largely moved on from comics, passed away, or whatever. I don't know who a cornball series about a 10 year old superhero and SuperDad appeals to me as a like a demographic, but it doesn't seem like something new52 Superman fans would like, the kid is a big change from the Pre-Flashpoint Superman so you can't count on all those fans liking it (Assuming they are even interested in coming back to buying comics), and it's not a good ploy to get new fans in the mix (Presumably new fans would want something *more* edgy and modern, not less edgy and modern, right?).

    It's their business, though.
    Presumably, you would think so. That fans want something more edgy, more modern. Sure. Though at the same time, I think going into a Superman book looking for that particular type of fix is, honestly, not the best place to start. I pretty much knew this right from the start when I first began reading Superman in the early 1990's, and was fine with it. If I wanted something really edgy, Superman or hey, Captain America wasn't where I went and blindly hoped to get. Some characters just appeal to a certain readership because of it's flavor. As a young teen, alot of my friends didn't really care for Superman and preferred "edgier" characters, and that was fine. I liked Superman because I needed a break from all that jazz, and those books provided that escape.

    Everyone's got their preferences, and clearly you have yours, but you're speaking with your wallet, so good for you. As for me, I'm picking up the Rebirth books, but I don't know how long I'm staying on board. Only reading the books will tell me that. If it's a bust for me, I'm out. Much like how I was out with New52 Superman after a little over 2 years, which evidently, I sure wasn't the only one opting out.

  11. #251
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Planet Houston
    Posts
    5,071

    Default

    All I know is TRUTH drove me away after not missing an issue for over 20 years. Now granted ive slowly been catching up, and being pure digital makes dropping books easier than when I was purely paper, but other than American Alien and JUSTICE LEAGUE, I was on a Super sabatical for 6 months. I didn't leave through New Krypton or GROUNDED or He'll or Doomed etc. I rejoined officially with Superman #50 and #51 and plan to stick around for a few more months at least. Ive even thought about going back to paper for ACTION since its resuming it's correct numbering. While I'm not convinced disenfranchising Nuperman fans is the way to go, I am feeling at least a little bit of excitement for the Superman line again that I haven't felt in two years. My allegance is to good stories first and foremost. Will this new set up get us to that? We will see.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •