New Dan Jurgens Interview About Action Comics, Rebirth, and SuperDad

[Majesty]

Let's not pretend that sales of DC Comics, or Superman titles, have remained consistent for 4-5 years following the 52 reboot. There's been highs and lows, and a pattern of sales declining that would be viewed as quite negative to not only DC, but probably the brass above even them. If the idea was to just let business go as usual UNTIL the sales get to that 2010 level, obviously that's not a plan anyone in their right business mind would be too keen on.

Superman, in particular, not only received alot of attention from the comic book readership thanks to being one of DC's big guns for the 52 reboot (which of course got alot of advertising), but also has very much remained in the public consciousness thanks to MOS, Injustice, and more recently BvS, along with the association of Supergirl on CBS. If anything, and if we were to compare the final 5 years of 'SuperDad' 2007-2011 to the New52 run (2011-current), the latter has had much more cross promotion than the Post-Crisis/Pre-Flashpoint Superman ever enjoyed. Which was in 2007, the already-in-progress Smallville show on CW, and Superman Returns the previous year (which was 2006, but let's be generous and count it). Depending on one's view, the SR could be viewed as either a positive or negative...

But ... hey. Atleast Superman comic sales are still above those 2010 numbers, right!?!

Yeah, I think DC and WB are painfully aware the entire line needed a change. We can argue/debate whether the change is too drastic, or sit and complain because someone's feelings got hurt due to DC deciding on the switch, but a serious shakeup, was most assuredly required. Just as it was in 2011. Though the Superman line desperately needs a steady and clear vision in direction. Which wasn't something the New52 run got.

[HsssH]

You're blowing the idea out of its natural implication. I don't exclude it. The idea that, for whatever reason Superman stops being so nice and it requires the League (or really just Batman, but basically capable heroes he respects and can literally trust with his life) to bring him down, is a thoroughly hammered point that DC has made repeatedly over the last 30 years. Yes, however it started out, it has happened in continuity because it's a story you can't really ignore.

Being able to be brainwashed or otherwise corrupted in any other way doesn't mean he was evil in the first place or that they might as well make him evil, it just means he's not perfect and not immune to corruption. I wish it wasn't used frequently, but it's a valid concept. If it wasn't, Lex would be a lesser character.

Thats an interesting angle that I never really thought about before.


As for these who is selling who is not and why arguments, I think its tricky:

1. I'm of opinion that character like Superman, Batman and Spider-Man have core base of buyers that are always buying/following these characters. So switching out different versions or "killing" them doesn't do much in the long run asides of short burst of publicity.
2. Then there are bunch of people who might jump in/jump out depending on the direction. But if we look back 10-20 years then we will be hard pressed to say that one or another version of Superman is really a better seller.
3. What we do know is that Lois/Clark wasn't selling well so there really isn't any "hot demand" for this version either. Furthermore its hard to say if there is any genuine interest in him at all (asides of 50 people on the internet, half of whom don't buy comics anyway) or were most of theses sales to Superman collectors who tend to buy everything Superman related either way.
4. When title is published more often than once a month its sales usually drop (Spider-Man dropped by like 20k once it went to 3-times a month) because not every previous buyers is willing to buy it twice as often, especially if he was on the fence already.
5. These days good chunk of sales is driven by creative teams. Superman and Action creative teams don't really scream "super star" and are unlikely to attract more people than Pak or Romita.
6. People don't really like confusion and it seams that this new direction might be rather confusing.

Basically, I think that sales will drop to new lows after few months once variant covers and marketing push ends. I think that when that happens you'll see lots of people saying how Superdad is a sales disaster while technically it not being entirely his fault.

[Sacred Knight]

Man, remember when we were all terrified as an absolute ridiculous worst-case scenario that the two Supermen might get merged, and now we're all scrounging for any possibility at all that that might be the case because what they're actually going with has defied every last one of the odds to somehow be so much dumber?

Fun times. More optimistic times, certainly.

The end result vastly exceeded my worst nightmare scenario. At absolute worst I was fearing Superdad getting Action and Superman on his namesake title. Never did I imagine them actually having Superdad take over everything and killing off Superman completely. If you would have told me last year something like that was in the cards I would have denied it to the end not believing they could possibly be that stupid. That'll teach me for being a long time apologist for them.

If only the move never happened. No move, no Convergence, no Convergence, no return of pre-Flashpoint Superman. No return of pre-Flashpoint Superman, no dumb concept of sticking him on the main Earth. No dumb concept of sticking him on the main Earth, and he's not available to use for a panic move revamp that wasn't necessary in the first place. The move to Burbank could go down in history as being beginning of the end for Superman in DC Comics.

[edwardsdv]

The end result vastly exceeded my worst nightmare scenario. At absolute worst I was fearing Superdad getting Action and Superman on his namesake title. Never did I imagine them actually having Superdad take over everything and killing off Superman completely. If you would have told me last year something like that was in the cards I would have denied it to the end not believing they could possibly be that stupid. That'll teach me for being a long time apologist for them.

If only the move never happened. No move, no Convergence, no Convergence, no return of pre-Flashpoint Superman. No return of pre-Flashpoint Superman, no dumb concept of sticking him on the main Earth. No dumb concept of sticking him on the main Earth, no nightmare as it currently stands. The move to Burbank could go down in history as being beginning of the end for Superman in DC Comics.

I am pretty down on Jughead Jurgens myself but honestly I now WANT the end game to be Jon White taking over as Superman if they arent bringing back ole N52. (my ideal is that this entire setup is to give us a good superboy and SuperDad retires within 20 issues or so but thats looking pipe dreamy)

Anything that isn't Superman and Lois from another dimension frankly. After all this universe, in a strange perverse way, is Jon White's universe in the same way that Earth is Kal-El's home. Strange as it sounds I have high hopes for the lad and hope he does well and that Tomasi can give him a unique voice and salvage his so far super annoying start in Jughead Jurgens L&C comic.

[Sacred Knight]

I'd destroy the whole thing if I could. I'd bring in Harvest, because a dumb idea deserves a dumb villain, and have him corrupt Jon and turn him evil. Utilize Lobdell's ideas and bring it full circle that it happens no matter what. He disappears into the timestream with Jon as his father gives chase but cannot catch them in time. A few days later the duo returns but for them years have passed and Jon is in his late teens (for anyone who watched Angel, think the situation with Connor). Jon pretends that he's rejected Harvest's teachings but then kills his parents, and sets it up as an accident or frames someone else for it (Lex perhaps), then takes over as the new, Better Superman. He's dark, he kills, he drives away his extended family (think Az-Bats freaking out Robin and the others during Knightquest). He loses his ****, basically becomes a new Superboy Prime in characterization, and its up to a returned proper Earth-0 Superman to save the day. He contains him but the character lives on and Jon White/Superman becomes known as the quintessential "Evil Superman" of the multiverse and a constant Big Bad threat.

Yes, I'm totally serious. I'd do this, and I'd read the hell out of it if someone else did it. Its born out of extreme bitterness, I wouldn't even attempt to deny that, but anything to drive this into the ground and make it the huge mistake in the actual lore that it actually will turn out to be in practice.

[manofsteel1979]

Man, remember when we were all terrified as an absolute ridiculous worst-case scenario that the two Supermen might get merged, and now we're all scrounging for any possibility at all that that might be the case because what they're actually going with has defied every last one of the odds to somehow be so much dumber?

Fun times. More optimistic times, certainly.

I still think just merging the Supermen is dumb on it's own,but if it's because the New 52 and Pre-Flashpoint timelines merge and not just Superman alone, it would be FAR better then what this may turn out to be. If we had an editor that could be trusted and a creative team that could make something interesting out of this concept of swapping one Supes for another for awhile, then I'd say go for it. Instead, we are likely getting Eddie Berganza still as editor and while I don't share the dislike of Jurgens some do here, he is NOT the right guy for something like this, and as I've always said, he's a better artist than writer.

[vasir12]

All arguments aside, I actually really don't believe nuSuperman will die. I don't know why, something seems off about the whole thing. Like a red herring is being played here.

[DieHard200904]

I think Superduper is onto something, and really it's the only explanation that makes sense. Warners execs probably wanted Superman to reflect his film self and let's face it, preFlashpoint was much closer to that than New 52 is. As illogical as some of Didio and Lee's decisions have been, I don't think something like this originated from them given how obsessed they seemed with undoing the Super Marriage and side lining Lois Lane, and now suddenly they do a 180 degree turn? Doesn't smell right.

What doesn't smell right is how they aren't willing to pull a Kal-L marriage equivalent. Honestly, they could have had two running Supermen for the New 52 and a series similar to Earth One for the Pre-Flashpoint, and further examine in increments how life after Grounded went. I know it sounds similar to what Marvel did with its Ultimate and 616, but it honestly would have been an "Everybody Wins" approach. Let's face it, some people would like the Post-Flashpoint, Some would like the Pre-Flashpoint, some would even like both, because of the some liking one, another, or both, you could stand to sell more total comics with Superman in the title. As for now, it only looks to me like they have an itchy retcon/reboot trigger finger.

[DieHard200904]

All arguments aside, I actually really don't believe nuSuperman will die. I don't know why, something seems off about the whole thing. Like a red herring is being played here.

It feels to me like they are trying to treat Superman like Batman, where they had Gordon running around in a bunnysuit for a while.

[Last Son]

I am pretty down on Jughead Jurgens myself but honestly I now WANT the end game to be Jon White taking over as Superman if they arent bringing back ole N52. (my ideal is that this entire setup is to give us a good superboy and SuperDad retires within 20 issues or so but thats looking pipe dreamy)

Anything that isn't Superman and Lois from another dimension frankly. After all this universe, in a strange perverse way, is Jon White's universe in the same way that Earth is Kal-El's home. Strange as it sounds I have high hopes for the lad and hope he does well and that Tomasi can give him a unique voice and salvage his so far super annoying start in Jughead Jurgens L&C comic.

So if you can't have New 52 Superman, you'd rather not have any version of Clark Kent/Kal-El at all and instead retire him in favor of a legacy character?

[JBatmanFan05]

DC only had two good routes here and has chosen against one of them and the other is still possible:
1) Super Merger: Merge N52 and pre-FP Superman...only good option left
2) Full reversion to the pre-Flashpoint Earth-0 and Superman (DC is apparently not going this route)

New 52 Superman was broken. Too many changes and incoherence and bad ideas (Sup/WW, etc).

Super Merge is the best option left. If you kill off Pre-FP Superman, there will be very understandable rage, for all my Byrne criticisms, pre-FP Supes was much better overall. And yes, Super Merge will require retelling Superman's origin and all. DC overall has to go more classic with Superman, more classic and more simple.

[Darkspellmaster]

Here's the thing, I think if they go with the merger, then Clark (the mix) will stay with the family. He'll probably have more Pre FP superman in him then Nu52 Superman. As for Lois and the marriage being boring, here's the thing as others have stated, it depends on the writer. Some writers can do romance and character development in a mature way with the idea of a married person with a family, and then there are those that view Superman as basically a YA character that just gets to the point where he gets married and the sexual tension vanishes. There's a lot you can do with the idea of clark being married to Lois in regard to the idea of being an Alien and how the family relates to things. Sensuality can work well in the story as well.

[Sacred Knight]

DC only had two good routes here and has chosen against one of them and the other is still possible:
1) Super Merger: Merge N52 and pre-FP Superman...only good option left
2) Full reversion to the pre-Flashpoint Earth-0 and Superman (DC is apparently not going this route)

New 52 Superman was broken. Too many changes and incoherence and bad ideas (Sup/WW, etc).

Super Merge is the best option left. If you kill off Pre-FP Superman, there will be very understandable rage, for all my Byrne criticisms, pre-FP Supes was much better overall. And yes, Super Merge will require retelling Superman's origin and all. DC overall has to go more classic with Superman, more classic and more simple.

The best option in my mind is to bring back New 52 Superman and send the Superfamily back to a rediscovered pre-FP Earth that from that point forward serves as the equivalent as to what Earth Two was pre-Crisis. He's not broken. Not even close. I mean, using your SM/WW example...they don't want them together anymore? Break 'em up. Easy as pie. They're not married so you don't run into any of those problems. No fuss, no muss, no complicated retcons or start-overs needed. Its just a relationship. When you're done, you end it. And it'd be no issue going forward because sexual tension was a hallmark of their relationship in every incarnation prior in the first place. Nothing would be different there other than the fact that they actually had a go of it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the New 52 Superman that, if they saw a current idea as a problem, couldn't have just been changed or dropped organically. There was nothing unalterable about the character that had painted them into a corner.

The merger is just as if not more complicated than the crap they're doing now. A full on backtracking of the DCU as a whole back to pre-FP Earth would be better than both a merging idea, and what they're doing now. They've simply taken an unfathomably convoluted and confusing approach to fix a problem they didn't have. Its just a testament to their cluelessness with this character.

[Tayswift]

DC only had two good routes here and has chosen against one of them and the other is still possible:
1) Super Merger: Merge N52 and pre-FP Superman...only good option left
2) Full reversion to the pre-Flashpoint Earth-0 and Superman (DC is apparently not going this route)

New 52 Superman was broken. Too many changes and incoherence and bad ideas (Sup/WW, etc).

Super Merge is the best option left. If you kill off Pre-FP Superman, there will be very understandable rage, for all my Byrne criticisms, pre-FP Supes was much better overall. And yes, Super Merge will require retelling Superman's origin and all. DC overall has to go more classic with Superman, more classic and more simple.

Merger is th ebest option to have the marriage and the Kid. It is just a expansion on new 52 continuity

I don't think they need to retell superman origin, just adress it quickly, like 4 or 6 recap pages, just we know what counts and what doean't.

[manofsteel1979]

The best option in my mind is to bring back New 52 Superman and send the Superfamily back to a rediscovered pre-FP Earth that from that point forward serves as the equivalent as to what Earth Two was pre-Crisis. He's not broken. Not even close. I mean, using your SM/WW example...they don't want them together anymore? Break 'em up. Easy as pie. They're not married so you don't run into any of those problems. No fuss, no muss, no complicated retcons or start-overs needed. Its just a relationship. When you're done, you end it. And it'd be no issue going forward because sexual tension was a hallmark of their relationship in every incarnation prior in the first place. Nothing would be different there other than the fact that they actually had a go of it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the New 52 Superman that, if they saw a current idea as a problem, couldn't have just been changed or dropped organically. There was nothing unalterable about the character that had painted them into a corner.

The merger is just as if not more complicated than the crap they're doing now. A full on backtracking of the DCU as a whole back to pre-FP Earth would be better than both a merging idea, and what they're doing now. They've simply taken an unfathomably convoluted and confusing approach to fix a problem they didn't have. Its just a testament to their cluelessness with this character.

They could have had the entire New 52 do a five year time skip. Any aspects of the preFlashpoint continuity you want back, just have it take place within the "missing" 5 years. I mean, it's not like they've really fleshed out the 5 year gap between Jl#1 and Superman #1 anyhow, so what would another hurt? Fill in the blanks as time allows later, but that would be a quick and easy way to get New 52 Superman ( and other properties) to resemble their pre FLASHPOINT selves more without disenfranchising people and making things unnecessarily complicated.