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  1. #16
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Holy crap the actual driving force behind the Superman line actually is Jon lol

    Lol I think I owe SuperCrab an apology.

    But with that said, I sorta feel a little better. He made it clear that the idea behind the family dynamic and the birth of a kid was progression and looking to the future. So that's at least nice in theory.

    I'll obviously wait and see what's up.

    But, it's strange coming from me, but no one's said anything to to turn me off just yet lol

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    This actually makes me feel worse. The main drive behind this isn't even Superman, its some new character who hasn't even proven he has legs yet. This is the same thing that happened in BvS. Superman's arc in that story wasn't for Superman, it was so Batman could be the one to form the Justice League. Now New 52 Superman is being killed off, replaced with a copy of some post-Crisis era Superman that's indescernible....and its not because its the best for Suprman. Its so they can push this unproven kid. This just makes DC look even more stupid. Oh, and this same character existed more than a year before Convergence. They HAD a son of Clark and Lois as Superboy already if they wanted to push that idea. Instead you go through all this, completely turn Superman's mythos in this continuity upside down, to push what in the end is a gamble? They're idiots.

    At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they end up killing off the doppleganger too, age Jon,and have him be the actual Superman. Becuase they sure as hell act like they have no interest in Kal-El/Clark Kent anymore. No division of DC acts like it. The disrespect he's given is just astonishing. And that particular criticism I don't levy at Jurgens. I know he loves the character. He may write what I feel is an outdated version, but he loves him. Its too bad DC clearly does not.

    I remember back in the day I'd roll my eyes at fans who said the best thing that could happen to Superman would be if Marvel ever got the rights to him. The day has finally come where I believe that to genuinely be true.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 04-08-2016 at 10:43 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  3. #18
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Talking about anyone becoming a "possible future Superman" is nothing more than a gimmick having nothing to do with getting the character. In fact it leans more in the direction of not getting him if one truly believed that, which I don't think Jurgens really does. Superman is not a legacy character. That's just code for "DC wants to hype this kid up and shove him down the collective's throats so get ready for it; this is the justification". The "future" Superman is the same guy. There is no replacement or heir outside of imaginary tales (well, I guess now that's not true anymore since they're replacing Superman right now). Didn't fly when they tried to force it with Kon-El and it won't fly with this kid. If creatively they're serious about the character then have him forge his own identity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    This actually makes me feel worse. The main drive behind this isn't even Superman, its some new character who hasn't even proven he has legs yet.
    It's weird, I took it more as the next step in Clark's life as a guy. Sorta like the saying "a child changes everything" or whatever. Because you're right, Superman isn't a legacy character. He's a man. This is now the next part of a man's life. This isn't his heir or his student any more or less than a son is that to his dad. Jon's just his son. Now Clark has to deal with that idea. What does that change with the action ace Superman? A part of me has always wanted to see that given a real fair go. Maybe we shouldn't think of it just in terms of Jon as a character, but Jon as an idea in relation to Clark. The man of tomorrows preview of tomorrow.

    But that's just how I read it/my opinion.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 04-08-2016 at 10:44 PM.

  4. #19
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Jason, Jon L. Kent and Chris Kent already waiting for the new Jon/Superboy to join them into the oblivion where he belongs.



    "Join us, Jon! Join us! You don't belong to the DC universe!"
    Last edited by Last Son of Krypton; 04-08-2016 at 11:46 PM.

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    There's just one word to sum up this unbelievable trainwreck.

    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  6. #21
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Jason, Jon L. Kent and Chris Kent already waiting for the new Jon/Superboy to join them into the oblivion where he belongs.



    "Join us, Jon! Join us! You don't belong to the DC universe!"
    Really sucks because none of those characters gave the idea of Superman's kid a fair shake. It was always "it's Superman's kid....but..." and then what ever they could think of to keep their other foot out the water.

    This is just about as close to "it's Superman's kid....and yeah" as we've ever gotten.

    It's almost like collectively the character has been too scared to have a kid. Sorta like why back when he was too scared to be tied down. There always had to be a "but"--an escape hatch. Now granted there is still a form of a "but" in the idea that they aren't native to the new 52, but (ha) it's a whole lot closer than anything else has gotten. So that's interesting.

    So I'm willing to sit and watch what tomorrow has in store for Clark.

  7. #22
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Really sucks because none of those characters gave the idea of Superman's kid a fair shake. It was always "it's Superman's kid....but..." and then what ever they could think of to keep their other foot out the water.

    This is just about as close to "it's Superman's kid....and yeah" as we've ever gotten.

    It's almost like collectively the character has been too scared to have a kid. Sorta like why back when he was too scared to be tied down. There always had to be a "but"--an escape hatch. Now granted there is still a form of a "but" in the idea that they aren't native to the new 52, but (ha) it's a whole lot closer than anything else has gotten. So that's interesting.

    So I'm willing to sit and watch what tomorrow has in store for Clark.
    It's just that they aren't good enough characters to stick around. In Jon Lane case, he turned the Superboy series into a convoluted mess to have to erase him from existence.
    Last edited by Last Son of Krypton; 04-08-2016 at 11:48 PM.

  8. #23
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    One of my biggest issues with this is the way that Superman's relationships to the people of this new universe will be entirely unnatural. Kara isn't his actual cousin. Its not his Batman. This Wonder WOman was in love with the Superman of this world and here's another version with a wife and child. NOw they are just going to let him into the justice league and the trinity when he's not their Superman. He's not this universe's last sone of Krypton. His krypton was totally different. His father didn't lock away the Phantom King. This Superman wasn't looked after by the phantom of Krypto. I just can't reconcile it.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member DieHard200904's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magha_regulus View Post
    One of my biggest issues with this is the way that Superman's relationships to the people of this new universe will be entirely unnatural. Kara isn't his actual cousin. Its not his Batman. This Wonder WOman was in love with the Superman of this world and here's another version with a wife and child. NOw they are just going to let him into the justice league and the trinity when he's not their Superman. He's not this universe's last sone of Krypton. His krypton was totally different. His father didn't lock away the Phantom King. This Superman wasn't looked after by the phantom of Krypto. I just can't reconcile it.
    Neither can I, plus there's two Lois Lanes. Is one of them going to be pushed to less relevance for not being Superwoman?

    IDK, but it would make more sense if you were going with two Supermen, one could be with an established Justice Society maybe? Or maybe be a reason for the founding of a Justice Society. But I prefer not to think about this confusing mess right now.
    Last edited by DieHard200904; 04-09-2016 at 12:27 AM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by magha_regulus View Post
    One of my biggest issues with this is the way that Superman's relationships to the people of this new universe will be entirely unnatural. Kara isn't his actual cousin. Its not his Batman. This Wonder WOman was in love with the Superman of this world and here's another version with a wife and child. NOw they are just going to let him into the justice league and the trinity when he's not their Superman. He's not this universe's last sone of Krypton. His krypton was totally different. His father didn't lock away the Phantom King. This Superman wasn't looked after by the phantom of Krypto. I just can't reconcile it.
    That's why New 52 Superman will be back eventually, likely for Action Comics #1000.

    I foresee New 52 Superman returning with Action Comics #1000 and Superman #52.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Wow, the level of bitterness here is surprising. So, let me see. When Superman first died and we had robo Superman, Kon, and Steel running around pushing the story forward, that was a-okay. When we had Roy taking the lead for some time and Conner Queen as Arsenal and Green Arrow, totally fine. We can have Damian playing a huge role in telling a complicated story over in batman and have several team books, and yet here, when a new character that could become just as popular as Kon and probably could be as popular as Damian, is automatically cut off at the legs because the writer decided, hey let's try to tell the story from what it was like for a very young superman to be discovering his powers in the main line rather then you know, redo yet another version of Clark gaining powers. This is something we haven't seen in a while, and the last time it was with Kon who was a lot older then Jon. Also, he's part human, what level does his powers go up to, and how does he react to things. Does Kryptonite even effect him? What happens under a red sun, etc.

    I get that people are disappointed in this change, but why not give it a chance? We're not even able to see in full writing what happens and between now and the date of the comic things might change up some.

  12. #27
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    My bitterness was actually dying down to tolerable levels until I found this out. I wasn't happy, but comfortable with my decision to move on. But when I see Superman treated like this it just irks me to no end. Its one thing to not be on board with a creative decision. The idea isn't for me, I vent about it, I move on when the time comes, that's that. Sometimes you get what you want and sometimes you don't. But man. when you do things to him not because you believe its in his best interests, but in the best interests of some lesser character you're trying to prop up, that just speaks volumes to me. I didn't think DC thought much of Superman anymore as it was, but now I believe they think even less of him than even I thought. He's just a prop anymore. And for heaven's sake the character deserves better than that.

    I dunno, I get people get irritated with the constant complaining. The venting is just therapeutic and everytime I think I'm over it I hear something else that drives me bonkers.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 04-09-2016 at 01:41 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    My bitterness was actually dying down to tolerable levels until I found this out. I wasn't happy, but comfortable with my decision to move on. But when I see Superman treated like this it just irks me to no end. Its one thing to not be on board with a creative decision. The idea isn't for me, I vent about it, I move on when the time comes, that's that. Sometimes you get what you want and sometimes you don't. But man. when you do things to him not because you believe its in his best interests, but in the best interests of some lesser character you're trying to prop up, that just speaks volumes to me. I didn't think DC thought much of Superman anymore as it was, but now I believe they think even less of him than even I thought. He's just a prop anymore. And for heaven's sake the character deserves better than that.
    I don't really see them using him as a prop for Jon. If anything I get the feeling that Jon is going to be like Damian. It took a while for Damian to be situated in the main bat books, believe me I hated the kid when he first came in because I really did not like the implications that lead to his conception, but, Grant's way of writing him with Dick and BMQ's work with him on Batgirl actually got me to like the kid. From what I"m getting off this is that they are trying to create a good Superboy because they really screwed over Kon and who he was, just like the screwed up Bart at the start. Ask the batgroup about how long Damian was in the front and center, and yes it was a good while. But they never used Dick as a means of proping up Damian, or at least the good writer's didn't.

    Dan's a good writer, not the greatest ever, I don't really think there's any writer without flaws, but he cares a lot about the character. I'm pretty sure that the story won't just be a piece for Jon, and that Superman will play a huge role in all of this. It's a very similar game that they played with Bruce when Damian came into the picture, and kind of also when Conner Queen did too back in the day. I"m going to have to re listen to the interview, but I get where you're coming from, and I understand. I get the feeling that the higher ups do want Jon to be the Damian here, but with a more optimistic bent. Given what happened to Kon I can see why they want to push him, they need to clear the air from the whole Kon to evil Jon debacle that happened. I'm not sure if you read the teen titan stuff when they were dealing with that, and mind you I liked the writer that was writing Kon's solo book at the time, Heck he's the creator of my favorite Marvel heroine Spider-girl, so I had trust in him. Then that whole thing came about and it all crashed.

    They need someone like Jon to fill that void. To, if you will, wash out the bad taste of the tragic actions done to Kon and Jon L. Kent. I would say, give it about a year for them to at least establish Jon, took about that long for Damian, or a little longer for Damian, and then you'll see a different balance like in the bat book.

    It just seemed to me that there's a ton of bitterness over this, not you directly Sacred knight, but others that I've seen on here. This is reaching something like the shouting matches that were going on on the Marvel boards with the AVX debacle, and I don't think the Superman fandom needs to be hemorrhaging anymore then it has been in the past.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ina heshima kwa Jumuia kama ka View Post
    That's why New 52 Superman will be back eventually, likely for Action Comics #1000.

    I foresee New 52 Superman returning with Action Comics #1000 and Superman #52.
    I'm not sure why you see The New 52 Superman returning, instead of another Reboot (or whatever they want to call it for PR reasons) that will give us another new version of Superman. They're coming pretty quick these days. (Which makes it very difficult for me to get interested in each new iteration of the new DCU - I have no reason to believe they're going to follow through on it rather than just junk it. Again.)
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    I'm not sure why you see The New 52 Superman returning, instead of another Reboot (or whatever they want to call it for PR reasons) that will give us another new version of Superman. They're coming pretty quick these days. (Which makes it very difficult for me to get interested in each new iteration of the new DCU - I have no reason to believe they're going to follow through on it rather than just junk it. Again.)
    I see him returning because I don't think the Post-Crisis family are going to be permanent residents of the New 52 Universe. As someone else already pointed out, they don't have the same connection to the New 52 characters that New 52 Superman does.

    Action Comics #1000 will arrive in two to three years, and I don't see DC rebooting again that soon, so it'll be New 52 Superman making his return and not a another version of the character.

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