New Dan Jurgens Interview About Action Comics, Rebirth, and SuperDad

[Doctor Bifrost]

Clark has never taken on a sidekick or a student of any sort.

Well, in the Silver Age, he took on Kara as his "secret weapon," trained her, instructed her on where to live, and decided for her when she could be "revealed to the world" as a superhero.

[Superlad93]

This was very well written.

Very nicely put. Hats off to you.

Thank you, both of you!

Well, in the Silver Age, he took on Kara as his "secret weapon," trained her, instructed her on where to live, and decided for her when she could be "revealed to the world" as a superhero.

Yes that does toe the lie quite a bit, but then she's never the equivalent of Robin or Kid Flash who are out and out partners to their respective heroes. When Kara is revealed to the world she's largely her own hero. She basically goes from learning from Clark to "Nightwing" in a very short time, and never stood in as "Robin".

But if I could amend something from my last post it would be that Clark has shown heroes with his powers how to use them, but they've never become his long term students to my knowledge. They're largely autonomous from Clark in a way that Robin's aren't.

[Superlad93]

And given he's going out of his way to make clear that this Superman will be the big leader (which buries New 52 Superman even further - fascinatingly, this is basically the Infinite Crisis story of the old version of Superman coming back and not really seeing the new world as up to snuff, except here he's symbolically being treated as right, at least by Jurgens. Which makes him a sensible Superman for a DC built on returning to the 'good old days'), that kills most of the stuff Superlad thought they could do with it in the cradle outside of maybe Trinity, unless different books take different philosophies, which seems unlikely given that Jurgens emphasized interconnectedness. I really can't believe they're taking a premise as gonzo as, essentially, Power Girl replacing Supergirl, making that same basic principle apply to the main character of the entire publishing line, and then going out of their way to make clear that they're going to do nothing interesting whatsoever with it. But then, that's how it's been going for Lois & Clark too.

Lol yeah man it's pretty hard to stay as optimistic as I am when Jurgens is sounding so white bread with this, in theory, super interesting concept. My only saving grace is the idea that maybe he just gives mediocre interview (plus it's for Superman Homepage which is a pretty Superman "conservative" space from what I've seen). Pak's best books would almost crackle with energy, but the man gives a pretty weak interview. I remember the double interview he gave side by side with Yang for Truth, and honestly I thought they got the names wrong on the Action Comics and Superman after that. But then with Jurgans he's already proven his less than progressive and exciting style (god, the dude seems to be such I nice guy I feel like such a jerk lol). But maybe a fire will be lit in him now that he's playing in the big leagues (aka out in the open).

But if the worst should come, I'm hoping we can get a fresh new writer (King or totally new to DC) to really stretch and bend this concept for all it's worth (which in my opinion is a lot). That same unexpected shot in the arm for the character that King's Vision book was for the character of the same name. Could you imagine such an imaginative eye coupled with this set up? The sky would be wouldn't be enough. In the meantime I'll really be looking at Trinity, Superman, and Super Sons for that exploring of the set up.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

My only saving grace is the idea that maybe he just gives mediocre interview (plus it's for Superman Homepage which is a pretty Superman "conservative" space from what I've seen). Pak's best books would almost crackle with energy, but the man gives a pretty weak interview. I remember the double interview he gave side by side with Yang for Truth, and honestly I thought they got the names wrong on the Action Comics and Superman after that. But then with Jurgans he's already proven his less than progressive and exciting style (god, the dude seems to be such I nice guy I feel like such a jerk lol). But maybe a fire will be lit in him now that he's playing in the big leagues (aka out in the open).

Maybe, but Pak already had Hulk and Hercules under his belt to speak on his behalf. Jurgens is Jurgens. And as far as lighting a fire under him, I haven't read all his other stuff from the period, but "Death of Superman" is planck temperature pressure, and that comic is tepid as all get-out. Hell, it's probably the weakest Superman comic to operate on that premise.

[HsssH]

And yet there are still more Super sons than Bat sons. I think if the idea can't stay inactive for at least 3 years, it's pretty bona fide. Continuity isn't a perfect excuse since logically, Jon couldn't have come about at any time before now.

I don't think that this argument really works considering that we get "Superman goes crazy evil" basically every year in some title featuring either alternate reality or characters from alternate reality. So by same reasoning its time to make main Superman evil because this idea just can't stay inactive for even couple of years.

[Kuwagaton]

You're blowing the idea out of its natural implication. I don't exclude it. The idea that, for whatever reason Superman stops being so nice and it requires the League (or really just Batman, but basically capable heroes he respects and can literally trust with his life) to bring him down, is a thoroughly hammered point that DC has made repeatedly over the last 30 years. Yes, however it started out, it has happened in continuity because it's a story you can't really ignore.

Being able to be brainwashed or otherwise corrupted in any other way doesn't mean he was evil in the first place or that they might as well make him evil, it just means he's not perfect and not immune to corruption. I wish it wasn't used frequently, but it's a valid concept. If it wasn't, Lex would be a lesser character.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Yup. "Legacy" stuff regarding Superman has always been relegated to the alternate or imaginary tale arena. He IS the legacy. Well, one thing does count, and that would be the Legion. He's their inspiration so that counts to me. But of course they're not part of Rebirth anyway.

Agreed. Also, had forgotten about the Legion.

Superman doesn't have to go away for Jon to rise and make something of himself.

Yup, pretty much.

And yet there are still more Super sons than Bat sons. I think if the idea can't stay inactive for at least 3 years, it's pretty bona fide. Continuity isn't a perfect excuse since logically, Jon couldn't have come about at any time before now.

Of course, this is ignoring the most obvious character in the Superman legacy, Kara. Taking up the responsibility in the event of his death is absolutely a part of DC legacy. She is his Wally.

Depends on what your definition of "son" is. In the strictly biological sense, we already had Kon-El, and now Jon. In the "legacy" sense, Batman does have far more "sons" than Superman.

As for Kara, again it depends on how you view the issue. Kara was introduced as a female version of Superman.

Not a good question to ask him since he's not killing anyone, if the character does in fact die.

As far as people who are leaving before it even begins and other "hard" questions, you have to remember that he's not a candidate and no one was voting in the first place. "People are jumping ship" isn't something he has any control over so it's pointless to go about making him uncomfortable for it. On the other hand he already has the job and as a professional, he's not obligated to divulge anything. If your job or hobby is to interview people in entertainment, you're not going to get very far asking questions that people can't or won't answer because it's counter productive on both sides. If someone is a storyteller, why would they bother writing a story if they're just going to tell you? And if you have half an hour to get information out, why are you going to ask dead end questions?

Let's agree to disagree. I do think it is a good question. You are very well in the right side by saying a writer won't divulge his or her story to the fans. But that clearly wasn't what I was asking. Suoerman #51 opened with a very clear "hint" regarding what is going to happen to n52 Superman. Unless of course, and like a few others have suggested, they are trying to pull of a new version of All-Star Superman. At any rate, he will be OFF the Superbooks for a while. What I was asking was simply why take that direction. Why remove DC's own creation from the picture, and that "hardly" is asking a writer for their plans.

As a writer, he was given "tools" to work with. And those were PF Superman and Lois (and Jon, which happens to be Jurgens' creation and has clearly said will be a prominent player throughout the main Superbooks), WITHOUT new52 Superman. They MUST have discussed this with editorial, and he at least should know the WHY of removing Earth 0 Kal-El, whether it is forever or just for a while. Besides, even though we really don't know for sure what they're planning to do (which is what you're saying, I believe), the interviews and also the rebirth reveal were not enlightening at all, much less hopeful regarding n52's Superman fate.

EDIT: hell, for all we know he clearly could have had a hand in making that happen.

So, if you were upset about Superman being wiped out from existence when n52 came about, I can also be upset about this Superman being killed off (or whatever) in favor of that other version.

As for the "jumping ship" thing, yes, he obviously has no control over that. However, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It was an obvious question to make. He, Tomasi, Orlando and Yang are being put in charge of a CHANGE in the whole Superman line. Why stay? What are they offering, besides "hey, it's PF Superman! The one who's married to Lois! And now they have a son! It's a great move!"?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

God, this book could scarcely sound more uninteresting. We've literally got a dude steering the line talking about how Superman doing anything too epic or amazing makes it too silly. I wanna wanna wanna love this setup, because it's King S#it of F*ck Mountain beloved Superman married to Lois, and they have son who's Superboy, and the Multiverse is involved, all of which is exactly my jam. But the moment I heard the phrase "he's more than his powers" I knew there was no hope, because while that's an entirely true sentiment, it's also become an unwitting codephrase over the last few years for "expect him not to do anything especially cool or interesting, but I'm not competent enough for any solid character work either, so mostly I'm just going to have people talk about how great he is". God, Jurgens shouldn't frustrate me so much because he's in no way actively bad, merely aggressively mediocre, and apparently he's a nice guy. But he's also basically the symbol for everything that can go wrong for Superman as a character in terms of making him just plain boring as hell on every possible level, and they've given him the keys to the kingdom. It's no wonder Tomasi is writing the Rebirth special; Jurgens may be leading the line, but they at least nominally want to rope in new or returning readers, and Tomasi is the one who's any damn good.

And given he's going out of his way to make clear that this Superman will be the big leader (which buries New 52 Superman even further - fascinatingly, this is basically the Infinite Crisis story of the old version of Superman coming back and not really seeing the new world as up to snuff, except here he's symbolically being treated as right, at least by Jurgens. Which makes him a sensible Superman for a DC built on returning to the 'good old days'), that kills most of the stuff Superlad thought they could do with it in the cradle outside of maybe Trinity, unless different books take different philosophies, which seems unlikely given that Jurgens emphasized interconnectedness. I really can't believe they're taking a premise as gonzo as, essentially, Power Girl replacing Supergirl, making that same basic principle apply to the main character of the entire publishing line, and then going out of their way to make clear that they're going to do nothing interesting whatsoever with it. But then, that's how it's been going for Lois & Clark too.

Exactly. That bugged me as well. For a while now (except for Morrison, Lobdell and maybe Pak) writers are afraid of having Suoerman doing amazing feats because, like Jurgens said, it would look too silly. Nothing further from the truth when the writers know how to write said feat/ character and the stories developed around them.

Also, fair point regarding the Infinite Crisis analogy. Hadn't even crossed my mind until you mentioned it.

It's ironic, right? It would seem that they want to return to the more boy-scout-like version of Supes, but don't want to return to some of the things that very Suoerman did (i.e., feats).

[vasir12]

God, this book could scarcely sound more uninteresting. We've literally got a dude steering the line talking about how Superman doing anything too epic or amazing makes it too silly. I wanna wanna wanna love this setup, because it's King S#it of F*ck Mountain beloved Superman married to Lois, and they have son who's Superboy, and the Multiverse is involved, all of which is exactly my jam. But the moment I heard the phrase "he's more than his powers" I knew there was no hope, because while that's an entirely true sentiment, it's also become an unwitting codephrase over the last few years for "expect him not to do anything especially cool or interesting, but I'm not competent enough for any solid character work either, so mostly I'm just going to have people talk about how great he is". God, Jurgens shouldn't frustrate me so much because he's in no way actively bad, merely aggressively mediocre, and apparently he's a nice guy. But he's also basically the symbol for everything that can go wrong for Superman as a character in terms of making him just plain boring as hell on every possible level, and they've given him the keys to the kingdom. It's no wonder Tomasi is writing the Rebirth special; Jurgens may be leading the line, but they at least nominally want to rope in new or returning readers, and Tomasi is the one who's any damn good.

And given he's going out of his way to make clear that this Superman will be the big leader (which buries New 52 Superman even further - fascinatingly, this is basically the Infinite Crisis story of the old version of Superman coming back and not really seeing the new world as up to snuff, except here he's symbolically being treated as right, at least by Jurgens. Which makes him a sensible Superman for a DC built on returning to the 'good old days'), that kills most of the stuff Superlad thought they could do with it in the cradle outside of maybe Trinity, unless different books take different philosophies, which seems unlikely given that Jurgens emphasized interconnectedness. I really can't believe they're taking a premise as gonzo as, essentially, Power Girl replacing Supergirl, making that same basic principle apply to the main character of the entire publishing line, and then going out of their way to make clear that they're going to do nothing interesting whatsoever with it. But then, that's how it's been going for Lois & Clark too.

Well... there are multiple people writing Superman, not just Jurgens. And he gave no indication that he was the leader of the Superman line. Even then, though, I think you might be misunderstanding him. There's a difference between going full on silver age, and doing an epic story-line. His first arch will include, I'm assuming, space combat, Doomsday, and Lex trying to be Superman. But like I said, he isn't even writing the main Superman title.

[beetee]

I'm really wondering if Johns is going to end up merging characters / histories from pre-flashpoint / Nu52. I think it's the only way this works without "awkward" conversations between SuperDad and the rest of the 52 universe.

[superduperman]

I didn't read through all nine pages so forgive me if this has already been brought up but I kind of wonder if WB corporate isn't mandating this from on high. They have a new movie out and want the comics to align with the new movie. In said movie, Lois and Clark are an item. Now, that isn't to say that they sent someone to guide the transition but if they point blank said "Get Lois and Clark back together!" then it would make sense to use the version that already is together than force some elaborate excuse for the main versions to hook up with Lois after establishing he is in a relationship with WW for the last three years or so. And keep in mind, Henry Cavill isn't exactly in his twenties anymore. So there's that.

As for Jurgens not liking the New Superman, it's already been established that he was left out of a lot of the creative decisions in regards to world building that Morrison was doing and had his hands tied a lot but was still forced to go along with what Morrison had established. So I'm guessing there was a lot of catch up involved that he had no say in. I can see why that would leave a bad taste in his mouth. That having been said, to simply jettison the New Superman and just assume that all fans will just accept it is an odd approach to be certain. As for asking "tough questions" keep in mind that he, or anyone associated with DC, might not be allowed to answer said questions. Especially if Warners is being heavy handed about things. I am of the opinion that they aren't just getting rid of New Superman and but are holding him in reserve until they can, quite frankly, figure out how to fix him.

But that comes with a danger. If Superdad really does catch on again, and they leave New Superman out of his own book for too long, it becomes harder to bring him back. It still seems odd to simply not acknowledge him and just assume fans will be okay with that. At least give us a hint that he is still alive somewhere. All of this is very odd given that Superman was one of the main reasons for the reboot back in 2011 to begin with. We basically lost the JSA for this version of Superman and now he's gone too. I honestly don't think DC knows what to do with Superman anymore. Testing out the waters on a "Superdad" seems like a new approach.

As for what I will do personally, I will still pick up things like Earth One but that's probably it for me in terms of DC. It's obvious they don't know what they are doing with the character and barring some top down firings, that probably isn't going to change. If you were to make a list of all the things I thought they'd do with the Super-books a year ago, bringing back the old version wasn't even on the list. They are clearly out in left field in terms of ideas. I will get the Rebirth one shot and see if that answers a few questions but I'm done with monthlies.

[Kuwagaton]

Depends on what your definition of "son" is. In the strictly biological sense, we already had Kon-El, and now Jon. In the "legacy" sense, Batman does have far more "sons" than Superman.

As for Kara, again it depends on how you view the issue. Kara was introduced as a female version of Superman.

Kon is not a son, he's a clone. Created without consent with an interchangeable second DNA set, with no obligation to regard Kal a certain way or submit to his authority. Which wasn't impressed on him anyway. But yeah, absolutely he's still a part of the legacy.

Kara was not a female Superman, she was considerably younger with no clue about her powers or the world around her. She was, when not the child Linda Lee, Supergirl under his authority with no outside presence barring a situation where Kal was compromised. His "secret weapon. "

Let's agree to disagree. I do think it is a good question. You are very well in the right side by saying a writer won't divulge his or her story to the fans. But that clearly wasn't what I was asking.

My main point was that you don't see these questions asked of incoming creators almost anywhere, but I'm fine agreeing to disagree.

[manofsteel1979]

I think Superduper is onto something, and really it's the only explanation that makes sense. Warners execs probably wanted Superman to reflect his film self and let's face it, preFlashpoint was much closer to that than New 52 is. As illogical as some of Didio and Lee's decisions have been, I don't think something like this originated from them given how obsessed they seemed with undoing the Super Marriage and side lining Lois Lane, and now suddenly they do a 180 degree turn? Doesn't smell right.

[misslane]

Well... there are multiple people writing Superman, not just Jurgens. And he gave no indication that he was the leader of the Superman line. Even then, though, I think you might be misunderstanding him. There's a difference between going full on silver age, and doing an epic story-line. His first arch will include, I'm assuming, space combat, Doomsday, and Lex trying to be Superman. But like I said, he isn't even writing the main Superman title.

Plus, Tomasi's recent Superman #51 was very well received, yet it wasn't epic in the Silver Agey sense; it was pretty down to earth. I also think epic and amazing can come in many different forms and not all of those forms are guaranteed to be good. One could say that Truth was epic, but that didn't equate to good. Lobdell could do epic, and I thought his work was terrible. I don't know what to expect with this new direction or with Jurgens specifically. However, to me anything is better than what we were getting, which often felt like a long line of convoluted and cruel stories that only occasionally would have something poignant and wonderful to offer.

[manofsteel1979]

Plus, Tomasi's recent Superman #51 was very well received, yet it wasn't epic in the Silver Agey sense; it was pretty down to earth. I also think epic and amazing can come in many different forms and not all of those forms are guaranteed to be good. One could say that Truth was epic, but that didn't equate to good. Lobdell could do epic, and I thought his work was terrible. I don't know what to expect with this new direction or with Jurgens specifically. However, to me anything is better than what we were getting, which often felt like a long line of convoluted and cruel stories that only occasionally would have something poignant and wonderful to offer.

Yes I mostly agree with your sentiments, I'm attempting to be causiously optimistic especially after #51, but that only proves that the New 52 Superman could have easily been salvaged and steered to a more traditional take on the character without disenfranchising a group of fans yet again. Which is why I have to think this was mandated at a place above the editorial team at DC Comics.